Altium Subscription

[Roger Parsell]

It’s time for my Altium subscription renewal and my question is to renew or not to renew. I am a contractor with a single licence. I have had a subscription for 5 years and I think Altium is excellent but I am not sure the £1500 renewal price is worth it again. I never use the help desk support, vaults and release management is stupid and I don’t have a use for them. I don’t believe the new features we get are worth the price. Bugs should be fixed not based on subscription as this would mean you purchase a faulty product and pay a subscription to fix it. The new features are nice but don’t save me £1500 a year in time or productivity.
What do others suggest who use Altium?

[JuKu]

I dropped it this summer. As it is, it is good, and I don't see it going to direction I find worth the money. (Now, would it understand the concept of a product (one sch, many pcb), voltage levels (5v signal to 3 v input is an error, +15v to -supply is an error) and other real life issues, I would pay, but things like this on the request list for years...)

[free_electron]

Now, would it understand the concept of a product (one sch, many pcb)

That on you have to explain to me ...
i am doing that frequently. one master schematic that get distributed between several boards.

You simply make the board planning and draw board slots. you can create mousebites or snappoints between individual boards.

Take a look at the board i did for Labworx 1. 1 master schematic , 10's of individual boards.
even if you don;t want the boards to remain together as a frame you can do it.

[c4757p]

voltage levels (5v signal to 3 v input is an error, +15v to -supply is an error)

IMHO, this is why the user of the software, not the software itself, has worked to earn the title "engineer".

[free_electron]

voltage levels (5v signal to 3 v input is an error, +15v to -supply is an error)

IMHO, this is why the user of the software, not the software itself, has worked to earn the title "engineer".

actually altium can detect that !. simply check off the 'allow multiple net names for same net' option in the drc engine.
by default it allows you to do that as sometimes you want a bridging. turn that off and it will warn you that you have crossed signals.

or do you want this on the pins of a chip ? that would need the pin of a chip having defined the operational ranges .... that would be a mjor software update. i'm not even sure any cad program ot there can do that. that is sheer designer stupidity...
what do you want next ? checking that the power supplies of an opamp are not being overloaded ? noise checking ?

[JuKu]

Now, would it understand the concept of a product (one sch, many pcb)

That on you have to explain to me ...
i am doing that frequently. one master schematic that get distributed between several boards.

You simply make the board planning and draw board slots. you can create mousebites or snappoints between individual boards.

Take a look at the board i did for Labworx 1. 1 master schematic , 10's of individual boards.
even if you don;t want the boards to remain together as a frame you can do it.

Sure, you can fool it to do that, even though natively, it does not understand the concept. I sometimes use it to draw dimensionally accurate stuff that has nothing to do with electronics. But Altium does not separate one sch to multiple pcb files, each with own BOM, gerbers, rules etc.

[JuKu]

or do you want this on the pins of a chip ? that would need the pin of a chip having defined the operational ranges ....

Most pins of a chip do have defined operational ranges. Too bad an electronics CAD program ignores fundamental electronic concepts.

that would be a mjor software update.

It would, and I would be happy to pay for that.

i'm not even sure any cad program ot there can do that. that is sheer designer stupidity...

Me neither, but it would be useful. I agree, it is stupid that CAD programs don't do that. Of course I know that +15 goes to +Vss, but still I reversed the supplies for one op-amp in a design earlier this year. I also made a few spelling errors that month, but I do have a spell checker in my word processor.

what do you want next ? checking that the power supplies of an opamp are not being overloaded ? noise checking ?

Why not? It is supposed to be a CAD system after all. I'd like a good autoplacer also. It is pathetic that a CAD system does not understand the concept of the most common component, the decoupling cap.

All these would be a lesser effort than vaults, FPGA compilers etc., I think. For FPGA, they should have links to vendor tools to pass pinouts back and forth, but that would be sufficient, imo. As said, I don't see the program evolving into direction where I see value for subscription. You might see value in things Altium chooses to spend their effor on.

[free_electron]

Now, would it understand the concept of a product (one sch, many pcb)

That on you have to explain to me ...
i am doing that frequently. one master schematic that get distributed between several boards.

You simply make the board planning and draw board slots. you can create mousebites or snappoints between individual boards.

Take a look at the board i did for Labworx 1. 1 master schematic , 10's of individual boards.
even if you don;t want the boards to remain together as a frame you can do it.

Sure, you can fool it to do that, even though natively, it does not understand the concept. I sometimes use it to draw dimensionally accurate stuff that has nothing to do with electronics. But Altium does not separate one sch to multiple pcb files, each with own BOM, gerbers, rules etc.

No electronics cad does that.

you can spit out individual BOM's per sub-board. simply make a 'variant' and tell it the engine what parts are in that variant. you can simply do that by placing a blanket on the sheet.

the output gerber will hold all boards. simply split those using camtastic.
the rules, BOm , can be set using blankets and variants.

having 1 master schematic split across several boards is only usefull if you are going to have all the boards panelised. let's say you are designing a car radio. one board will be connected,across a slit, using wire jumpers so the board can be snapped off after assembly and flipped 90 degrees upward. another board snaps off after assembly and plugs in to a connector on the main board.

that kind of stuff is all perfectly possible.
for my next book (on PCB design_ i am making a mini hifi amplifier (radio,iDevice, USB,aux input. the board is such a panel.
the panel is assembled in 1 run then snapped apart and dropped in the chassis. piece of cake
i use a flex pcb design for the remote control

[free_electron]

Why not? It is supposed to be a CAD system after all.

suggest it to mentor or cadence. for a few million dollar i'm sure they can come up with something...

It is pathetic that a CAD system does not understand the concept of the most common component, the decoupling cap.

i find it pathetic that 99.99% of the so called 'engineers' don't even understand the decoupling cap...

[EEVblog]

Bugs should be fixed not based on subscription as this would mean you purchase a faulty product and pay a subscription to fix it.

But unfortunately that's not how Altium operates. In Australia at least it could even violate "fit for purpose" laws if you are sold a dud version and they won't fix it unless you pay for subscription.

Many pro Altium users get a stable version they are happy with and then stick with it and drop the support. There are still many people using 99SE for that reason. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
For any pro PCB designer, tool stability usually far outweighs new features.

[sacherjj]

I'm up for renewal in Feb. I'm also having a hard time justifying it, as well. I'll have access to 14, but 13.3 has been stable and as much as I need.

[JuKu]

i find it pathetic that 99.99% of the so called 'engineers' don't even understand the decoupling cap...

:lol:

[Roger Parsell]

Bugs should be fixed not based on subscription as this would mean you purchase a faulty product and pay a subscription to fix it.

But unfortunately that's not how Altium operates. In Australia at least it could even violate "fit for purpose" laws if you are sold a dud version and they won't fix it unless you pay for subscription.

Many pro Altium users get a stable version they are happy with and then stick with it and drop the support. There are still many people using 99SE for that reason. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
For any pro PCB designer, tool stability usually far outweighs new features.

Hi Dave,
That confirms my opinion. I did flex Boards long before they recently added the support for them. Just as one example of stability over features. It becomes a habit to renew year on year and only after a while question if you get value for the subscription,
I think I’ll just buy back in in a few years if they add support for IPC-2581 or something really useful like it.
Thanks for the advice.

[sacherjj]

Couple of questions I'm trying to work through in deciding to punt the subscription.

How does reinstalling Altium work if you don't have a subscription?

Does it just allow you to download the latest version you had access to when your subscription ran out?

Also, is the supplier search tied to subscription in any way?

[free_electron]

Couple of questions I'm trying to work through in deciding to punt the subscription.

How does reinstalling Altium work if you don't have a subscription?

Does it just allow you to download the latest version you had access to when your subscription ran out?

Also, is the supplier search tied to subscription in any way?

You need to make a local repository and save the licence to a file.
Then you can deploy whenever and whereever.

Or you need to call their support and hey will give you ftp access to grab the master zip file.

[free_electron]

i find it pathetic that 99.99% of the so called 'engineers' don't even understand the decoupling cap...

I'm not an engineer so I want to know what the 99.99% think? And what they should think.

what they think is : if we pepper the foard with plenty of 100nf caps, whatever sort we have laying around, it will be ok.

What they should think requires a book to explain...

[sacherjj]

what they think is : if we pepper the foard with plenty of 100nf caps, whatever sort we have laying around, it will be ok.

What they should think requires a book to explain...

I was in that boat 12 months ago.  (I'm a recovering EE having done software for 11 years, electronics as just hobby and now getting dropped back in.)   I inherited a design that uses tons of 0u22 caps exclusively.  Reading Henry Otts latest book was great in understanding much of the factors involved in filter caps.  My caps now consist of 10u, 4u7, 1u, 0u22 and 100n, for the right reasons. 

I didn't previously understand how much EMC issues can be around, even with working circuits, but not giving a varying frequency filtering design in the filter caps.  I also didn't realize how much capacitance drops at frequency.  Most are spec'ed at DC.

[JuKu]

Couple of questions I'm trying to work through in deciding to punt the subscription.

How does reinstalling Altium work if you don't have a subscription?

Does it just allow you to download the latest version you had access to when your subscription ran out?

Also, is the supplier search tied to subscription in any way?

You can install from the repository without a hitch. If you have valid license, Altium lets you activate your license even if your subscription is expired.

[sam512bb]

Hi Dave,
That confirms my opinion. I did flex Boards long before they recently added the support for them. Just as one example of stability over features. It becomes a habit to renew year on year and only after a while question if you get value for the subscription,
I think I’ll just buy back in in a few years if they add support for IPC-2581 or something really useful like it.
Thanks for the advice.

Good day Roger,

Just a heads up that Altium has a new policy with lapsed subscriptions...  They now charge $100 or $200 (I can't remember which) per month lapse fee in addition to the latest subscription rate...  So, after about 2 years you are effectively re-purchasing the product... To me all this does is alienate their customer  base... at least for us that is what is has done, as there are no new features, etc that justifies almost a repurchase of the product.  That being said, I have heard that in early 2014 Altium will be offering some incentives/discounts for those with lapsed subscriptions. I guess we will find out what these are very soon.

Cheers,

Sam

[DerekG]

It’s time for my Altium subscription renewal and my question is to renew or not to renew.

I'm still on Altium Designer v 6.9. I paid AUD$3600 to upgrade from DXP as they promised the full screen scroll problem (present since Protel ver 2.5 in 1995) was fixed along with what you see is NOT what you'll get (you have to check your board in single layer mode to ensure what you see in all layer mode is what your board will actually be).

.............. well, Altium only gave me half full screen mode (their fix to their one direction non-scrolling problem) by leaving the scroll bars & the WYSIWYG problem remained unchanged.

I felt duped (actually I was duped).

Bugs should be fixed not based on subscription as this would mean you purchase a faulty product and pay a subscription to fix it.

But unfortunately that's not how Altium operates. In Australia at least it could even violate "fit for purpose" laws if you are sold a dud version and they won't fix it unless you pay for subscription.

Many pro Altium users get a stable version they are happy with and then stick with it and drop the support. There are still many people using 99SE for that reason. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yes, if the current version does all you want then there is little reason to upgrade. Australia's fit-for-purpose laws are much stronger now than in 2008 when I took my last upgrade. With the Altium email saying my 2 big gripes had been fixed (when they weren't), Altium would have nowhere to go but to upgrade me to a (fixed) later version at no cost.

I'm up for renewal in Feb. I'm also having a hard time justifying it, as well. I'll have access to 14, but 13.3 has been stable and as much as I need.

The AD14 designator is just referring to the year 2014. There is no reason to suspect it will have significant problems over AD13 ................ however if you have access to it before your subscription falls due, download it & you then have both copies just in case it turns out to have some major bugs.

Couple of questions I'm trying to work through in deciding to punt the subscription.

How does re-installing Altium work if you don't have a subscription?

Does it just allow you to download the latest version you had access to when your subscription ran out?

Whilst your subscription is active, ensure you download the latest updates. Place these safe with your original purchase so you can re-load onto a new machine if needed. The licence (used to be at least) is perpetual, so as long as Altium can find your original license in their database, all will register again via the net. If you run into a problem, you can always call up their local office & demand it be fixed.

Take a screen shot from "Help" "About"  as this proves your license is "perpetual" (used to be at least).

I use the software as it is quite powerful compared to many others ............... however I dislike the software & I dislike Altium as a company as well ............... just pointing it out in case it was not very evident.