AA battery recommendations for Fluke instruments

[hilltop]

[I accidentally posted in Metrology - probably should have been in Beginners instead. Please feel free to move the post, sorry about that.]

Hello everyone, I have a Fluke 773 milliamp process clamp meter, as well as a Fluke 17B+ multimeter.
Both meters call for Alkaline AA batteries.

My concern, especially for the 773, is that alkaline batteries tend to leak after time (maybe only when discharged?), and I don't use this meter too often due to its specialized nature.  I would be sick if an alkaline battery leaked in my $1000+ instrument, so I am seeking advice on the best batteries to use in these units.

From https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rechargeable-batteries-in-multimeters-etc/, I understand that lithium AA battery voltage could be as high as 1.8V when new, which may cause erroneous readings or damage.

However, I think rechargeable NiMH may lose their charge between uses, causing me a lot of trouble/inconvenience, since "when I need it, I need it NOW."

I would be grateful for recommendations to ensure 1) protection of the instruments, 2) accurate measurements, and 3) longevity of batteries.

Thank you!

[james_s]

Why do you think NiMH will lose their charge between uses? Modern LSD cells are around 90% charged after a year and still hold a significant charge after several years. I've been using Eneloop cells mostly for more than a decade and I have never had one leak or fail.

[hilltop]

Thanks James. So eneloop is your recommendation in this case? As I stated from the previous link I had come to understand that the rechargeable NiMH would not hold charge long enough. Thank you for correcting that misconception.

[hilltop]

Also to clarify, you feel that lithium is a bad idea?

[james_s]

Eneloop is what I mostly use, I also have some Fujitsu cells that rumor has it are made in the same factory, and some cheaper Amazon Basics cells. NiMH used to have a high self discharge rate but the low self discharge variety came out around 15 years ago with the Eneloop and now as far as I know they're almost all LSD.

The lithium cells are probably fine, I don't know, I've never tried them in that application but I bet if you contacted Fluke they would tell you. Due to the high cost I only use lithium primary cells in things like the emergency flashlight I keep in my car that I want to be confident will work when I pull it out years later. With something like a multimeter I can just swap the batteries when it starts to get low, it's not going to sit around for 10 years without being used.

[bdunham7]

Also to clarify, you feel that lithium is a bad idea?

I've used both the Energizer Ultimate Lithium and the eneloop LSD NiMH in a number of Fluke handhelds and both have been just fine.  The few Brymens that have issues with them seem to be an exceptional case.  The lithium primary cells last a bit longer than the NiMH, but surprisingly not that much longer, less than twice as long.  Given their high price and nonrechargeability, they're really not worth it except perhaps in some extreme circumstance.

[dropkick]

My Flukes that use 6AA's freak out with Lithiums. Either won't turn on or backlight won't function and other weird stuff. Don't know what else is stressed, so I just use non-Li on those.  I think with a low-cell count Li are ok, but always better to just take the batteries out if it's something used infrequently.  (Sorry I forget if it's the 289 and/or one of the network cabling testers.)

For radios, lights, emergency stuff, etc. they're good to go, but do remember things with soft power switches will drain anything over time.

NiMH does seem like a good idea.

[Berni]

I use Energizer Lithium AAs in my Agilent DMMs precisely because they do not leak.

However the meter was designed with different battery types in mind and even has a setting for it, that way the battery indicator in the corner of the screen works correctly with the different types.

But i would imagine that if a DMM takes 6 AAs that could become a problem since the slightly higher voltage of the lithium cell really starts to stack up. Perhaps you can try inserting a dummy shorted cell in one battery slot, that should bring the total voltage down to what might be expected of alkaline cells.

[J-R]

Some more information about eneloop: https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup.html
There are three current eneloop models, the eneloop pro, eneloop (white) and eneloop lite.
The pro is is rated for about 2,500mAh, standard is about 1,900mAh and the lite are about 950mAh.
While not spelled out precisely, the standard version has the best shelf life of 70% after 10 years, while the lite is 70% after 5 years and pro is 85% after 1 year.
The cells have changed slightly over the years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop


The Energizer Lithium AA capacity is about 3,500mAh and the shelf life is going to be many decades, although honestly so are alkalines in most cases.

New/charged, lithium primaries are about 1.8V, Alkaline is about 1.6V and NiMH is around 1.4V.


So, personally I would suggest trying the standard (white) eneloops for the two Flukes and agree with the sentiments that 4xAA in Lithium may be risky.

[MiDi]

Another good and cheaper option are ikea ladda, they are older gen eneloop pro.

[wraper]

Eneloop is what I mostly use, I also have some Fujitsu cells that rumor has it are made in the same factory, and some cheaper Amazon Basics cells. NiMH used to have a high self discharge rate but the low self discharge variety came out around 15 years ago with the Eneloop and now as far as I know they're almost all LSD.

The lithium cells are probably fine, I don't know, I've never tried them in that application but I bet if you contacted Fluke they would tell you. Due to the high cost I only use lithium primary cells in things like the emergency flashlight I keep in my car that I want to be confident will work when I pull it out years later. With something like a multimeter I can just swap the batteries when it starts to get low, it's not going to sit around for 10 years without being used.

Currently sold Amazon Basics are now made in China and are not eneloops (they were Japanese made eneloops a few years ago). But IKEA LADDA are the cheaper and still are eneloops made in Japan. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ladda-rechargeable-battery-hr06-aa-1-2v-00509814/ Modern Eneloops are rated to hold 70% after 10 years. 2450mAh LADDA are eneloop pro which have somewhat higher self discharge, so a worse choice if batteries are expected to last for several years on a single charge.

[wraper]

Another good and cheaper option are ikea ladda, they are older gen eneloop pro.

I guess you mean white LADDA. They are no longer sold. Now they are grey and regular capacity eneloops were introduced too.

[GLouie]

Another vote for Eneloops or equivalent. Buy from a reputable vendor to minimize getting counterfeits, and get a charger that reliably terminates a charge.
https://lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html

Anecdotally, alkaline AAs are much worse for leaking nowadays, I have banned them but keep some for emergencies, in plastic tubs.

[hilltop]

Thank you all for your helpful information.
So for eneloop cells, I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMJU
I assume Amazon is a "trusted seller" to avoid counterfeits?

Thanks!

[hilltop]

For future reference if anyone is interested, here is the "official" reply from Fluke's tech support team which I received today:

The manual clearly states that alkaline batteries are to be used in this meter. However, we have not heard of any cases where lithium batteries have caused damage. Another option is to remove the batteries when the meter is not in use. 

[Conrad Hoffman]

I've banished akaline batteries from the house. They just eventually wreck everything you put them in. All Eneloops here as they don't self-discharge to any great degree. They work in clocks and they work in power tools and anything in between. I get them from B&H Photo because they stand behind everything and are easy to deal with.

[Black Phoenix]

Currently sold Amazon Basics are now made in China and are not eneloops (they were Japanese made eneloops a few years ago).

Those Amazon Basics are GP ReCyko Pro. I can guarantee 99% because I saw them being assembled, back in 2019, in Guangzhou GP Factory.

[max-bit]

Do not use Duracell batteries (especially Industrial) they often leak!

[BillyO]

Also to clarify, you feel that lithium is a bad idea?

I've used both the Energizer Ultimate Lithium and the eneloop LSD NiMH in a number of Fluke handhelds and both have been just fine.  The few Brymens that have issues with them seem to be an exceptional case.  The lithium primary cells last a bit longer than the NiMH, but surprisingly not that much longer, less than twice as long.  Given their high price and nonrechargeability, they're really not worth it except perhaps in some extreme circumstance.

The EBL 16-pack AAA litium batteries work out to way less than 1/2 the price of the Energizers.  Last just as long too. 

[Kasper]

I bought a Klipsch stereo the other day and it came with 2 AA's from Jiafuli.  When I unboxed it, they had leaked inside the packaging. Of course I didn't notice until it spilled on the carpet etc.

[GLouie]

Thank you all for your helpful information.
So for eneloop cells, I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMJU
I assume Amazon is a "trusted seller" to avoid counterfeits?

Thanks!

Probably OK. I prefer B&H, sometimes their price is even a little better.

The battery obsessive will get a more expensive charger that can do cycle tests and check the battery's capacity. Typical counterfeits may be hard to detect visually, but usually fail capacity tests after a short time.

[wizard69]

I don't do Amazon.   My batteries are either Panasonic or whatever Harbor Freight is selling.   The Panasonics I get from DigiKey.  (there are several other Electronics supply houses to consider also)

Thank you all for your helpful information.
So for eneloop cells, I'm looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMJU
I assume Amazon is a "trusted seller" to avoid counterfeits?

Did you check to see whom the actual seller is?    I'd give DigiKey a higher rating if you want to avoid counterfeits, but even they have had issues from what I hear.   It isn't always the vendors fault when counterfeits get into the supply chain, but Amazon does require a higher awareness on the part of the buyer.

Thanks!

In some cases I've resorted to the AA lithium non rechargeables, especially for flashlights that I hope will work in the extreme cold.   Your only choice is to make decisions based on use case.

By the way one of the best things that I've done is to create a plan.   In this case it is simple, on my birthday I go around and swap out ALL batteries, rechargeable or not.   Obviously recharge the rechargeables and get rid of the year old batteries.   The thing there is to minimize the non rechargeable, in this case they are for cold weather (car or truck flashlights).

[bc888]

[/quote]The EBL 16-pack AAA litium batteries work out to way less than 1/2 the price of the Energizers.  Last just as long too. 
[/quote]

Eneloops made in japan are the brand to beat for quality as far as rechargeables (it's said that Fujitsus are made in the same factory).  I've never had one leak whereas Alkaleaks, Duracell Alkaleaks being the worst in my view) have destroyed too many of my devices. I succumbed to the "save a nickel" thought and bought a bunch of EBL's in AA. It is strange to open up a device with 4 battery's thinking that the battery's are simply low and need of a recharge and have a dead EBL in a group of good ones that have a charge. The dead ebl will not charge on a Xtar charger or a Panasonic charger whereas the rest will  charge fine. I've had that occur two times and have gone back to all Eneloops. Pay a nickel more, they're worth it.

The EBL 9V lithium rechargebles have worked great for me.