Altium Price Rises

[EEVblog]

Email to customers.

Thank you for being an Altium customer. We appreciate your business, and we hope you are creating some of your best PCB designs yet.

I’m contacting you to let you know about Altium pricing changes that will be coming up in July. As we are all aware, market conditions are driving up costs for businesses worldwide. Unfortunately, Altium is no exception. Due to increasing costs, prices on Altium products will be increasing on July 1, 2022.

We understand that price increases are never ideal and we try to avoid them as much as possible. We also always try to make them as modest as possible. Please know that we are 100% committed to delivering the world’s best PCB design experience, and as a result of this increase, we will be able to continue to invest in Altium Designer, Altium 365, and all of our products that empower you and your teams to deliver outstanding electronics designs.
 
Because the increase goes into effect on July 1, all orders placed before then will be honored at today’s rates. If you have any current or foreseen needs, I would be happy to discuss options for locking in today’s pricing now.

I get that inflation is happening, but what "costs" are increasing for a 100% software company like Altium?

[ataradov]

Salaries are probably the biggest part. And just grabbing some extra cash while you can does not hurt either, I guess.

They know that some people have their stuff deeply in the design process and the cost of switching is high, so they can do whatever they want to an extent.

[SpacedCowboy]

Glad I just bought a permanent license

[Bud]

Can we expect this type of apology from Altium

https://youtu.be/VC66uGR2WFo

[free_electron]

They have a bunch of developers in Ukraine .... get it ?

[EEVblog]

They have a bunch of developers in Ukraine .... get it ?

Last I heard the majority of the PCB group was in the Ukraine. I wonder how they are doing?
They went there after the China debacle.

[EEVblog]

Salaries are probably the biggest part. And just grabbing some extra cash while you can does not hurt either, I guess.
They know that some people have their stuff deeply in the design process and the cost of switching is high, so they can do whatever they want to an extent.

Yep, I expect salires are by far the biggest cost. Would be interesting to know how much it's actually increased.
Pure software companies are usually in a way better position to control and hold prices than hardware companies are.
Never let a good crisis go to waste of course.
Not sure why they even bothered to email customers, don't Altium prices go up and down like a yo-yo anyway?

[voltsandjolts]

My sub/maintenance for perpetual license is due this month, it's up to GBP1700+VAT. Hmm.
As noted above, they may well have extra costs due to business disruption in Ukraine.
If they are indeed supporting jobs there, it makes me inclined to renew.

[JPortici]

The whole diptrace team is based in ukraine  but AFAIK they haven't updated the pricing nor stopped developing (developing process has slowed down for obvious reasons)

[jeremy]

Not sure why they even bothered to email customers, don't Altium prices go up and down like a yo-yo anyway?

I would say in recent memory it has been only “yo” rather than “yo-yo”

With respect to the email, although the inflation is real, I don’t think they really care that much about informing their customers of price rises. It is more of a sneaky sales tactic I think; I have seen many companies do this throughout COVID.

Basically, announce that prices are going up at a certain date, encourage people to buy in before that date to save money, ie an appeal to FOMO. Only catch is that I’ve seen a bunch of companies do sales a few months later at the original price…

[tszaboo]

I got the info that the subscription is a 5% increase, which is below inflation. IMHO it's OK, since someone else is paying for it, and the subscription price was some made up number in the first place.

[ajb]

I get that inflation is happening, but what "costs" are increasing for a 100% software company like Altium?

Well, one of their sales reps told me that the US$4k subscription lapse penalty is because that's just what it "costs" to add users back to the subscription server (OW, updating a row in a database?) so I'm not sure there's any strong correlation between costs and price where Altium is concerned.

I would hope that the real answer is developer salaries, but as a user that doesn't mean much if the end product doesn't show any apparent development in the parts that matter to me.

[jc101]

I'll probably drop out of maintenance when it expires in December, I'll download the full installer just before it expires and stick with that.  Just too expensive to keep going.

[JohnG]

This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.

John

[Doctorandus_P]

I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes.

If you run into trouble, lots of friendly people on the KiCad forum:
https://forum.kicad.info/
And if you wish, there is even commercial support available:
https://www.kipro-pcb.com/

[thm_w]

This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.

John

Do you have a license already?

I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

[free_electron]

This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.

John

Do you have a license already?

I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

Altium licenses are perpetual. The subscription is only so you keep getting updates. When subscription stops you are frozen at the last version/service pack you paid for. it keeps working.

[SpacedCowboy]

Altium licenses are perpetual. The subscription is only so you keep getting updates. When subscription stops you are frozen at the last version/service pack you paid for. it keeps working.

Really ? Because that’s not how the rep explained it to me. A yearly subscription is about $4k, and expires after 1 year. The perpetual license is ~$11k, and includes 1 year of subs that doesn’t stop working after a year, but you don’t get updates past that year unless you pay for another yearly subs.

I’m pretty sure you don’t have to buy the initial permanent license - you can just keep paying $4k/year and it’ll stop working on the 12 month anniversary… I’ll be very annoyed if I’ve just coughed up $12k when $4k would get me the same end result…

[EEVblog]

This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.

John

Do you have a license already?

I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

Altium licenses are perpetual. The subscription is only so you keep getting updates. When subscription stops you are frozen at the last version/service pack you paid for. it keeps working.

I'm currently locked out of Altium Designer because my license expired.

[jeremy]

a "friend" of mine had a "perpetual" license for Altium but no subscription. Altium changed some of their server side stuff with respect to parts searching that broke in older versions of Altium. The support response was basically just "oh your subscription ran out? money please"

[Gerhard_dk4xp]

I did it the other way around, 2016,  file-based -eternal

Me:   My AD is crashing here during start-up. DID work yesterday.
AD:  You have a paid subscription, but we won't help you since you are running VMware.
         They cannot handle networks.
Me:   Looks like I have to help myself.  [ take a new virtual machine from Backup disk ]
AD:   [ a few months later ]    It's time for the next 1600 €!
Me:   No!

It turned out that I had renamed an old library from .lib to .schlib to free the extension
.lib for association with a different program.

VMware CAN do networks. It is their core business.
AD makes not even the slightest plausibility checks when reading files.

I just witnessed a spam campaign before the end of the second quarter to renew.
The wording is as if I had no valid license. I renewed in 2020 to note that
everything is different, new bugs, tries to link me to their cloud but nothing that
is of interest to me. Cancelled again.

Gerhard

[PKTKS]

It sounds to me like CLOUD besides meaning someone's else RACK now mean someone's else pockets as well

Paul

[nctnico]

So my main concern is what grim fate may befall to people without subscriptions but "perpetual" licenses if at some point Altium goes out of business, gets sold, or otherwise fails to keep up the cloud licensing system.

Isn't that the other way around? With a perpetual license you are safe; software won't stop working. Even better would be to have a dongle like Orcad has. But you can likely get a cracked copy in case your computer breaks and Altium isn't available to transfer the license to a different machine.

[JohnG]

Do you have a license already?

I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

We have a number of licenses. Our company is growing, and our usage has been increasing.

If you want or need any flexibility at all, you pay more. Want to move a license, you pay. Want to keep your versions sync'd, you upgrade. What's that, you didn't pay back maintenance? Oh, then you can pay all the annual back maintenance, then pay even more to upgrade. Want some flexibility, pay more for a floating license. What's that, you want to use your floating license at a remote site? That'll cost you more! Overseas, even more again!! Got a problem, found a bug? You're doing it wrong...

Maybe sticking to an old perpetual licensed version of Altium works in your situation, but it doesn't work for us.

John

[Jester]

Years ago we had a well known Ivy League marketing consultant spend a few days at our company to give the engineering management a crash course on marketing. One of the first things he told us was that we had to get the idea out of our heads that the selling price of something has any relationship to the cost of producing / developing / providing the product or service. The selling price is simply what the market is willing to pay.

[Ice-Tea]

I'll probably drop out of maintenance when it expires in December, I'll download the full installer just before it expires and stick with that.  Just too expensive to keep going.

No need for that. You can still download installers and it will work just fine up to the last supported version of the SW.

[jc101]

I'll probably drop out of maintenance when it expires in December, I'll download the full installer just before it expires and stick with that.  Just too expensive to keep going.

No need for that. You can still download installers and it will work just fine up to the last supported version of the SW.

I tend to keep the last few full off-line installer packages, I do this for a number of bits of software.  I have some dev stuff that doesn't have internet access and full installers are needed for those.
I didn't think you could download without a valid user account, I guess my account will remain but show as out of maintenance - I'll find out in December unless they offer some stunning deal, I won't hold my breath.

[ajb]

What's that, you didn't pay back maintenance? Oh, then you can pay all the annual back maintenance, then pay even more to upgrade.

If it were a matter of only paying the back maintenance fees that would be one thing, but regardless of how long the subscription has been lapsed there is--per the last rep I spoke to around the end of the year--a flat $4k subscription lapse penalty on top of the new subscription fee per seat.  Other software with a subscription support model, like Solidworks, only charges the back maintenance for the lapsed period up to the cost of a new license.  That's entirely fair for a subscription update model as far as I'm concerned, whereas Altium are just being dicks about it because they can.

[thm_w]

We have a number of licenses. Our company is growing, and our usage has been increasing.

If you want or need any flexibility at all, you pay more. Want to move a license, you pay. Want to keep your versions sync'd, you upgrade. What's that, you didn't pay back maintenance? Oh, then you can pay all the annual back maintenance, then pay even more to upgrade. Want some flexibility, pay more for a floating license. What's that, you want to use your floating license at a remote site? That'll cost you more! Overseas, even more again!! Got a problem, found a bug? You're doing it wrong...

Maybe sticking to an old perpetual licensed version of Altium works in your situation, but it doesn't work for us.

John

If you need the latest and greatest Altium version and cloud, then I can't see how Kicad is a viable alternative.

The ALF license I used you just drop it on ANY PC and run it, doesn't matter where it is, or if you installed it somewhere else. Although they have georestricted now as you say, blueskull had to use a VPN to get around that AFAIK.
Maybe they don't sell that licenses type any more, or maybe you have to fight through sales bullshit to get one, don't know.

[JohnG]

If you need the latest and greatest Altium version and cloud, then I can't see how Kicad is a viable alternative.

The ALF license I used you just drop it on ANY PC and run it, doesn't matter where it is, or if you installed it somewhere else. Although they have georestricted now as you say, blueskull had to use a VPN to get around that AFAIK.
Maybe they don't sell that licenses type any more, or maybe you have to fight through sales bullshit to get one, don't know.

I never said we needed the cloud. This not useful to us no matter how hard the sell. Our boards are not complex in the sense of parts and high numbers of nodes, and aside from the database library, KiCad may be enough. We will do a design and find out.

We don't need the latest and greatest for our designs, but if you want to add an Altium license, you have to add the latest and greatest. If you want any support, you have to have to pay for the latest and greatest whether you install it or not. If you have to manage a group of people, it can be a headache to manage multiple versions, because it makes it a lot tougher to keep everyone consistent. When we implemented some consistent design procedures and flow, our manufacturing yield went way up and rework went way down, so we are keeping the process in place.

Also, we are not going to use a VPN to get around the license because it is likely to be illegal, and we won't do that as a company.

Altium has some really nice features, and it could be great. But for our situation, the cost of doing business with them has become painful enough that we will invest some actual resources to evaluate KiCad as an alternative. We know that making a switch will be painful. But our current situation is also painful and shows no sign of getting better. Just the opposite, it appears.

John

[thm_w]

I never said we needed the cloud. This not useful to us no matter how hard the sell. Our boards are not complex in the sense of parts and high numbers of nodes, and aside from the database library, KiCad may be enough. We will do a design and find out.

We don't need the latest and greatest for our designs, but if you want to add an Altium license, you have to add the latest and greatest. If you want any support, you have to have to pay for the latest and greatest whether you install it or not. If you have to manage a group of people, it can be a headache to manage multiple versions, because it makes it a lot tougher to keep everyone consistent. When we implemented some consistent design procedures and flow, our manufacturing yield went way up and rework went way down, so we are keeping the process in place.

Also, we are not going to use a VPN to get around the license because it is likely to be illegal, and we won't do that as a company.

Altium has some really nice features, and it could be great. But for our situation, the cost of doing business with them has become painful enough that we will invest some actual resources to evaluate KiCad as an alternative. We know that making a switch will be painful. But our current situation is also painful and shows no sign of getting better. Just the opposite, it appears.

John

License should support any earlier version, so everyone would run the oldest common build. Paying the maintenance costs was probably not necessary, unless they made a specific deal.  https://digitalsales.altium.com/

If you don't need the features for the price, then that's a different argument, and totally valid now that Kicad is more mature.

[andyturk]

FWIW, in late 2020 I bought a "perpetual" AD license for $4k USD. It allows me to use it one one machine at a time as long as there's an internet connection at startup. I've seen folks recommend using a file-based (.alf) license, but the Altium sales rep said that wasn't a possibility for the kind of license I have.

When they hit me up for subscription $$, I declined. So now I'm stalled at AD21.9.2, but that's fine for my needs. It definitely paid for itself in projects over the first couple of years, so I'm not complaining (much).

The retail price for a full license when I got mine was $9k USD, so they were willing to discount significantly, but it depended on internal Altium sales team horoscopes. I let them know what I was willing to pay and the rep finally contacted me in December (several months later) and said he had approval if I'd give him a credit card number that day over the phone. I didn't appreciate the arm twisting, but got what I wanted.

I run Altium in a Win10 VM on a beefy MacBook Pro (intel) and it's plenty fast. Zooming around with a 3dconnexion mouse is silky smooth with just the integrated GPU.

I have a vastly beefier iMac Pro which I'd hoped to use with Altium, but the same Altium VM crashes the entire imac when I drag components in 2D. It'll start inverting triangles all over the screen and then eventually die with a windowserver watchdog timeout, requiring a hardware reboot. That's a MacOS problem, not an Altium problem. Thanks, Apple. 

[EEVblog]

FWIW, in late 2020 I bought a "perpetual" AD license for $4k USD. It allows me to use it one one machine at a time as long as there's an internet connection at startup. I've seen folks recommend using a file-based (.alf) license, but the Altium sales rep said that wasn't a possibility for the kind of license I have.

When they hit me up for subscription $$, I declined. So now I'm stalled at AD21.9.2, but that's fine for my needs. It definitely paid for itself in projects over the first couple of years, so I'm not complaining (much).

If it works for you at present, then it's still going to be working for you in a decades time.
Unless you are on the corporate coin, or absolutely must have the latest version to client work, there is little incentive to upgrade.

[tszaboo]

FWIW, in late 2020 I bought a "perpetual" AD license for $4k USD. It allows me to use it one one machine at a time as long as there's an internet connection at startup. I've seen folks recommend using a file-based (.alf) license, but the Altium sales rep said that wasn't a possibility for the kind of license I have.

When they hit me up for subscription $$, I declined. So now I'm stalled at AD21.9.2, but that's fine for my needs. It definitely paid for itself in projects over the first couple of years, so I'm not complaining (much).

If it works for you at present, then it's still going to be working for you in a decades time.
Unless you are on the corporate coin, or absolutely must have the latest version to client work, there is little incentive to upgrade.

Probably the latest update was the Draftsman. It really changed the way I am creating technical documentations for the boards, and I truly think it saves me days of work on a yearly basis.
Its perfect to create assembly guides. It is great to mark isolation distances. It is very useful tool.

[EEVblog]

FWIW, in late 2020 I bought a "perpetual" AD license for $4k USD. It allows me to use it one one machine at a time as long as there's an internet connection at startup. I've seen folks recommend using a file-based (.alf) license, but the Altium sales rep said that wasn't a possibility for the kind of license I have.

When they hit me up for subscription $$, I declined. So now I'm stalled at AD21.9.2, but that's fine for my needs. It definitely paid for itself in projects over the first couple of years, so I'm not complaining (much).

If it works for you at present, then it's still going to be working for you in a decades time.
Unless you are on the corporate coin, or absolutely must have the latest version to client work, there is little incentive to upgrade.

Probably the latest update was the Draftsman. It really changed the way I am creating technical documentations for the boards, and I truly think it saves me days of work on a yearly basis.
Its perfect to create assembly guides. It is great to mark isolation distances. It is very useful tool.

And that's the point, you really only need to upgrade when something new like that comes along that improves your workflow. Once you have that and it works, there is no real need to pay for maintenance and minor upgrades.

[boB]

I'm so glad that Eagle works great for my company and will never expire. 

We have many seats so even though it is "legal" for us to use, it is the version just before Autodesk so is plenty good enough most everything we do with it which is quite a lot.

At least I haven't been spoiled by using Altium.

I do miss Pads some times though.

boB

[Hawaka]

Today I got an email from Altium that the price raise for my type of licence (I believe it's on demand, perpetual) will be 12%. Did you all get that info? Will they make different rises depending on licences type?

[SpacedCowboy]

Got the same thing, yes. Since it’s perpetual, I’m guessing it’s the yearly subs that will increase, which for me will be an evaluation based on need, so … meh

[Spark-Doctor]

  Would be interesting to know how much it's actually increased.   

June 2022, if you are in subscription, to renew £1625.00 + VAT. Out of subscription  £3360.00 + VAT
July  2022, if you are in subscription, to renew £1725.00 + VAT. Out of subscription  £3535.00 + VAT

They did offer me 15% discount in June and 20% discount in July but refused to budge on the renewing fee. I declined and stayed with my perpetual license.

[jayk]

Crazy how expensive Altium has become.  I'm paying a little over $2K/yr for PADS Professional.  There's plenty I dislike about it, but it's pretty good for most things and the support is great.  Like any of these tools, once you learn it (which takes a while), you can get things done pretty quickly.  I wonder if Altium is really twice as good.

[thm_w]

PADS is advertised at $3k/year on their website: https://eda.sw.siemens.com/en-US/pcb/pads/professional/
A perpetual license is $9000. Altium almost twice that.

Feature wise it seems to be similar to Altium, maybe some nicer RF stuff. But a lot of those features are rarely used (FPGAs, signal analysis).

https://static.sw.cdn.siemens.com/siemens-disw-assets/public/82839/en-US/Siemens-SW-Is-Your-Pcb-design-tool-up-to-Speed-WP-82839-C1.pdf

[jayk]

They have better pricing for consultants, but navigating their sales org isn't easy.  I'm not sure about the comparison tables in that document... a lot of the stuff they mention is not part of the basic PADS Pro package, and I'm not sure how much extra it costs (again, getting numbers out of the sales org is not easy as a little guy).  In addition to schematic and PCB, the basic PADS Pro includes a version of Hyperlynx that's stripped-down but still fairly useful for basic SI.  I don't think there's any PI included.  I'm not sure about the analog/mixed-signal sim... I generally just use LTSpice for that sort of thing.

[Analog]

They lost me this time. Too many features and products I don't need or want and zero effort on things I do want. I wish I would have dropped off back in Ver 17 and saved the money towards another package.

[johnboxall]

But after price rise and close Altium sales in my country, i can't buy it.

We all know the real reason why Altium closed sales in Russia.
Enjoy KiCAD.

[beanflying]

This weeks reporting.

Tech star Altium Limited (ASX: ALU) rocketed $5.91, or almost 20 per cent, higher to $35.84 after the electronic design software company reported a 57 per cent rise in net profit, to $US55.5 million.

Don't expect a price reduction anytime soon the shareholders need to be happy.

[JohnG]

In the meantime, my employer has been spending time to see if we can move some of our designs to KiCAD. So far, we have transferred one design with some minor issues that were straightforward to resolve.

At the moment, we are looking to see if we can implement our custom DRC rules. Our current rules are there so that we can have floating circuit net classes so that within the floating net class, we can have a low voltage clearance, but everything outside of the floating net class will have a higher voltage clearance (it's for a floating gate drive and some other floating circuitry). It needs to accommodate the IPC rules for outer and inner layers.

If we can implement our rules within the KiCAD environment, there are two remaining hurdles. The first is whether or not we can manage our output files in a semi-automated way (we use outjob files quite a bit) and the second is our desire for the implementation of a database library.

We have been pleasantly surprised at how well it has gone so far. Still a bit to go, though.

John

[pointhi]

In the meantime, my employer has been spending time to see if we can move some of our designs to KiCAD. So far, we have transferred one design with some minor issues that were straightforward to resolve.

At the moment, we are looking to see if we can implement our custom DRC rules. Our current rules are there so that we can have floating circuit net classes so that within the floating net class, we can have a low voltage clearance, but everything outside of the floating net class will have a higher voltage clearance (it's for a floating gate drive and some other floating circuitry). It needs to accommodate the IPC rules for outer and inner layers.

If we can implement our rules within the KiCAD environment, there are two remaining hurdles. The first is whether or not we can manage our output files in a semi-automated way (we use outjob files quite a bit) and the second is our desire for the implementation of a database library.

We have been pleasantly surprised at how well it has gone so far. Still a bit to go, though.

John

Some hints:

• Output Automation: For example https://github.com/INTI-CMNB/kibot
• Database Library PR: https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/merge_requests/1282

[JohnG]

Some hints:

• Output Automation: For example https://github.com/INTI-CMNB/kibot
• Database Library PR: https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/merge_requests/1282

Thanks for the heads up. I know about some of the extensions for output and panelization, and we would not have started down this road if we didn't think we could make it work. We also have a contractor who has some Python capability and has written some simple but very useful scripts to process our Altium outputs (outjob files are nice, but not quite enough).

I knew the work on the database was slated for V7, but it's nice to see the progress  .

John

[Analog]

This weeks reporting.

Tech star Altium Limited (ASX: ALU) rocketed $5.91, or almost 20 per cent, higher to $35.84 after the electronic design software company reported a 57 per cent rise in net profit, to $US55.5 million.

Don't expect a price reduction anytime soon the shareholders need to be happy.

Do not, my friends, become addicted to profit. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!     -Immortan Joe

[ajawamnet]

They recently released a new 3-tier subscription thing. They removed Multiboard from the "standard" tier.  This clown they have running the marketing ship's gotta go   https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/subscription  I really don't use multiboard - it's hard enough to get Altium to do a single PCB correctly with minimal bugs...

[ajb]

They recently released a new 3-tier subscription thing. They removed Multiboard from the "standard" tier.  This clown they have running the marketing ship's gotta go   https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/subscription  I really don't use multiboard - it's hard enough to get Altium to do a single PCB correctly with minimal bugs...

Hmm, I wonder what the price tiers are like.  I could live with the standard features if the price point for that was reasonable--say a few hundred bucks a year, assuming enterprise will be at the current ~2k/yr?

EDIT: according to the online chat the Standard tier is US$1995 and pro is US$2990, so lol nope.  It boggles my mind how they can justify gutting so many features from the standard tier for that amount of money.

[thm_w]

If they removed multiboard and made Standard cheaper that would be fair enough. But we all know that doesn't happen.

And they are straight up saying: if you pay less your support will be worse, and have lower priority, lol.

Hmm, I wonder what the price tiers are like.  I could live with the standard features if the price point for that was reasonable--say a few hundred bucks a year, assuming enterprise will be at the current ~2k/yr?

EDIT: according to the online chat the Standard tier is US$1995 and pro is US$2990, so lol nope.  It boggles my mind how they can justify gutting so many features from the standard tier for that amount of money.

The price is listed right on the website, but maybe you got a discounted version.
$4k and $5k USD.

[ajb]

The price is listed right on the website, but maybe you got a discounted version.
$4k and $5k USD.

Ahh, I didn't see that you could select an option and see the pricing openly now.  Kinda nice that they don't hide it I guess?  Anyway the pricing the chat bot gave me was for the subscription only, not counting a license.  So it'd be US$2-3k *on top of* a perpetual license.  Which brings up another question: so if you bought a perpetual license for a version that included multiboard, and then don't pay for the Pro sub, I guess you just...lose that feature?

Also the Pro tier includes "Multi-Site License usage (Geo Scope)", not sure what that is, but I wonder if it intersects with what they used to call floating licenses?  Shouldn't a subscription-based software license inherently be multi-site, since presumably you'd need to be logged in to validate the license anyway?

[thm_w]

They have some crazy license restrictions where you can't buy a license in one country and use it in another.
Usually this is because of heavy discounts in certain countries (eg Russia and China) where they believe either: competition is higher, or pirated use is higher. But since Mr Blue is not around any more I'm not sure if anyone can comment on that.

Global licenses can be used wherever you are in the world. With On-Demand and Private Server licensing, this geographical assignment allows your company to share a license or seats of a license throughout all of your locations.

When one of your teams is ending their workday, another team across the world can use those same licenses. Licenses must be released before being shared. The result is optimized license utilization and flexibility for your business.

[Black Phoenix]

Usually this is because of heavy discounts in certain countries (eg Russia and China) where they believe either: competition is higher, or pirated use is higher. But since Mr Blue is not around any more I'm not sure if anyone can comment on that.

Second one. I'm yet to see a company in China that have official licencing of any software. Last one I do some work for, Windows, Office, Solidworks, Photoshop and PCB solution was all cracked versions. Same with most personal computers at home.

Except if it is a laptop or a desktop bought from Dell or Lenovo or any SI, all software is cracked since there are no laws against it here or are not enforced. The Chinese call it "Sharing".

That's also applied to any product that is copied into oblivion with different brands selling the same thing, just changing the logo or some physical lines.

[ajawamnet]

The IP lawyers here in D.C. told me it's called "Efficient Infringement"

[dastructhm]

I always wonder the meaning of the word "Altium". Does anyone know?

[EEVblog]

I always wonder the meaning of the word "Altium". Does anyone know?

They inherited rights to the name from someone, I think it was one of the companies they have bought over the years. When looking for a new company name they realised they already had right to one that was pretty unique.

[EEVblog]

And they are straight up saying: if you pay less your support will be worse, and have lower priority, lol.

A lot of people would actually be happy with that tradeoff.

[thm_w]

And they are straight up saying: if you pay less your support will be worse, and have lower priority, lol.

A lot of people would actually be happy with that tradeoff.

Absolutely, if there was a cost savings.
I probably should have worded it instead as: pay the regular amount and we admit to giving you poor support at the lowest priority. Pay us more to queue jump.

[labnet]

I've just been on the renewal treadmill for our 5 licenses.

Here's something new
Quote, 'it will not be possible to Reactivate lapsed subscriptions from January 2023'
Sounds like a veiled threat.
Prices are now AUD15k for perm licence, $2200/annum subs.
I remember when it used to AUD5k!

[Hydron]

They want GBP 2k + VAT now for continuing our subscription, 21% more than last year! Only paid about 4k+VAT for the perpetual license (inc. the first year of subs) in the first place ~2 years ago. AUD2200 is an absolute bargain compared to that! (Is that discounted for number of seats?)

Time to seriously think about whether updates are worth the money, even given the whole no-reactivation thing (and a new perpetual license being 10k!).

[mooreaa]

My renewal was going up $100 each year. Last year was $1995 for Standard. This year they are wanting $2495. Quite the jump.

[EEVblog]

My renewal was going up $100 each year. Last year was $1995 for Standard. This year they are wanting $2495. Quite the jump.

Those share dividends don't pay for themslves.

[Kean]

It's amazing how much effort they've made in calling & emailing me recently to try get me to reactivate...

[Ice-Tea]

Same here. Call every two weeks.

[tszaboo]

It's amazing how much effort they've made in calling & emailing me recently to try get me to reactivate...

Did you already get the threats that you need to pay more if you want to come back?

[Kean]

Did you already get the threats that you need to pay more if you want to come back?

 

[Ice-Tea]

It's amazing how much effort they've made in calling & emailing me recently to try get me to reactivate...

Did you already get the threats that you need to pay more if you want to come back?

I want to let you know that the program for reactivating the subscription for your Altium Designer perpetual license(s) ends in 2023.

If you don’t reactivate your subscription before the program ends, you won’t get the latest version of Altium Designer and other subscription benefits without having to purchase a new perpetual license. However, we have a special offer you can take advantage of now.

If you reactivate your subscription now you’ll get 14 months total subscription time. This is an opportunity to save up to EUR 10,050 when compared to buying a new Altium Designer license.

[Gerhard_dk4xp]

+1

Got another one of these today. The program should end  December last year.
Seems they could not persuade a lot of people.

Gerhard

[floobydust]

Who's paying for the failed products? $millions on development and now they sit and rot, orphaned. What an absolute waste of resources and money.
The bonehead that came up with the failed products needs a toss. Imagine all the bug fixes and killer features they could have added to AD.
"Altium has flexed its pricing power in the six months to December 31, offsetting headwinds and helping the electronic design software business maintain its full-year guidance of 15 per cent to 20 per cent revenue growth."
When your only corporate strategy is to jack up prices 

[Ice-Tea]

What ticks me off even more at this point is that the"standard" tier license is now site-locked. I kinda wonder what tier I would get if I reactivated my license? I mean, site-locked is a total non-starter for me. I work from home, my office, the office of customers, holliday locations, my inlaws place, a roadside restaurant, whatever.

 

[EEVblog]

What ticks me off even more at this point is that the"standard" tier license is now site-locked. I kinda wonder what tier I would get if I reactivated my license? I mean, site-locked is a total non-starter for me. I work from home, my office, the office of customers, holliday locations, my inlaws place, a roadside restaurant, whatever.
 

Yeah, that's dumb, that would also be a total non-starter for me too.

[EEVblog]

Who's paying for the failed products? $millions on development and now they sit and rot, orphaned. What an absolute waste of resources and money.
The bonehead that came up with the failed products needs a toss. Imagine all the bug fixes and killer features they could have added to AD.
"Altium has flexed its pricing power in the six months to December 31, offsetting headwinds and helping the electronic design software business maintain its full-year guidance of 15 per cent to 20 per cent revenue growth."
When your only corporate strategy is to jack up prices 

That's nothing. Altium spent more than a decade focussing the company on FPGA's and hardware (I was part fo the hardware group for 4 years). The PCB package literally became "optional extra", I'm not kidding. The result was the share price declined from $5 to 10 cents and stayed there until the founder was booted out in a hostile takeover by his mate who he bailed out by buying his company at an insane premium whcih gave him enough votes to boot him out 

[floobydust]

Altium users are once again subsidizing corporate waste and idiocy 
"full-year guidance of 15 per cent to 20 per cent revenue growth" based on nothing added? OUCH. All the energy goes into pricing strategy instead of bug fixes/new features. Sigh.

I find 95% of managers, marketing, executives, CEO's are actually clueless about what they are managing, having never i.e. done a schematic and PC board from end-end.
Then they focus on catering to investors, and it becomes a milking a cow that died a while back and isn't chewing much cud.

[trevwhite]

Altium very generously just offered me a renewal fee of £2120 + VAT for the year. It’s 90 days before it’s due so I think they were preparing me for the shock. They just hike it up every year without any real justification.  It’s not a small hike at around a 30% increase on last year which was a 30% increase on previous year.


I am fed up with constant money grabbing from them. I am extremely reluctant to give them any more money. I will not renew again I think. Current version does what I need.

[jc101]

I was quite frank with them about the maintenance price of my permanent licence, which was that it was unaffordable.  Plus the new policy that if you don't keep the maintenance up and want back in, you must buy another full-price licence.  I was officially told that at the time of my renewal.  They offered a small discount presented as a "great deal".

In the end I offered them a "this is what I can afford, take it or leave it" counter offer just on the renewal date.  This was true at the time, as customers hadn't paid up so cash was tight.  I was happy to let it lapse if they didn't accept, but they did.  So it cost comfortably under 50% of what they offered.  If was accept that or nothing.

Being a small company helped I think.  I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago.  So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

[SiliconWizard]

EDA vendors/distributors usually have a very wide margin for negotiating fees. I have done that in the past with Zuken Cadstar as well, and had cut the renewal fee to less than 1/3 the initial offering.
But yes being a small company definitely helps.

[beenosam]

What's the possible lowest price one could even get for Altium now? The price used to be high but still reasonable, but now for a permanent license it is absolutely ridiculous.

[johnboxall]

What's the possible lowest price one could even get for Altium now? The price used to be high but still reasonable, but now for a permanent license it is absolutely ridiculous.

Try treating it like buying a car before COVID (you know exactly what you want, and how much to pay - you offer $x or walk out).

Have your figure in mind, wait until the end of the month and send sales an email ... "I have my credit card in my hand - call me back if you can do it for $x a month/perpetual and I'll pay over the phone today."

[EEVblog]

Being a small company helped I think.  I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago.  So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

Their entire business model relies on that.

[Doctorandus_P]

I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago.  So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

I like KiCad quite a lot, but I don't know whether it has "sufficient" usability for you. It also has quite decent importers  for altium schematics and PCB's, and I'm sure that if a bunch of altium users would gang up and pay a fraction of what they are used to for altium to commercial support for KiCad, then I am sure any lasting converter issues will be resolved quite quickly.

[jc101]

Being a small company helped I think.  I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago.  So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

Their entire business model relies on that.

Which seems to be the problem.  There doesn't seem to be any consistency in how their sales model works, and it appears to be becoming ever more draconian as time passes.

I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago.  So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

I like KiCad quite a lot, but I don't know whether it has "sufficient" usability for you. It also has quite decent importers  for altium schematics and PCB's, and I'm sure that if a bunch of altium users would gang up and pay a fraction of what they are used to for altium to commercial support for KiCad, then I am sure any lasting converter issues will be resolved quite quickly.

I've looked at KiCad, the problem is going through the pain barrier again. 

I'm not a heavy user by any means, but when I do get into a project, I can get things done pretty quickly.  KiCad could probably do most of what I need if I spent the time going through everything.  I have a permanent Altium licence, so at the moment, that isn't time well spent.  I suspect when I finally drop the maintenance renewal, I will look at running them in parallel for a period.  Then eventually make the switch.  If I were on a subscription licence things would be different.

[asmi]

I got a quote for 3K CAD (+tax) for my update sub extension of my permanent license, which is about 20% higher than what it was last year, though part of that increase is undoubtedly weaker CAD.

[VK3DRB]

Altium is risking going down the same road as IBM with Microchannel Architecture. Superior architecture, but IBM got too greedy with licensing fees for hardware manufacturers who basically told IBM to get stuffed, and they manufactured PC's using the PCI bus instead. OS/2 was a similar story but it plagued with high prices and dreadful marketing by the IBM dinosaur, compared to Microsoft and Windows.

As KiCad or Eagle improves, then Altium better watch its back. Also, after failing to buy Altium, Autodesk is getting in on the act and will become a tough competitor over time. I think the PCBA CAD market will be very different in 10 years or even sooner if Altium does not make its software and subscription prices reasonable for all and sundry.

[Karel]

Also, after failing to buy Altium, Autodesk is getting in on the act and will become a tough competitor over time.

You'r kidding, aren't you? Eagle is dead.

[thm_w]

Also, after failing to buy Altium, Autodesk is getting in on the act and will become a tough competitor over time.

You'r kidding, aren't you? Eagle is dead.

Discussed in the other thread, when people say Eagle, they probably meant the current fusion360 PCB tool. Which doesn't have its own name..
Its terrible currently, but could get better, and could easily compete at the low end where Altium has dropped support ($50/month for f360 vs $380+/month).

[VK3DRB]

Also, after failing to buy Altium, Autodesk is getting in on the act and will become a tough competitor over time.

You'r kidding, aren't you? Eagle is dead.

Discussed in the other thread, when people say Eagle, they probably meant the current fusion360 PCB tool. Which doesn't have its own name..
Its terrible currently, but could get better, and could easily compete at the low end where Altium has dropped support ($50/month for f360 vs $380+/month).

The Autodesk product may well improve rapidly, because of the calibre of those behind Fusion 360. Even so, if they don't have good experienced electronics engineers at the helm driving the development, they are wasting their time.

The definition of what low-end is these days is blurred. Maybe low-end CAD is not having harnesses, impedance control on differential pair routing or powerful design rules. Or maybe only up to 6 layers and PCB size limitations. Or maybe low-end is putting up with slow routing speeds and bugs in complicated designs.

Altium still has bugs of course but they seen fewer these days. But the old saying still holds, "It is doesn't have bugs, it isn't Altium."

[EEVblog]

Altium is risking going down the same road as IBM with Microchannel Architecture. Superior architecture, but IBM got too greedy with licensing fees for hardware manufacturers who basically told IBM to get stuffed, and they manufactured PC's using the PCI bus instead. OS/2 was a similar story but it plagued with high prices and dreadful marketing by the IBM dinosaur, compared to Microsoft and Windows.

Altium has always gone up and down in price.
I can remember being in the staff canteen at Frenches Forest when Nick Martin gathered everyone together and announced that they were slashing the price by 75%, permanately.
The CEO at the time thought that was dumb and left soon after that.
of course, it was back up to the orignal price within a year or something.
The current price of AUD$475/month is actually less than it was back in those days, which was about US$10k IIRC (reduced to $2500 with the 75% cut)
Sure it's a different monthly format, but huge numbers of users upgraded yearly anyway.

[trevwhite]

Well I am fed up with the pricing being all over the place. Altium is marketing heavy. They sent me a renewal offer three months before its due. Some kind of strategy to begin the negotiations. I have never really known anything like it but I will offer them a figure this year. They can take it or leave it but I ain’t paying silly money just because they integrated GitHub into their cad software. It’s a nice feature but I can do that myself really with the git desktop app.

[Ice-Tea]

Remember how last year we were threatened we would never get back on subscription if we didn't pay up right there and then? Well, to the surprise of not a single person on this planet or at least this board: they are changing their policies.

Don't let it hinder your momentum. Our new Restart Policy ensures that licenses that expired no more than three years ago can get back on subscription.

[trevwhite]

What does the policy state? Is there a financial penalty to pay?

[Ice-Tea]

I'm guessing officially the same as before: pay the backlog of subscription fees. But there's no additional information.

[trevwhite]

Thay have started adding subscription based features too. The pro subscription has constraint manager for example. 

[EEVblog]

Record high Altium share price 

[mikehoopes]

This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.

John

Do you have a license already?

I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

Altium licenses are perpetual. The subscription is only so you keep getting updates. When subscription stops you are frozen at the last version/service pack you paid for. it keeps working.

I'm currently locked out of Altium Designer because my license expired.

Old thread, but I figured this may be an ongoing concern. I’ve worked with many an expired AD subscription (we’ve let a portion of our seats lapse over the years), and I suspect the only way one gets “locked out” is if they update the client. Even if you’re off subscription, AD will cue the user to perform software updates. They can be installed, but won’t function without a current subscription.