Free Altium is Coming

[Precipice]

Altium should get their collectives heads out of the Cloud and wake up to the fact that the people that will use this software are not into collaborative efforts.

Yeah, I think they've chosen quite sensibly, to avoid this new offering gutting their commercial product. Commercial customers simply don't want this cloud and collaborative, open stuff. Don't want, can't possibly use, won't touch with a bargepole.
Sounds like you're not the target audience?

There may be a justification for a cut-down AD, but that's more or less irrelevant to CM, isn't it?

[Batang]

There may be a justification for a cut-down AD, but that's more or less irrelevant to CM, isn't it?

• Cloud storage will be a deal breaker for most, so if files are saved locally then why not a new product.
• But to create a new product when an AD lite version would provide a direct upgrade path to AD full seems logical for both marketing and code base development

The video pitch however is not extolling the virtues of the actual software functionality rather an optimistic idea of cloud computing.

And no I am not in that target audience, but I was once.

Cheers

[Rufus]

Yeah, I think they've chosen quite sensibly,

Specifically targeting customers that don't have any money and won't ever make money using your product - stroke of genius.

Maybe we will see pop-up adverts every time you place a component or route a net? How else are they going to fund it?  Or maybe they will fund it with money made by their core product the same as all the other dumb ideas Altium has had.

[Precipice]

I'd guess at PCB sales (commission), component sales (commission), maybe a prototype assemby service (commission), upselling features within CM, upselling to AD, charging to jailbreak designs. Plenty of ways of harvesting a few dollars from the willing, without unnecessarily pissing off the userbase. No idea if it'll cover the costs or be profitable, but that's all part of being a company...
Since I'm hoping this is substantially based on the AD codebase, code, documentation and support should be where the money goes.

As far as I can see, Altium have taken far worse gambles over the years. This one kinda makes sense to me, even though I'm not a likely customer.

Edit: Documentation. Altium, FFS, you do need to sort the documentation. AD-levels of ineptitude really won't work for a more casual audience. Knocking out a few videos of 'how to' is one thing, but actual documentation, kept up to date and in sync with the code, would make CM stand out from the other packages. You know, sort of look professional?

[timb]

I just finished watching a nauseating youtube video of Max discussing CircuitMaker complete with Google Speak.

Altium should get their collectives heads out of the Cloud and wake up to the fact that the people that will use this software are not into collaborative efforts.

I dunno, Upverter and the entire OSHW movement kinda says different.

Let me guess, you hate Arduino too and anyone who uses them, right?


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[Rufus]

Let me guess, you hate Arduino too and anyone who uses them, right?

Microchip alone sells as many microprocessors every 12 hours as have been used in all the Arduino's, clones, and derivatives ever made. Seriously get over yourself.

Anyone here paying money to upverter? Do they make any money or are they still burning through the 2-3 million of VC they got?

[timb]

What does Microchip selling PIC chips have to do with Arduino? That's apples to oranges.

Arduino sells as many units every day as Microchip has ever sold PIC dev boards, is a much better comparison.

Yes, I pay for a Pro Upverter account. Clients love being able to actively collaborate on their designs. They can upload their schematic from Eagle and participate in the design review. For smaller projects I'll do the entire layout in Upverter, otherwise I use DipTrace and export/import my changes.


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[Rufus]

What does Microchip selling PIC chips have to do with Arduino?

The numbers give Arduino and the OSHW 'movement' a 'pimple on the arse of' size ranking in the global electronics market which means only a slightly bigger pimple in the global electronics design tool market.

So saying "Upverter and the entire OSHW movement kinda says different" doesn't mean that much.

Yes, I pay for a Pro Upverter account.

Any more?

[timb]

Well, Linear Tech has started giving Arduino based examples in their data sheets and a lot of their dev boards are Arduino shields, so, uh...

I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't know what you're talking about. (I.e. Stop spouting shit from *your* pimpled ass.)




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[EEVblog]

The board kicked his ass to the curb, didn't they?
Sounds like they got tired of him.

Yep.
Funny thing with that whole Saga was that Nick bailed out his buddy by buying his practically bankrupt zero-income company Morfik for 15% of Altium stock. Said buddy already had a big percentage of Altium stock from when he worked there from the early days and left to form Morfik.
The said buddy who now had a massive chunk of Altium shares sided with the board to finally boot out Martin, and they finally had the votes to do it. Now former buddy is now the CEO.
That's what you get when you help out your "friends" 

[free_electron]

Well, Linear Tech has started giving Arduino based examples in their data sheets and a lot of their dev boards are Arduino shields, so, uh...

I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't know what you're talking about. (I.e. Stop spouting shit from *your* pimpled ass.)




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Really ? Linear tech ? My , how deep they have fallen ...

I get how arduino appeals to beginners and how easy it is to kludge something together ,but , anyone serious about their electronics hobby (note : electronics hobby , im not talking about artists and blinkylight makers) or wouldnt't be caught dead with an arduino.

Here is why:
-oddball formfactor with a tab sticking out (strange board shape , why do they need that weird shape. Rectangle not good enough ?)
-connectors not aligned to a standard grid (misaligned is a better word)
- the board is not routed. It is vomited. (Talking original duino now)
- not properly designed. No ferrites on usb shield vs chassis , no common mode filters in datapath , too high a standby current

[timb]

I know plenty of EE's who use Arduinos and/or Wiring compatible platforms (MSP430/Tiva C, PIC32, ATmega, STM32) for prototyping.

If you're not primarily a software guy, but great with hardware, it makes a ton of sense.

There's a difference between Arduino the Hardware and Arduino the Platform.

(That said, I agree about the Arduino hardware form factor: What were they thinking?!?!)

Personally, I'm invested in TI's LaunchPad and use Energia a lot. (Though through a real IDE: Xcode.)

Of course final products get all the Wiring abstraction ripped out, but for prototyping, it makes things majorly easy, let me tell you!

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[Rigby]

For quick, "need this working now" type stuff, Arduino is pretty great.  I wouldn't make a product out of any of the stuff I've prototyped with Arduino, but for proof of concept stuff and demos I think they're invaluable. 

[Rufus]

I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't know what you're talking about. (I.e. Stop spouting shit from *your* pimpled ass.)

Microchip sell about 3.2 million microprocessors a day. Who do you think is buying them and who designed the circuits and boards they go in? Microchip could make processors for all the Arduinos ever made in 12 hours, who do you think keeps them busy 24/7?

Makers and the OSHW 'movement' seem to be so wrapped up in their little world tweeting, facebooking, and collaborating with each other that few have any concept of the global electronics industry and what a tiny tiny proportion of it they are.  This gross over-representation on the interwebs and new media helps to fool themselves and I suspect others. Look at Element14 who bought eagle, sponsor Ben Hecks etc and created the useless Element14 community where collaboration mostly consists of idiots bugging real EEs who are obliged or paid to participate there.

In the real world EEs are simply not allowed reveal designs to people outside their organisation which severely limits the usefulness of and need for collaboration features in design tools.   

[zapta]

Microchip sell about 3.2 million microprocessors a day. Who do you think is buying them and who designed the circuits and boards they go in?

You are mixing number of unit produced with number of designs. A mass produced design needs one schematic and so is a one-of at home hack. The number of chips sold has nothing to do with potential number of CM users.

[Rufus]

You are mixing number of unit produced with number of designs. A mass produced design needs one schematic and so is a one-of at home hack. The number of chips sold has nothing to do with potential number of CM users.

It isn't directly proportional but it still has plenty to do with it. More importantly it has plenty to do with how much money each design makes and so how much money designers have to spend on design tools.

[Precipice]

Would a fair comparison be automotive?
The volume of aftermarket stuff is tiny compared to OEM, but is still a huge and thriving market, and evidently worth servicing. Each variant design of butt-ugly hubcap, 'lexus-style' light cluster or phone holder is a design, and someone, somewhere, designed it.

I doubt Altium/CM care that most designs will never be built more than ten (or zero!) times. Heck, I suspect that only 1/3 of the designs I do in real Altium ever get made, and that's ignoring revisions. If you count the ones that actually get to mass production, I suspect it's less than 1%. This doesn't affect the fact that I pay maintenance on my Altium seats, and it doesn't affect the fact that I charge customers for designs, whether they make it to production or not.

[Zeta]

Yes, I pay for a Pro Upverter account. Clients love being able to actively collaborate on their designs. They can upload their schematic from Eagle and participate in the design review. For smaller projects I'll do the entire layout in Upverter, otherwise I use DipTrace and export/import my changes.

you gotta be kidding, right? 

Makers and the OSHW 'movement' seem to be so wrapped up in their little world tweeting, facebooking, and collaborating with each other that few have any concept of the global electronics industry and what a tiny tiny proportion of it they are.  This gross over-representation on the interwebs and new media helps to fool themselves and I suspect others. Look at Element14 who bought eagle, sponsor Ben Hecks etc and created the useless Element14 community where collaboration mostly consists of idiots bugging real EEs who are obliged or paid to participate there.

In the real world EEs are simply not allowed reveal designs to people outside their organisation which severely limits the usefulness of and need for collaboration features in design tools.

true
except collaboration is big stuff inside organizations.  a lot of times there is a guy doing the design while another does the layout,  someone else selects/approves the parts that can be used in the design and then a bunch more needs to review the design. all of them need a way to provide annotations/feedback.


What this so called OSH community members talking so passionately of "collaboration" fail to remember is that most (if not all) of the designs out there, that people like to call OSH, were actually made by a single individual working on his own time with little regard to what other people has to say and only release the design when it is done. That is true even in the OSS movement. Trying to do otherwise is stupid and a total waste of time.

Even after the design is made public most won't pay much attention to the "improvements" the "community" has to offer not to mention that what most in the "community" mean by collaboration is actually limited to downloading/building the designs someone else made or bitching others to change the design.

[timb]

Yes, I pay for a Pro Upverter account. Clients love being able to actively collaborate on their designs. They can upload their schematic from Eagle and participate in the design review. For smaller projects I'll do the entire layout in Upverter, otherwise I use DipTrace and export/import my changes.

you gotta be kidding, right? 

Pro Upverter account allow unlimited private designs. As in only myself and the client can access. I provide services for individuals/small teams and small to medium size businesses.

There is a huge market there and I will tap it if it puts food on the table. If you guys don't want to join me here in reality, well, less competition for me!


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[Batang]

What this so called OSH community members talking so passionately of "collaboration" fail to remember is that most (if not all) of the designs out there, that people like to call OSH, were actually made by a single individual working on his own time with little regard to what other people has to say and only release the design when it is done. That is true even in the OSS movement. Trying to do otherwise is stupid and a total waste of time.

Even after the design is made public most won't pay much attention to the "improvements" the "community" has to offer not to mention that what most in the "community" mean by collaboration is actually limited to downloading/building the designs someone else made or bitching others to change the design.

Exactly.

[zapta]

There is a huge market there and I will tap it if it puts food on the table.

Doesn't sound that great if you cannot afford plates. Just saying.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Lol, enjoyed that.

[Rigby]

I'm sure his use of upverter is valid.

Here's something that I think escapes us all from time to time: each of us does things differently, and each of our solutions is valid for the problem presented us.  ESPECIALLY SO if it pays.

So who gives a rats ass if Arduino production is dwarfed by microchip?  Arduino IS A VALID SOLUTION just the same as pic.  For the same problem? I don't know and I don't care.  They're freaking valid.

So drop the crap about upverter.  For him it works.  For you, it might not.  Why the hell does anyone care if upverter is used?  Why are any of you even bringing it up, like its a sign of failure?

Some of the crap that goes on in here makes me ashamed to say I'm a member of this forum.

[ozwolf]

I'm sure his use of upverter is valid.

Here's something that I think escapes us all from time to time: each of us does things differently, and each of our solutions is valid for the problem presented us.  ESPECIALLY SO if it pays.

So who gives a rats ass if Arduino production is dwarfed by microchip?  Arduino IS A VALID SOLUTION just the same as pic.  For the same problem? I don't know and I don't care.  They're freaking valid.

So drop the crap about upverter.  For him it works.  For you, it might not.  Why the hell does anyone care if upverter is used?  Why are any of you even bringing it up, like its a sign of failure?

Some of the crap that goes on in here makes me ashamed to say I'm a member of this forum.

+1

Hear, hear.

[zapta]

Some of the crap that goes on in here makes me ashamed to say I'm a member of this forum.

No shame in associating with upverter users.