Author Topic: Free Altium is Coming  (Read 297325 times)

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Offline ludzinc

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #125 on: September 15, 2014, 05:29:17 am »
The need to use the could leaves a nasty taste, but I think I could get used to it.  I do occasionally work on boards while commuting (planes) with no internets so that is an issue. 

Hmm, how long until someone spoofs their cloud server (a cloud at 192.168.0.1 would be very handy!)?

- NO, it's not limited to single sheet, only those restrictions mentioned above.

- AD will import these projects, but not vice-versa. So you can use this and then step up to AD, but not go backwards.


Questions to answer once the Beta goes live - not limited sheet, not multichannel, but can you nest sheets, or are you limited to a flat design?

To not be able import AD into this tool is disappointing, but I can see their need to protect the Altium side of the business.  But can you manually copy / paste from an AD window into the new tool? 

I'd love my current projects to be bought over, and if a simple import won't cut it I'd be happy to do it via manual copy / paste.
 

Offline Pedram

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #126 on: September 15, 2014, 05:31:08 am »
the one thing Altium is famous for,  is changing their mind.

Altium designer with cloud save only ? No thanks.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:36:01 am by Pedram »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2014, 05:31:23 am »
I suspect most people just switched off at that point. The community manages to share projects just fine and still manages to allow people to have local copies. I don't want to look for my files in the cloud on a day when there is a clear blue sky.

I told Altium that the program will live or die by acceptance of this restriction.
I guess they won't know until they try it...
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2014, 05:33:13 am »
Questions to answer once the Beta goes live - not limited sheet, not multichannel, but can you nest sheets, or are you limited to a flat design?

Nested. Pretty sure I saw that in the design examples they showed.

 

Offline Zad

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2014, 05:33:36 am »
Uhuh. The cloud-only is a product killer, if totally predictable.

I'm guessing that all libraries that people upload will become property of Altium, and an asset similar to the Thingiverse of Makerbot. Altium isn't exactly a massive and stable international conglomerate, so there's no guarantee that your product will still be there next year, next month, or even tomorrow. Having seen how quickly these things can disappear when friends lost images on a "free" photo site, I wouldn't bet the company on such a risk. I also don't want the arse of renting a bit more board space at 3am on the night before a product design is due.

At least when you have stuff on Google Docs, you have the opportunity of downloading them to local storage if you should want.

I give it a week at most before hackers enable local saving, unlock the limits and stop the software phoning home. 48 hours is more usual for software with advanced protection.


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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #130 on: September 15, 2014, 05:39:34 am »
I am suspicious of why they want the project files stored only in the cloud. What's in it for them? I'm not interested in listening to the marketing spin.

It's a combination of protecting their AD user base, but I gather mostly because they really do want the whole concept of community to take off with this product.
You'll see once it's made public I'm sure.

Quote
What is in it for Altium?

Altium want to make money. Extra features will be rented, there is no concept of buying and owning this product. So if you have to connect to the server to enable your license then you might as well store your files there too I guess?
But yeah, it sucks.

But like I said, this could change based on community feedback/anger/non-acceptance.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2014, 05:41:28 am »
I suspect most people just switched off at that point. The community manages to share projects just fine and still manages to allow people to have local copies. I don't want to look for my files in the cloud on a day when there is a clear blue sky.

I told Altium that the program will live or die by acceptance of this restriction.
I guess they won't know until they try it...

Another SimCity debacle coming up :)
 

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2014, 05:41:48 am »
I also don't want the arse of renting a bit more board space at 3am on the night before a product design is due.

To me that's a really good aspect of this, being able to rent the extra feature to get a project done. You can't do that with Eagle or others.

Quote
I give it a week at most before hackers enable local saving, unlock the limits and stop the software phoning home.

Yep, probably.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2014, 06:03:48 am »
- NO, you will not be able to save files locally, they must be stored online in the cloud.

Dave, does 'cloud' means Altium servers only with no cost-free data libration?  If so, this is not a 'cloud', it a proprietary lock in by an evil company.

Compare with http://dataliberation.org

You should call them on that, even if they are schmoozing you.

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2014, 06:10:19 am »
Yeah, I'm pretty bummed. But then I realise I use gmail and google docs  :palm:

Both products allow you to get your data to your computer in a useable format (which I do often)  Will Altium allow that?

http://dataliberation.org



Drain the swamp.
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2014, 06:13:00 am »
Cloud based is a show stopper for me too. Bye bye, Altium Free!

Offline DerekG

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2014, 06:19:55 am »
I'm guessing that all libraries that people upload will become property of Altium

And your files if you don't continue to pay the "File retention fee" year after year.

I am suspicious of why they want the project files stored only in the cloud. What's in it for them?

So they can charge you for storing them year after year.

One year you decide not to pay & the next year you go looking for your 2 year old design to find it's not the cloud your looking at, but a puff of smoke instead.

I thought a lot of the cr*p had been cleaned out the closet when Nick Martin was given the boot. Obviously not.

Three words for you Altium.

Dumb, dumb & dummer.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2014, 06:31:20 am »
Dave, does 'cloud' means Altium servers only with no cost-free data libration?  If so, this is not a 'cloud', it a proprietary lock in by an evil company.

Of course it means Altium servers (or more precisely Amazon S3 and RackSpace et.al)

Quote
Compare with http://dataliberation.org
You should call them on that, even if they are schmoozing you.

I said it sucks, and that the product will likely live or die based on this restriction. What more do you want me to say?
It also sucks that you can't export and take your data elsewhere, but I doubt Altium are alone here? That's the choice you make when you chose Altium. It's not like the current AD product lets you export and move over to Eagle for example.
This is not Google Docs, where you can export easily into text or whatever it's a complicated CAD program with all it's element storage idiosyncrasies.
 

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2014, 06:34:29 am »
And your files if you don't continue to pay the "File retention fee" year after year.

What good are your Altium files if you don't chose to use Altium any more?
I'm sure you can chose to shut down your account and delete the files, I doubt they "become the property of Altium"

Quote
So they can charge you for storing them year after year.

For the free version, no, it doesn't cost you anything.
And even for the paid versions it does not cost you anything to store your files. You only pay if you chose to use the package again to edit them at a later date.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2014, 06:37:39 am »
Both products allow you to get your data to your computer in a useable format (which I do often)  Will Altium allow that?

It does not export to other packages, no. But then again, neither does AD mostly. Want to move from AD to Eagle or KiCAD or DIPtrace, or...? Altium won't help you with that:
http://techdocs.altium.com/display/ADOH/Importing+and+Exporting+Design+Files
 

Offline timb

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2014, 06:41:04 am »
Guys, server side data storage is the way of the future. As internet speeds increase, especially wireless, we'll get to a point where all data is stored on server farms. Our entire OS's won't even be local anymore.

Assimilate.


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Offline Pedram

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2014, 06:49:05 am »
Guys, server side data storage is the way of the future. As internet speeds increase, especially wireless, we'll get to a point where all data is stored on server farms. Our entire OS's won't even be local anymore.

Assimilate.


Sent from my Smartphone

Yes. As long as they don't restrict you to it and use it as a leverage to buy their software.
 

Online IanJ

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2014, 06:51:51 am »
Hi all,

Am not a fan of cloud based stuff. However, I might still give it a go.......however, it does depend on how easy it is to use and what restrictions it has on my workflow and ability to do things. I.E. In Eagle I quite often duplicate a project to back it up, or to create a new rev (not for production but to test routing scenarios etc).

The cloud had better be extremely seemless.

In the meantime I'm off to drop a line to CadSoft.......they should see this thread now......might push them to increase their own dev team......  :)

Ian.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 06:58:36 am by IanJ »
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2014, 06:52:54 am »
Ya know... totally makes sense, actually.

Consider.

Eagle importer.  You can bring your existing stuff in.

Of course they wouldn't export Eagle, that'd be silly.  But Eagle could import Altium.

Oh, but wait, remember that file save thing?

So where are you going to get the files to import?

That's what they're after -- you can go in, but not back out!

Tim
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Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2014, 06:54:11 am »
Cloud saving only?

Aaaaaand it's dead. What on earth are they smoking? Hours of work, and no local save? No thanks mate.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2014, 06:58:04 am »
I.E. In Eagle I quite often duplicate a project to back it up, or to create a new rev (not for production but to test routing scenarios etc).

Use git or any other version control system.  That's what they good for.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline timb

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2014, 07:02:44 am »

Guys, server side data storage is the way of the future. As internet speeds increase, especially wireless, we'll get to a point where all data is stored on server farms. Our entire OS's won't even be local anymore.

Assimilate.


Sent from my Smartphone

Yes. As long as they don't restrict you to it and use it as a leverage to buy their software.

The software is free. You're not buying anything.

Furthermore, in 10 years when "Windows XP2: Cloud Boogaloo" comes out, all the software that runs on it will be hosted on Microsoft's Azure platform. No data or software will be stored on your platform.

This is the future.

That said the future isn't quite here yet... What Altium is doing is adopting the Upverter model, only with Windows software instead of a WebApp. To me, that's stupid as shit. At least with a WebApp it's cross platform. (And Upverter allows you to export a local copy of their open file format.)

It's like they saw Upverter's public/private repository scheme and thought, "That's the ticket! Let's do that only half-assed and with dumb, arbitrary restrictions."

If they're going to have cloud-only saving then they need the ability to export a project. Even if it's just an XML or JSON file of all the net lists and coordinates. We can easily make converters for that.

If they don't do that they're completely off track and the product will fail.


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Offline janoc

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2014, 07:43:09 am »
I was looking forward to trying Altium but if there is no local backup/save, sorry. That's just not usable, not even for toy projects.

I am not doing big designs, but even a simple board is hours of work. And if I lose internet connection or the program crashes just before uploading the thing to the cloud, I'm screwed. Hours of lost work.

I could live with the other restrictions (hey, it is "free"!), even though the limited amount of "private" projects will likely make it very unappealing to anyone building anything for sale. Those people will likely rather stay with Eagle/Diptrace/Kicad/whatever. However, the lack of local saves makes it a non-starter for anyone who has ever made a PCB with more than 3 parts.

What were these guys thinking?  :palm:
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2014, 07:48:37 am »
I'm still banned from their forum...
One might think for the publicity gained here this might change?  >:D

Oh well, we should have known better...there is no such thing as a free lunch.  :--
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline sca

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Re: Free Altium is Coming
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2014, 07:51:05 am »
Another down vote for cloud storage.

Any idea if allowing local storage will be a paid option?

Similarly is push-and-shove likely to be a paid option?

Thanks,

sca

 


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