Author Topic: Four-man mission to Mars? No.  (Read 35685 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #125 on: October 30, 2014, 11:06:37 pm »
http://www.distancetomars.com/
Any questions?

Yes, what is your point?
it's not the distance, it's the time required.
A typical mars trip is in the order of 400days return. 245 days return is possible.
There is nothing really unusual here when you compare it with ocean voyages of previous centuries.
It is certainly not a stretch of the imagine to think these durations trips are not easily possible, we just have to decide to do it.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2014, 11:13:50 pm »
Don't understand that bullshit about doctors. Well, of course there is a risk that someone gets sick, but:
1. Space crew members are selected very seriously so only healthiest will pass.
2. They definitely will receive medical training, and will have remote support from experienced doctors on earth. So unless they need surgeon, there is no real use of doctor on board.

Yes. The medical excuse is a huge red herring.
It has nothing to do with whether or not the trip is possible.
It's just yet another detail that has to be considered, along with crew psychology, exercise etc.

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3. There will not be any other infections rather than those which could be taken on board before the start. -> look look paragraph 1. Therefore someone cannot catch flu, hepatitis or whatever unless it was already there.
4. Of course serious disinfection/inspection will be made so no pathological bacteria/viruses pass on board.

They could indeed be healthier and better off than us.
Us poor schmucks here on earth in the general population have to chance infections, transmitted things,  food poisoning among others things daily.

Quote
Only very serious issue is absence of earth gravity which of course negatively impacts men's health.

Any Mars trip would include artificial gravity. Usually by the rotating tethered sling idea.
 

Offline stitch

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2014, 12:41:02 am »
Don't understand that bullshit about doctors ...Therefore unless someone gets very seriously injured (where?), I don't see real problem.
shrapnel from an oxygen tank explosion as in Apollo 13 April 14, 1970,
burn from an onboard fire as in Mir Space Station February 24, 1997,
chemical burn,
electrical burn,
inhalation of toxic emissions,
broken bone during crash landing,
hypoxia,
frostbite,
systemic hypothermia,
rapid depressurization,
food poisoning,
rockpick through foot,
rockdrill through hand ...

Hey, we're only talking about prospecting, mining, and exploring a hostile planet millions of miles from Earth.  What could possibly go wrong?
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2014, 12:48:28 am »
Don't understand that bullshit about doctors ...Therefore unless someone gets very seriously injured (where?), I don't see real problem.
shrapnel from an oxygen tank explosion as in Apollo 13 April 14, 1970,
burn from an onboard fire as in Mir Space Station February 24, 1997,
chemical burn,
electrical burn,
inhalation of toxic emissions,
broken bone during crash landing,
hypoxia,
frostbite,
systemic hypothermia,
rapid depressurization,
food poisoning,
rockpick through foot,
rockdrill through hand ...

Hey, we're only talking about prospecting, mining, and exploring a hostile planet millions of miles from Earth.  What could possibly go wrong?
More than 2/3 of that = instant death  :-DD as any drill in limbs = depressurization. Or do they rockdrill their Mars base  :scared:.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #129 on: October 31, 2014, 02:19:55 am »
Quote
Any questions?

whats b, c and e?

OK that right there was hilarious!

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/why-not-space/

Well,it would have been hilarious,if you had posted that link instead of the silly "pixel" one!

Actually,the survey really only shows the abysmal ignorance of the 18-22 year age group!

Greybeards have a pretty good idea of the relative distances,as we were around for Apollo,& usually take a bit of interest in the unmanned Mars probes.

If you ever look for Mars in the night sky,it is immediately obvious that it is a hell of a long way away!
 

Offline stitch

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2014, 02:29:03 am »
2. They definitely will receive medical training, and will have remote support from experienced doctors on earth.

So let me see if I've got this right.

Suddenly one evening while Dave and Chris are relaxing in their base craft, Chris grabs his stomach and begins writhing in pain.  Dave rushes to his side and helps him lie down.  Next he gets a glass of water for Chris to drink (he's  seen that done in movies many times).  Dave takes Chris's vital signs (as he was trained to do) then radios them back to Earth along with a verbal report of Chris's symptoms.

While waiting for the radio signal to travel the distance from Mars to Earth then back again, Dave gives Chris a little more water and searches through the medical database to find out what he should do.  But he is interrupted when Chris begins to vomit.  Before the communication from Earth can arrive, Chris has turned blue, stopped breathing, and died. 

Just as Dave is breaking out a body bag, the response from earth arrives - 32 minutes from when it was sent.  It reads,
"Message received.  We're working on it.  Whatever you do, don't let him lie down, and for God's sake, don't give him anything to drink".

Is that what you mean when you say, "remote support from experienced doctors on earth"?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #131 on: October 31, 2014, 03:25:22 am »
shrapnel from an oxygen tank explosion as in Apollo 13 April 14, 1970,
burn from an onboard fire as in Mir Space Station February 24, 1997,
chemical burn,
electrical burn,
inhalation of toxic emissions,
broken bone during crash landing,
hypoxia,
frostbite,
systemic hypothermia,
rapid depressurization,
food poisoning,
rockpick through foot,
rockdrill through hand ...
Hey, we're only talking about prospecting, mining, and exploring a hostile planet millions of miles from Earth.  What could possibly go wrong?

Sure, but you are failing to understand how little mission value a real doctor would add in such scenarios over a scientist/engineer (the ones usually slated to be picked for a mars mission) who has spent many years also training for medical response.
It's not like they would send a party to mars without the crew having quite extensive medical training as well.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #132 on: October 31, 2014, 03:32:27 am »
While waiting for the radio signal to travel the distance from Mars to Earth then back again, Dave gives Chris a little more water and searches through the medical database to find out what he should do.  But he is interrupted when Chris begins to vomit.  Before the communication from Earth can arrive, Chris has turned blue, stopped breathing, and died. 

Too bad for Chris  ;D
The brown proverbial stuff happens.
So you are asserting that a fully trained and decades experienced practicing (perhaps trauma emergency response) doctor is an absolute must on a mission?
What if that doctor gets in trouble and isn't able to self-doctor? (see, I can play the thought experiment game too  ;D )

BTW, searching through a medical database could conceivably take a minute or two, in addition to the extensive medical training I would have gotten before I left. But now we are playing semantics.

 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #133 on: October 31, 2014, 03:52:25 am »

Sure, but you are failing to understand how little mission value a real doctor would add in such scenarios over a scientist/engineer (the ones usually slated to be picked for a mars mission) who has spent many years also training for medical response.
It's not like they would send a party to mars without the crew having quite extensive medical training as well.

No reason for it to be either/or. There are plenty of physicians who are also engineers and even more physician scientists . Many examples of these have already been on space missions.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #134 on: October 31, 2014, 05:51:45 am »
No reason for it to be either/or. There are plenty of physicians who are also engineers and even more physician scientists . Many examples of these have already been on space missions.

Sure, and I have explained before how that being a physician might indeed be a positive thing on a mars resume.
But we are talking about it being compulsory for at least one crew member. I (and many experts who have investigated such things extensively) argue that it's not a requirement.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #135 on: October 31, 2014, 01:22:04 pm »
Well, I guess then Mars mission is impossible without housemaid, fitness instructor and personal massagist. Otherwise conditions would be completely unbearable and too dangerous for pure engineer/scientist folks  :).
 

Offline stitch

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #136 on: October 31, 2014, 05:39:43 pm »
So you are asserting that a fully trained and decades experienced practicing (perhaps trauma emergency response) doctor is an absolute must on a mission?
Yes. Two of them.  And a general practitioner.  I would also throw in a couple of nurses, a medical suite, a galley, a cook, a warehouse, a recreation room with a ping pong table, and anything else that you might find on a submarine and the submarine's parent fleet, because that is the best example of what you would need in order the get humans to the surface of Mars and sustain them throughout the duration of the mission.

Four one-chance yahoos in a tin can without a pilot?  No.
 

Offline stitch

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2014, 06:21:22 pm »
Well, I guess then Mars mission is impossible without housemaid, fitness instructor and personal massagist. Otherwise conditions would be completely unbearable and too dangerous for pure engineer/scientist folks  :).

Yes.  Hyperbole aside, that's pretty much right.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Four-man mission to Mars? No.
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2014, 10:33:01 pm »
This tread really reminds me about Weird Al
 


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