Help With Altium

[futura2012]

Hello Folks

I am a newbie to altium + EEVBlog and really struggling with the file structures (or at least i think its file structure related).

I have been viewing tutorials by Robert Feranec on youtube (thanks to robert btw for making them). Everything that seems to display on screen does not on mine.

There seems to be some confusion about what version his tutorials are running on he "thinks" version 9 LOL but I am on V14.2.3
I am not sure if the version clash is the issue.

I follow his tutorial about creating a new schematic component.

I create a new PCB Project, I create a new PCB File, I create a new PCB Library, I create a new Schematic File, I create a new Schematic Folder.

I now have 5 files in a dedicated folder. Wow a long winded way to click "NEW" right?

He then talks about clicking on the Schematic Library and creating a new component.  On his screen I see the components adding in a kind of file manager on the left hand side of the screen. He can then click on each one and edit it.

On my screen when I add the components they increment like "New component name" 1 - 2 -3 -4 etc but I definitely cannot get the file manager type thing he has on the left of his screen. NO WAY I have tried for ages.

The closest I can get is a yellow icon in the tool bar on the far right labelled "model manager" however you can see the new components added but there seems to be very little edit options about them.

I then decided to not worry about this and try and proceed with the resistor model he builds and then ADD a foot print.

Once again I meet a dead end.

Click on the add foot print option in the scroll bar window beneath the component drawing.

Up pops the PCB model box. In Roberts tutorial you click browse a list of footprints appears. 

In mine I just see a single entry PCB component 1.  No footprints.

I have been messing with this program now for at least two days.  I am seriously struggling with how the files structures are organised what i mean is how say a particular component in say the schematic library is added to the project.

I understand what I am trying to achieve as I have viewed several tutorials so know the process backwards now but I am just in serious need of some kind of direction with how to move forward.

I have a download an array of various components from the web, libraries including footprints etc. The impression i get is this will be useful for experimenting with edits etc but all the tutorials seem to point at just make everything yourself.  this makes sense to me as (A) the program seems to be super confusing in terms of file structure and finding stuff (B) as we all know there are so many components its usually easier just to look or read about what you are dealing with and make it.  the making stuff in altium seems to be relatively painless if you know what you are doing (atm i dont LOL )

I have made a couple of footprints.

I have made half a schematic.

What I cannot do is link the relevant diagram with the relevant footprint. I am finding it very difficult to edit stuff generally and I seem to have my file structures all over the place.

I suspect this program is one of those things that once it eventually makes sense it is quite good but right now i am banging my head against a wall and wondering if the problem is me.

any help massively appreciated




 

[T3sl4co1l]

Without any pictures or examples to look at, it sounds like you're missing out on Workspace Panels.  You probably have the Project panel open already (the 'file manager' thing??), which lets you navigate projects and open files.  Try turning on a few others (View / Workspace Panels / System / ..., or the buttons along the bottom right).  Which ones are available is context sensitive, so when viewing a SchLib, you will have access to library panels, etc.

Panels can be docked in various locations.  Usually a sidebar, or a separate window (can be good with dual monitors).

I'd suggest a default setup of,
Schematic: SCH Inspector, SCH List
PCB: PCB Inspector, PCB List (the generic PCB panel is also sometimes handy)
Library: Lib View, Lib Inspector, Lib List

The lists are more advanced, giving you selection access to any primitive object (line, label, graphic, etc.) in the document, or related documents.  This is even more powerful with the Filter panel, which allows you to select or mask objects based on a query statement.  So maybe you won't use either so much right away.

Tim

[futura2012]

Hello Tim

Thank you for getting back to me. Sorry my descriptions are a bit vague.

I have created 2 images which hopefully will be more clear.


IMAGE 1

Image 1 is what i am seeing when I click on the Schematic Library Icon in the viewer on the left.  This is an attempt to make a CA3080 which i am using in a design I am making for a VCO.  As you can see the pin assignments are all over the place and I have no control over this file. In other words I can add a component (tools, new component 1-2-3-4 etc) but seem to have no control to any of these new build component files.  I cannot view or control them. The only small control / view I can get if i click on that small yellow icon in the very right hand side.  this is the model manager. It seems fairly limited and like with everything else seems very un intuative to figure out.

Also note in my viewer on the left i only have two tabs at the bottom labelled Files & Projects.


IMAGE2

Now image 2 is from another tutorial not one of franks exactly the same issue (sorry for the awful resolution). Its hard to see but if you look closely this guy has approximately 5 tabs beneath the viewer on the left and once he clicks on one of these tabs the display has now axed the project browser and modified into a component browser.  From this component browser forms the key to the tutorial and i am mystified as I cannot get it.

I realise with any new OS or software there is always an element of teething but I am really struggling with this program.  I have a feeling this might be like Adobe Photoshop at first you just really don't get it but finally once the concept settles in you wonder how you existed without it

My other issue is really how you store for example a transistor image into a schematic library, or say how you store a schematic diagram into a project. Or maybe how you pull a footprint from one of the SUPER CONFUSING altium libraries to make into something more simple.  Everything seems to be locked down.   Im getting red lists of libraries that it cannot seem to index right, sometimes the lists totally dissappear and altium cannot find anything.  I seem to get default positions to a schematic component i have created so at first it will see it but once you try and change anything the component disappears.  All I seem to be doing with this program is creating files all over the shop.  For example it seems just to start a project you need 5 files. PCB Project file, actual PCB file, PCB library file, schematic diagram file and schematic library file.   i am also reading something about I might need more embedded files to link stuff.

I have honestly tried youtube to the point of repetition I can almost recite the words, the altium site has some written tutorials on outdated version 10 which seem half relevant and otherwise im kinda lost.

I think my problem lies with as you say some kind of embedded display option / feature I dont have switched on and clearly a total lack of understanding about how all the file structures work.

I can see how if you understand all this there is some logic to the separated files. I have also looked at the earlier versions of protel so maybe this seperated  file structure concept is legacy based from this unsure.

What ever it is I am sure at some point the "penny will drop" and hopefully i will be saying omg this is awesome!!

THANK YOU for your feedback and help

[AlfBaz]

Now image 2 is from another tutorial not one of franks exactly the same issue (sorry for the awful resolution). Its hard to see but if you look closely this guy has approximately 5 tabs beneath the viewer on the left and once he clicks on one of these tabs the display has now axed the project browser and modified into a component browser.  From this component browser forms the key to the tutorial and i am mystified as I cannot get it.

on the bottom right hand side of the screen you have five labels
System, Design Compiler, SCH, Instruments and Shortcuts

Click on SCH, select "SCH Library".

If it pops up as a floating window, simply dock it over with your Files and Projects tabs

[futura2012]

alfbaz

thanks mate

thats hit the nail on the head!! omg it took me several days of pain and now a single tab in the bottom of the screen I live in shame LOL.

I quote myself again:

I think my problem lies with as you say some kind of embedded display option / feature I dont have switched on and clearly a total lack of understanding about how all the file structures work.

at least now I am slightly less clueless

thats great because now i can proceed with the tutorials and hopefully learn as opposed to getting VERY frustrated.

one more thing whilst i think about it.  In the schematic component folder ie the area where you create your own schematic components is there a standardisation of size you would recommend say for example if we took an op amp triangle how big does one make it? for now I have just been making one that looks right but maybe this is wrong?

after reading around online it seems the majority of users totally ignore the altium component databases and just create their own of course you could reference to the altium library sizes but im not sure if this is a good reference source?

I guess you can always resize stuff so does it matter? at the moment due to my lack of experience I am not sure.

thanks for your reply


 

[AlfBaz]

one more thing whilst i think about it.  In the schematic component folder ie the area where you create your own schematic components is there a standardisation of size you would recommend say for example if we took an op amp triangle how big does one make it? for now I have just been making one that looks right but maybe this is wrong?

You can use the standard pin sizes as a guide to the size of your symbol, although I sometimes shorten them on digital multi-pin devices

after reading around online it seems the majority of users totally ignore the altium component databases and just create their own of course you could reference to the altium library sizes but im not sure if this is a good reference source?

If there's an existing symbol, I will copy it for sure. Just about anything to save time

[T3sl4co1l]

My problem with built in libraries (the Summer '09 vintage): none of them contain 3D data, most of the silk patterns and schematic symbols suck, few contain SPICE models if you're interested in doing that, and many of them aren't even IPC compliant!

Tim

[free_electron]

My problem with built in libraries (the Summer '09 vintage): none of them contain 3D data, most of the silk patterns and schematic symbols suck, few contain SPICE models if you're interested in doing that, and many of them aren't even IPC compliant!

Tim

download mine.

[Rigby]

http://www.siliconvalleygarage.com/downloads/altium-library.html

for those that don't know.

[futura2012]

You can use the standard pin sizes as a guide to the size of your symbol, although I sometimes shorten them on digital multi-pin devices

Hello Alfbaz sorry to sound like a complete doosh would you mind clarifying in a bit more detail what you mean. When you say pin size do you mean the physical pin length from the datasheet? if so how do you reference this to what recommended size of say how to draw an op amp schematic triangle?

If there's an existing symbol, I will copy it for sure. Just about anything to save time

Say if you find an Op Amp diagram you like in an Altium Library for example. How do you use this diagram in your own custom component?  I seem to recall a tutorial where they copy and paste a component in the component sch library manager and then modify the copy. Would this be the best method do you think?

My problem with built in libraries (the Summer '09 vintage): none of them contain 3D data, most of the silk patterns and schematic symbols suck, few contain SPICE models if you're interested in doing that, and many of them aren't even IPC compliant!

From the libraries I have seen (and to be fair to altium I may not have seen them all) but they contain mountains of components I have never heard of before with massive serial numbers and also a pile of what I can only describe as AN AWFUL LOT OF DATA arguable a confusing amount of data. 

Like with many things it also seems to lack categories. For example I think TI op Amps could be further categories ed to certain types of op amp, certain footprints etc etc.  You could even have multiple categories sometimes with the same components in but just different categories according to what you are trying to do.  It just seems right now the libraries are MASSIVE, have MASSIVE data and by all accounts confuse people to the point where it is clearly quicker to make a component than find one.  Also some basic libraries would be nice again not a single basic library with everything but say a "basic inductor library" "basic resistor library" etc.

In summary I think it needs a much easier method to be able to find components.  the search algorithm thing is okay but like with all these data string searches they work fine as long as you know the relevant string.  if you dont you are often searching to find a string so you can search to find a component.  As stated numerous times by the time you have done all this hassle you have already drawn what you need

Perhaps i am commenting on old libraries and there are much newer ones hidden in the altium website unsure?

download mine.

done and very handy thank you mr free_electron

[Christopher]

I dunno if it's right or wrong but I copy the schematic symbols from the library which comes with the program, if they are decent, into my own library.

I then generate the SMD components from the LxWxD etc from the datasheet as I need them.

Eventually the idea is to have a library of every component I use, for instance 47K 0805 and 100K 0805 would have separate footprints & symbols with its own part number. That's what we do at work with PADs, but that seems very silly for hobby use..