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Altium REJECTS takeover bid from Autodesk

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dunkemhigh:

--- Quote ---Best out of it
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I'm sure more than a few here would agree with you.

nigelwright7557:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 21, 2021, 09:48:13 am ---
--- Quote ---Best out of it
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I'm sure more than a few here would agree with you.

--- End quote ---

This is the reason why Microsoft systems (Windows etc) are so bloated and complicated.
Its to stop other companies competing.
Having said that sometimes a competitor pops out of the woodwork like Linux.

tooki:

--- Quote from: nigelwright7557 on January 23, 2022, 06:38:01 pm ---This is the reason why Microsoft systems (Windows etc) are so bloated and complicated.
Its to stop other companies competing.
Having said that sometimes a competitor pops out of the woodwork like Linux.

--- End quote ---
Oof. A lot to unpack here, since it’s all wrong.

Much of the “bloat” and “complication” are there to ensure backward compatibility with existing software and systems, something which Microsoft generally places an extremely high value on, because it’s something enterprise customers care about deeply. (Microsoft arguably takes backward compatibility to an unhealthy extreme.)

A lot of other “bloat” is to support things that are necessary. Just because you don’t need a feature doesn’t mean that having it is “bloat”. As a really simple example, text handling code, and the fonts we use, have become significantly “heavier” over the past 30 years. But it’s for a really good reason: properly supporting languages that aren’t covered in 7-bit ASCII. (The old solution of ASCII code pages sucked.) Unicode is much, much harder to support correctly, requiring a lot of code to cover how to handle it. For English, there’s little obvious value. For other languages, the benefits are immense.

Linux didn’t “pop out of the woodwork”, it was the alignment of the stars of a good open source kernel with the already mature GNU toolset. And frankly, Linux has hardly made a dent in Windows as a desktop OS, despite years of it being “ready for the desktop, for real this time!”. (The Mac has, however, made significant inroads over the past decade.) So whether it’s even truly a competitor is debatable IMHO.

Web servers were never predominantly Windows based — Apache was the leader for the longest time, now nginx is top, and Microsoft’s IIS (whose market share peaked in 2007) has dwindled to just a few percent. Linux was never really the “newcomer” in the web server market, it’s essentially always been the leader.

T3sl4co1l:

--- Quote from: tooki on March 09, 2022, 08:42:25 pm ---Linux didn’t “pop out of the woodwork”, it was the alignment of the stars of a good open source kernel with the already mature GNU toolset. And frankly, Linux has hardly made a dent in Windows as a desktop OS, despite years of it being “ready for the desktop, for real this time!”. (The Mac has, however, made significant inroads over the past decade.) So whether it’s even truly a competitor is debatable IMHO.

--- End quote ---

It's not; and, as far as I can tell, never will be.  Over the weekend, I decided to dedicate a day or two puttering around with an old laptop I have that dual-boots into Debian, 9 Stretch I think.  Some casual observations:
- There's a lot of gibberish scrolling by during startup.  Am I supposed to be reading this?  I see occasional warnings, missing stuff, etc.  If there's a problem, how would I diagnose it?
- This thing hasn't booted in forever, I'm sure it's in need of updates.  Hmm, nothing seems to be going automatically though.  And I don't see a "update OS" button in the settings manager, or whatever I can tell are the nearest equivalents of that.  Matter of fact, I don't see an "update" on ANY application at all.  How, uh... just how secure is this supposed to be if there's no updates for anything, ever, anywhere..?
- I'd like to do some simple embedded dev on this thing.  Okay, so I need my toolchain.  Code::Blocks is cross platform, no problem there.  I guess it's not available via package manager, so download it.
- The files don't... "run".  They're just .deb archives.  What do?
- Okay, so almost everything pipes through apt-get, or similar package managers.  Oh also dpkg is what runs the .deb's.  Surely -- surely -- there would be a simple GUI wrapper for these, that's obviously titled, and prominently placed on the system menu?  I guess there's reason why xterm is prominently placed, but... c'mon... seriously?  Fuck is the point of booting up X if I have to memorize every magic incantation anyway?

And none of which are discoverable or obvious, so it's all searching for what to do.  Maybe there's mans on the HDD already, I don't know.  For sure, no one suggests looking at them.  Google is the holy oracle of all.  Good thing the Wifi connection "Just Works".

Discoverability is such a manifestly important goal of UX.  There isn't a single video game in the top 100 that doesn't do this.  Lead the player/user into what they need, or are most likely to need.  And automate all the piddling work for them.  (Or don't, depending on what kind of game it is; but generally, users aren't coming to an OS to play gnuClicker or whatever the equivalent would be.)

So I run some apt-get updates, upgrades, start getting some things installed that I need.  We're like 6 hours in at this point.  Having trouble locating python.  I want version 3.8 specifically, so I know it's compatible with the toolchain on my desktop.  Nope, doesn't exist, it thinks I mean some postgresql bullshit.  Nearest I can tell, the default distro does not offer specific versions.  I find it on another one (a quick search turns up dozens of sources).  I enter it by name, no good.  It does suggest adding servers to my sources.list.  Seems straightforward enough, sudo a text editor, paste it in and go.

Also, all along the way there's confusion about dependencies.  Because why would anything be easy.  Apparently you have to --fix-missing and such, and also there's a -R to install a bunch of packages in a directory in the right order.

Anyway, I finally find python and get it installing.  Text box (less).  Some deep sounding (libc6) package has a critical security update so it won't install it for me.  Or the new version is incompatible with what else I have on here.  Fine?  Q out, process finishes.  Fine, I'll just get a new version of that I guess.  Hey, why isn't sudo working anymore?  Why isn't... anything working anymore?  Reboot, maybe it's just gotten confused.  Linux is supposed to be famous for changing out whole kernel modules at run time, I don't know why this should help, but y'know, computers?  Hmm, X isn't even coming up.  It blinks a bunch then gives up and stops.  Rebooting into the "advanced" and "recovery" options doesn't make a difference.  Look up how to get a console.  Won't even login with any usernames I know.  Did... did apt-get just fucking brick the whole goddamned computer?

So I booted into Win10 the next day, and in the span of a couple hours, got most everything installed, including Code::Blocks running avr-gcc on a successful build of a recent project.  Still a slow and bothersome process, but most of it Just Works(TM).  No package hell, Installer just does the one complete configuration it's made for.  Or just dump it in some folder somewhere and run it, who cares.  Most of all, the OS doesn't let me, just, you know, fucking delete system32, as they say.


So, all this just to explain:

Even for a user who has general knowledge about computer systems,

Linux is still a piece of shit.

I'm not asking for advice; I know what I'd need to do to fix that.  Maybe it can be fixed from Windows, maybe run an installer, maybe flash a USB bootdisk.  I don't know how much that's going to wipe, if it can patch whatever fucked up in the kernel, or if I have to go through all that torture again just to get back to where I was.  I know I can look up a hundred different resources to figure that out.  Which is part of the problem by the way -- there's as many configurations as there are PCs running the stuff.  The paradox of choice.  It's a very real UX problem, this time also with very real development costs.  And with liability for the user of potentially destroying their computer.

Venting?  Sure.  Asking for sympathy?  I mean, I wouldn't mind.  Asking for solutions?  I don't care.  But that's really the root of the problem: developers write Linux for developers.  They expect all their users to know all the magic incantations, to have an internet connection always handy to search things they don't, and to just debug or recompile the kernel if anything should go wrong.  What could be easier!

It's -- it's the marketplace of ideas.  It's free software.  Free ideas.  Some people like to make a big deal about "the marketplace of ideas", but what they conveniently leave off -- or ignore with a spiritual conviction as the case may be -- ideas aren't worth anything.  In the legal sense, this is, well, patently true: you can't patent an idea.  An implementation, an invention, something physical, sure.  (Well, that's rather wishy-washy these days, between relaxed rules, less review than ever, and including more and more junk like software patents.  But, the core idea at least, of the PTO, and actual practice in recent history.)  So too it goes, free software is worth all the bits it's written on.  Free software only attains any value when it has, not just a little buy-in from users, but a truly stupendous user base -- popular projects like Firefox and Chromium are commonly touted as examples, ignoring the fact that real money supports those projects (Chromium especially, for obvious reason), and ignoring the literal millions of side projects that various users have spun off from projects big and small, as well as created themselves.  None of which you can get your hopes up about; they should be treated as only what they are: pet projects, by and for, one or a few users, with no intent of fitness-for-purpose, merchantability, support, etc.  Quite literally, you get what you paid for.

So you'll excuse me if I complain of a little cognitive dissonance, when I see optimistic claims about things people don't even realize they're extraordinarily biased towards.

Tim

Doctorandus_P:
This Linux bashing is al lot of bollocks.

Debian is not a beginner friendly distribution. It never was, and it probably never will be.
Debian assumes you know what you're doing.
I'm not even sure if Debian "out of the box" is supposed to be used at all.
I see Debian more as a common root for more user friendly distributions.

My daily driver is Linux Mint, and it does have an update button.
Some time ago I re-started an old PC I had not used for a few years.
Just out of curiousity I tried to update with apt, and got into dependency hell.
I did not want to spend time on this, and almost wiped the SSD, then I thought of the Update Manager in Mint, and I ran it.
It solved all the dependency hell and got that old system running faultless.
It did need one or two reboots and restarts of the update manager but that's all.

About windoze...
A few years ago I was at a funeral and someone was doing a talk which got rudely interrupted because the PC which was giving a presentation on a beamer had to reboot itself because of a printer driver update.

A brother of mine had to baby sit an 6 hour CNC job because the PC wanted to reboot itself every half hour.

But in the end it's not the software which is to blame, but he people who are (ab) -using it.

And also the people who write the software in the first place.
I have not forgotten nor forgiven the FUD, smear campaigns and other anti-competitive behavior of microsoft, intel and a bunch of other "big companies"

In my end work for graduating from school I wasted several weeks because microsoft's idea of FTP was not compatible with RFC959.
It did force me to dive real deep into the FTP protocol back then (30 -odd years ago), and that was probably one of the moments that made me fall in love with Open source software.
It's not only the good they're trying to do. It's also the absence of malice which unfortunately rules in a lot of for-profit companies.

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