EDA > Altium Designer

Running Protel 99SE on Windows 10 - Virtual Machine?

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PKTKS:

--- Quote from: free_electron on June 17, 2021, 08:29:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: PKTKS on May 18, 2021, 05:18:11 pm ---The result TODAY  attached is a small project I started in the early 80s.

--- End quote ---
Your ranting skills are top notch !

Your layout skills on the other hand. If after that many years it still looks like that you should just give up.

--- End quote ---

Thanks for the insults.. I  always use some bits  ::)

You are just not aware that after so many EDA packages...
along all this time..

I have countless "versions" of this very same (70s) design.. 
done along 80s 90s 00s.. till today

This one depicted actually is the "unmodified" all THT close
as possible the "original" one made in a paper and actually etched
.. i still have the PCB mounted here.. somewhere..

It is kinda a thing I like to keep close to the toys..

Apart that "original" I have the "modern" ALL SMD shit...
updated as well - using the very same chips and stuff

It served me so well that helped me to begin with some
EDA packages.. and eventually change them...

Other designs just followed this point of the spear

There is none and never was any goal apart the one to save
the work from the obsolescence of EDA and OS and all stuff

Nonetheless it in fact made everything possible.

So .. I really keep it "as is" in my toy scrap.

priceless.
Design was never meant any other objective..

And actually seeing it on the screen with the 70s board on the desk
bring me very good memories and things left on the way..
can not put that in words..  I made the best to keep it as
it was drawn in Accel TANGO by early 80s...

obviously it is not identical because that first Accel TANGO
was very limited considering today standards..

Folks today are very spoiled by the easy of all stuff available.

Paul  :-+

free_electron:

--- Quote from: PKTKS on June 19, 2021, 03:12:25 pm ---ALL SMD shit...

--- End quote ---

ahh, statements like this make me wonder if you really need the latest and greatest CAD software. You are clearly stuck in the mindset where thru-hole is superior. So , i can conclude you don't need mulitlayers, backdrilling , diff pairs , controlled impedance , length matching , stacked or blind and buried vias. Why do you even need KiCad or Orcad ? go find an old layout tool , let's say something from the CP/M era , run it on emulated CP/M . It should perfectly fit your needs.


--- Quote ---And actually seeing it on the screen with the 70s board on the desk

--- End quote ---
case in point. nostalgia to a simpler time ... with simpler tools.


--- Quote ---Folks today are very spoiled by the easy of all stuff available.

--- End quote ---

and... confirmed again. Stuck in nostalgia 70's thru-hole world.

Can i suggest finding a box of Bishop Graphics decals ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264761695969

Maybe some direct on copper dry decals ?
https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Piece-Rub-Resist/dp/B005T8PA1W/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

or go back to perfboard ?

Maybe even lugged terminal strips like in the real good old days of the vacuum tube.

It should fit you perfectly. You won't even need to use a computer at all. So no issues with greedy software makers , money grabbing hardware makers, endless update and upgrade cycles. Full of 70's good times, no shit SMD.

You might even want to invest in a coal stove and antique soldering irons with wood handles.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363433304495?hash=item549e5021af:g:G2AAAOSw8Etgxlge

That would make sure you don't get spoiled by all the easy stuff.

Makes me wonder why you even have electricity in the house...

PKTKS:

--- Quote from: free_electron on June 20, 2021, 01:35:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: PKTKS on June 19, 2021, 03:12:25 pm ---ALL SMD shit...

--- End quote ---
ahh, statements like this make me wonder if you really need the latest and greatest CAD software.

--- End quote ---

Not really.
In mid 90s  I had a lot of OrCAD SDT (III) and then
they diverted the workflow  to that FPGA centric paradigm..

Well despite I really acknowledge FPGA as "advance"..
it was not the time and not the primary issue (at time and up to)

If i remember correctly PROTEL had just acquired Accel and
some other IPs and took some time to transition to Altium..
That time was the best thing at time which allowed PROTEL
with incorporated Accel stuff to be a good option

Changed that by EAGLE somewhere at 2000s because the
99 version i think is a FIASCO relying on that MS shit stuff...


--- Quote from: free_electron on June 20, 2021, 01:35:38 pm ---You are clearly stuck in the mindset where thru-hole is superior (.)
(..)

--- End quote ---

Not really .. My primary electronic activity up to 2000s was
repair.. and while designing just for my toys and satisfaction..
Acquiring parts and actually etching SMD boards at that time
was not easy.

That changed a hell of a lot with the Internet from some point
in the 90s up to mid 2000s when SMD parts became wide
available...

BUT! mostly because BOARD etching services became feasible
Internet commerce changed all the stuff overnight

Today any newbie can grab a EDA "package" watch some sort
of YouTube Tutorial.. and start doing SMD shit like nuts..

FEDEX deliver that shit even already mounted. In 5 days !!!!  :palm:

geee  I was used to etch my boards w/PF acid and the silk mask part
in general took me months.. of patience and labor..

Any starter newbie can get a "latest_hot_gizmo_EDA_computer"
and youtube that and put that shit thing on the mail in some hours..

I did that a lot of times.. piece of cake..
SMD some multi layer on any EDA thing. etched in 5 days
in dozen volume and up to my door ... amazing..

What the big deal about that?

bottom line is that folks used to actually do that on the
80s and 90s already know what a little shit of 5 hours work
mean compared to a couple of  months working on design..

Things changed.. I just evolved with them...

To be honest .. Comparing a board designed today with a good
EDA soft and made in some hours to your door multilayer..
all SMD shit ..  already assembled... via UPS or FEDEX..

there is no possible way to measure skills on that..
While the latter is for kids...
the former requires a real skilled folk..

I started doing routing on a paper for Christ sake
give me a break

I see SMD as dust on the bench..
Invested a small fortune in optical tools and tweezers..

for that.... little shit...  impossible to avoid this word  ::)

Paul  :-+

Bud:
There is more than just (God forbid) autoroute some LED blinker circuit on a 10x10" board in a random EDA. There is plenty of proud boys out there laying out 6 mil  pcb tracks where 20 mil would suffice or thicker traces were required like power buses and stuff. And we even not getting to RF circuits or high speed circuits, supply rails bypassing, etc. You need to *know* this, none of EDA will do it for you.

free_electron:
I too come from the era of self etching boards.
In 1976 i drew my first layout on a scrap piece of copper clad using a decon-dalo ink pen. Etched it in Fecl , drilled the holes. Put in two npn transistors, 2 capacitors, 4 resistors and an led to make the classical two transistor oscillator to blink an led.
Do i want to go back to that time ? no. in retrospect it was messy, time consuming . but it was a great learning step for a six year old kid.

My last hobby board (not job related ) was two weeks ago. a little board with the blinky lights text "happy retirement" for my boss. made with schmitttriger inverters.
Schematic was drawn in half an hour , routed in another hour (rooms, clone , copy paste). then a couple of hours to make nice text decorations and graphics. Sent the same evening to JLCPCB in china. Boards arrive 5 days later. i soldered one by hand in an afternoon. all 0603 parts and tssops.

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