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Altium REJECTS takeover bid from Autodesk

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free_electron:

--- Quote from: MadScientist on March 26, 2022, 01:58:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 03:52:18 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on March 25, 2022, 10:26:09 pm ---You are either deliberately mis representing things or simply actually haven’t a clue how modern OS and GUIs work. Drag and drop is not about files that’s merely one aspect of it. Internet access is not about just about files

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so then tell me : what is missing ?
You keep on sticking to existing methods and stuff. raze it !.
Make everything a storage medium that stores files. Every file has privileges. Every file can be accessed using a global indexing system.
no more need for complex systems. it's all transported using one method.

web server ? don't need them. simply access index.html on volume www.google.com .  A web server becomes nothing more than a remote file store. the URL type tells you what it is.
your own local harddisk is drive_c@.mycomputer or drive_d@mycomputer ( or something along those lines. ). A computer that is network connected gets a sort of DNS entry and can be connected to. ( there would be local hostnames too of course similar to 127.0.0.1 . essentially .mycomputer is "home")

www.google.com -> remote web server. a web browser will read index.html , parse and do the rest.
<anything>.mycomputer -> local stuff . drive_c.mycomputer , epson7100.mycomputer . this is already what unix systems do for devices.
<somebody>@mailservice.com -> filestore for email purposes.
remote applications run as a service that transport packets of data ( a packet is nothing but a small file if you think about it) , parse process and respond with other files.


The network stack could be much simpler now. no more need for all those different protocols. it's a simple file transport . email ? same thing. an email is nothing but a small file that gets sent and received to a target. a storage bin somewhere with a public alias. me@mailbox.com is nothing but a remote drive that holds the files until you pick em up. if i send an email to me@mailbox.com all i do is write a new "file" to that storage bin. that file can have a name like <sender>_<timestamp>_guid.mail.

everything is a simple file and file read / write operation at "global level".
On your hardware there is a driver that lets the operating system read/write files over network and store them on local volumes.
you would need minimal firmware to do this. you don't need random file access : bulk transport. 99% of cases covered. remote databases would use a soap like mechanism to access. commands and control files and data bundel files coming back. it doesn't stop anything.
you'd have a lightweight networking and storage kernel.

interprocess communication ? concept of a file in ram.
the actual operating memory would also be like a file. when a program is loaded from harddisk a single file ( the container for the program ) is read into a memory file. think of the computer memory as a huge ramdrive. programs that are allocating memory are doing nothing but creating a larger file. runtime memory is a ramdrive. run out of ram : swap it to disk. one program has one runtime file. can't step out of boundaries. the operating system task is to allocate , manage and abstract the physical storage into a single file.

everyting else are applications that do stuff with the contents of the files.

The windowing manager provides a common set of UI elements and a drawing canvas. need anything not in the default ui element stack ? you can make your own. there are drawing commands and event messages.

[cuote] in a competitive environment you will always have someone saying “ look here I have a better way to do it “
[/quote]
absolutely ! i wan the best of the best. but now i need three or more operating systems to satisfy that !. x is the best in class but windows only , y is best in class but mac only. z is best in class but linux only ... with such a system it would not matter anymore. i can run anything.
i simply buy my "base system" (hardware + the base kernel) purely on the speed/memory and peripherals i need. if apple makes a faster box than dell  or lenovo has the peripherals i want i buy that box. the applications will work.
operating systems would purely compete in implementation. the best operating system is the one that can get the work done the fastest with the least amount of resources. The applications would run no matter who built the OS.
You could extend this to hardware to a point. optimize the motherboard and base pack. we use standardised i/o : ethernet and usb. actually, ditch ethernet. do everything over usb. wifi ? usb based adapter. classic ethernet ? usb based adapter. usb again is simplified to do "file" transport. usb is already point to point.

when i mean "file" i mean a packet of data from beginning to end.
there would be one other interface for keyboard/mouse and other "slow user input". that works with very small , rapid burst packets. ( single keystroke, mouse move, gamecontroller move ). something like a packet containing 8 bytes or 10 bytes. always fixed layout.
all the rest has intelligence in the adapter.

fun to think about. There have been systems that worked like that...

how do web applications work ? its all html transport.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 02:27:57 pm ---The network stack could be much simpler now. no more need for all those different protocols. it's a simple file transport . email ? same thing. an email is nothing but a small file that gets sent and received to a target. a storage bin somewhere with a public alias. me@mailbox.com is nothing but a remote drive that holds the files until you pick em up. if i send an email to me@mailbox.com all i do is write a new "file" to that storage bin. that file can have a name like <sender>_<timestamp>_guid.mail.

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No, like others already wrote: your view is way too simplistic. I just picked this snippet as an example to show that your suggestion is not how it is done. Email is typically (*) stored in a database so it can be indexed (and easely transported from one computer to the other when replacing a computer). Storing every single email in a single file is prone to trouble and cumbersome to index. Back in 1995 I used Eudora and that already used a database-ish system with indexes to store email.

* Some email programs do use files but that dates back a few decades when email clients like Pine and Elm where used on Unix systesm. That is when internet was in its infancy and webbrowsers had not been invented yet.


--- Quote ---how do web applications work ? its all html transport.

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Not quite. It is http transport but the contents can be anything. Like JSON or XML formatted database records to feed data into an HTML5 or Javascript application running in the client's side browser.

MadScientist:
Sophisticated web applications today are combinations of back end server processing and front end client processing , it’s much more then passing index.html around  :)

Interprocess communications needs queues , locks, semaphores, mutexs, all supplied by the OS.

The whole thing is simply way more complex then you present it , your perspective is DOS from the 70s , where the OS provides extremely primitive support and the application must do everything else.

This leads to bloated apps , vast differences in user interfaces , dont you remember the pre gui applications , everything was different , nothing was interoperable , it’s was a nightmare

tooki:

--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 02:27:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: MadScientist on March 26, 2022, 01:58:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 03:52:18 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on March 25, 2022, 10:26:09 pm ---You are either deliberately mis representing things or simply actually haven’t a clue how modern OS and GUIs work. Drag and drop is not about files that’s merely one aspect of it. Internet access is not about just about files

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Please learn to quote correctly. You’re attributing to me something said by MadScientist.



--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 02:27:57 pm ---so then tell  me : what is missing ?

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Where to begin… :palm:

No, seriously, you have NO clue how software works, and why your proposed system can’t work. There’s a good reason we abandoned that approach long ago: it’s inefficient, error prone, and simply not up to the task of the things we use computers for these days.


--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 02:27:57 pm ---You keep on sticking to existing methods and stuff. raze it !.
Make everything a storage medium that stores files. Every file has privileges. Every file can be accessed using a global indexing system.

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That is how some aspects of modern OSes already work and have for decades.

But you clearly haven’t the foggiest notion why a simple “everything is storage” model is not a viable approach. But suffice it to say that it’s not, which is why we use different mechanisms for different things.

Not that I think you understand file handling anyway.


--- Quote from: free_electron on March 26, 2022, 02:27:57 pm ---[mountains of drivel]
how do web applications work ? its all html transport.

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Oh sweet summer child… 1. It’s not all HTML. 2. It’s not all HTTP transport. (In fact nowadays most of it isn’t HTTP, it’s HTTPS at minimum, but that’s far from the only protocol.)


The complexity in modern OSes is there for a reason: it takes care of the complexity ONCE so that application developers don’t have to reinvent the wheel over and over again. That’s how things used to work, and it sucked.

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