Author Topic: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!  (Read 44751 times)

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Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2011, 09:03:40 pm »
Well... I wonder what the future of hobbyist and semi-pro PCB software holds. I tried using EAGLE a bit but it's a very archaic program which is completely unintuitive...

I use KiCad, which is a free, open source program. Its user interface is not perfect, and there are some annoyances (the biggest being no link between schematic symbols and PCB footprints), but it also has no artificial limits like the free version of Eagle does. Want a 14 layer board 1m x 2m in size? No problem. Don't like Windows? No problem--it runs on Linux, FreeBSD, and Mac OS X.

I don't think it has an autorouter (never looked), but Real PCB Designers(TM) don't autoroute.
Complexity is the number-one enemy of high-quality code.
 

Offline AdShea

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2011, 02:42:39 am »
KiCAD has some weird way to export to an autorouter.  Really I want to get the toporouter ported over from gEDA.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2011, 06:16:53 pm »
Damn, that sucks... What'll be left in Australia now? Sales and not a whole lot else? Execs with dollars-in-eyes at work here, by the sound of it.

My TAFE still teaches Protel 99SE... is that indicitave of industry in this country, or the way TAFE is funded?

Both. TAFE stupidly underfunded.
Altium are stupid for not offering their software to colleges for free or a nominal fee. The more students who use it, the more employers will.

Quote
I know many companies still using 99SE because it did the job and DXP was a nightmare.
That version is also the standard in China, except that nobody pays for it, and likely never will.
I have a p1r8 copy somewhere but don't have it installed. I prefer lighter software and don't do any large/complex boards so even Protel is overkill for me.
 

Offline chscholz

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2011, 06:42:11 pm »
Some of the best (most innovative/creative/efficient successful) engineers I know are PRC born Americans.

[...]
 It is cheap right now, but sure as eggs is eggs, inflation will hit eventually, and there will be a shortage of trained and skilled people to do the jobs. Great at production, not so great at innovation.

[...]
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2011, 07:10:38 pm »
Some of the best (most innovative/creative/efficient successful) engineers I know are PRC born Americans.
same here. i think their genetic is trained to be highly independent and adaptable so they can be succesfull if you dump them anywhere on earth... except at their own country i think.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Zad

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2011, 07:21:51 pm »
Genetic ethnicity has very little to do with it. What matters most is the culture and background where you were brought up and where you live. I can't see the current situation in China promoting innovative thinking and being outside the mainstream in the same way that Europe and North America does. Equally, I think that if you put innovative people in China, you stifle their talent.

Offline Strube09

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2011, 07:29:58 pm »
I have found with my Chinese vendors that they are not very innovative. It seems in school they teach them how to do what is told and repeat.... Aka copy other's work.

Strube
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2011, 07:46:30 pm »
Well... I wonder what the future of hobbyist and semi-pro PCB software holds. I tried using EAGLE a bit but it's a very archaic program which is completely unintuitive...

I use KiCad, which is a free, open source program. Its user interface is not perfect, and there are some annoyances (the biggest being no link between schematic symbols and PCB footprints), but it also has no artificial limits like the free version of Eagle does. Want a 14 layer board 1m x 2m in size? No problem. Don't like Windows? No problem--it runs on Linux, FreeBSD, and Mac OS X.

I don't think it has an autorouter (never looked), but Real PCB Designers(TM) don't autoroute.

it can plug into a free online service that autoroutes, A bit long winded but good for quike jobs
 

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2011, 02:42:08 am »
Quote
I prefer lighter software and don't do any large/complex boards so even Protel is overkill for me.

I think discrete audio design there is no need for software unless you plan to mass produce the circuit.    8)
 

Offline the_raptor

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2011, 10:35:38 am »
Wait, since when has China produced good software*? Why would you even choose it over India which at least has a high degree of English fluency and a more Western culture?

I also hope the executives and management like living in China because outsourcing complex software doesn't work most of the time (which is why India has been regulated to cheap and nasty development mostly).

Smells like a stock pump and dump to me. Is the CEO about to have a whole bunch of shares released for sale?

* Which as others have said has nothing to do with the people and everything to do with the culture.
 

Offline gxti

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2011, 06:33:10 am »
I've been hooked on a "borrowed" copy for the past few months but this is making me think even harder about my future design tools. Cloudifying everything in version 10 to the point where there are no longer any nontrivial parts shipped on the DVD and everything is through a subscription does not help either, because now I'm stuck with what the previous version shipped, forever. Oh well, I don't mind making parts anyway.

So that leaves Eagle, which is the de-facto standard for open-source hardware (mmm, irony). Or open-source KiCAD, which is of the same ancient technology as Eagle but at least has future prospects. It'll be hard going back, that's for sure.
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2011, 10:35:49 am »
I have found with my Chinese vendors that they are not very innovative. It seems in school they teach them how to do what is told and repeat.... Aka copy other's work.

Strube


Altium can wave goodbye to any and all IP once the local R&D people start working for them. If some government technical people find out that Altium has something interesting and proprietary going on, it will only take a couple of CCP stooges to force the local R&D people to hand over the details.

And if any Altium Australians in China find something local a bit too interesting, it's suddenly espionage and they disappear for a while.

Offline tinhead

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2011, 10:41:12 am »
I've been hooked on a "borrowed" copy for the past few months but this is making me think even harder about my future design tools. Cloudifying everything in version 10 to the point where there are no longer any nontrivial parts shipped on the DVD and everything is through a subscription does not help either, because now I'm stuck with what the previous version shipped, forever. Oh well, I don't mind making parts anyway.

borrowed aha, anyway, you can download all v10 parts libs from altium wiki and for sure you can still use v9 parts libs.
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Offline the_raptor

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2011, 02:47:05 pm »
And if any Altium Australians in China find something local a bit too interesting, it's suddenly espionage and they disappear for a while.

This generally only happens if they have dual Australian/Chinese citizenship. If they aren't ethnic Chinese the PRC normally just threatens them a bit, and kicks them out. Still better then pissing off the wrong person in the UAI.
 

Offline tycz

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2011, 05:16:48 pm »
I know many companies still using 99SE because it did the job.
That version is/was also the standard in China, except that few actually paid for it.

It's still the case, I beleive. I was in Shenzhen's Book City about this time last year and found a lot of books on Protel '99 in the electronics section. There was even a video tutorial set spanning 12 VCDs. I checked publication date on one of the Protel books and was surprised to find it less than a year old!
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2011, 08:16:40 pm »
Protel '99... does anyone still have a copy of it? or somewhere to download? ;D
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Frangible

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2011, 08:18:04 pm »
With China's latest crackdown on everybody who might even have a wiff of political opposition, it seems all the more regrettable that a company from a democracy would relocate there.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2011, 08:19:58 pm »
money makes the world go round. No matter what bullshit a company tells you about commitment to customers and quality all they really care about is how much they can make
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2011, 05:06:57 am »
money makes the world go round. No matter what bullshit a company tells you about commitment to customers and quality all they really care about is how much they can make

Almost every "visionary" scheme they have ever tried has failed to work as a commercial success, and they continue to limp by on their core PCB/SCH tool.
It's rather sad, because when you have the world's best all-round EDA software (IMO), making money and taking over the world should be easy, real easy.
Yet, somehow they find every possible way of avoiding that  ::)

Dave.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 04:51:51 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2011, 05:33:17 am »
sounds like the place where I work. Usually called: "pennies wise - pounds foolish" and just too damned stupid to see the obvious and take "risks" that are not even risks
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2011, 04:45:26 pm »
If Altium decision makers wouldn't all be so fine upstanding citizens then my first guess would have been that someone has a Chinese mistress and wants to be closer to her for a daily screw. Because that would make the most sense for me.
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2011, 04:48:33 pm »
Oh well, it could be worse, they could be selling out to Microsoft. I'd hate to see what M$ would do to it.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2011, 04:52:37 pm »
I bet M$ would not even know what to do with it
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2011, 05:55:44 pm »
Speaking of which, what package does MS use?
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Tisk Tisk - Altium moving to China!
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2011, 06:01:06 pm »
Speaking of which, what package does MS use?

to do what ? as far as i know they don't make hardware. Anything with their name on is certainly outsourced
 


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