Author Topic: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills  (Read 8472 times)

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Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2018, 12:02:21 am »
Or he's got a hemp farm in his basement.
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2018, 12:58:57 am »
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-08/high-voltage-fuelling-increased-electricity-consumption/10460212  :-/O
"I was getting up once every three or four months to change light globes," he told 7.30. "And this is what led me to look at voltage.
"I'm being force-fed more electricity than I need," he said. After he realised the scale of the problem he started a company that specialises in filtering out extra voltage in homes and businesses.
7.30 visited his house in Melbourne on a day when the grid was delivering electricity at 254 volts — just above the allowable voltage limit.

I saw this segment and they didn't show 254V, it was 244V
I'd love to know how he's going to "filter out extra voltage"

 

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2018, 01:01:49 am »
Wouldn't anything with an SMPS use *less* current at higher voltages (by just varying the switching cycle) and so consume the same power? Ditto anything with a thermostat will just turn off sooner and consume the same energy. So unless he is running a lot of incandescent globes where does this $1200 figure come from?

He either made it up or is just plain wrong.

Other parts of the story were cringe worthy, interviewing a couple who said something like "we feel as though we are using extra power"  :palm:

 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2018, 01:02:00 am »
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-08/high-voltage-fuelling-increased-electricity-consumption/10460212  :-/O
"I was getting up once every three or four months to change light globes," he told 7.30. "And this is what led me to look at voltage.
"I'm being force-fed more electricity than I need," he said. After he realised the scale of the problem he started a company that specialises in filtering out extra voltage in homes and businesses.
7.30 visited his house in Melbourne on a day when the grid was delivering electricity at 254 volts — just above the allowable voltage limit.

I saw this segment and they didn't show 254V, it was 244V
I'd love to know how he's going to "filter out extra voltage"

He's gonna put a honkin' big power resistor in series with his mains feed!
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2018, 01:06:15 am »
The light globes didn't last much longer, but by now, compact fluorescent globes were being pushed hard, as having longer life, as well as being more efficient.

The lights in the video the guy was complaining about changing more frequently were in sealed enclosures.
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2018, 02:44:26 am »
Yeah this whole fact free video really annoyed me.

@EEVBlog can you do a video debunking many of the claims in this. Then ask it to be run on ABC as a response. Or even on Media Watch?

 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2018, 04:54:32 am »
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-08/high-voltage-fuelling-increased-electricity-consumption/10460212  :-/O
"I was getting up once every three or four months to change light globes," he told 7.30. "And this is what led me to look at voltage.
"I'm being force-fed more electricity than I need," he said. After he realised the scale of the problem he started a company that specialises in filtering out extra voltage in homes and businesses.
7.30 visited his house in Melbourne on a day when the grid was delivering electricity at 254 volts — just above the allowable voltage limit.

I saw this segment and they didn't show 254V, it was 244V
I'd love to know how he's going to "filter out extra voltage"

He could install a transformer as big as a fridge.

This is what CH 7 did in Perth so they could use  220/381v  Siemens transmitters on the then WA 250/433v system.

Of course, that is only a fixed reduction, but they also used , as did their neighbours up the road,
Automatic Voltage Regulators (AVRs).
These were motorised transformers which adjusted their ac output to maintain the selected level.

These were later replaced with "Power Conditioners" which do the same thing, & more.
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2018, 06:53:30 am »
I noted my solar installation was cycling on and off on particularly sunny days due to excessive voltage rise of the mainswhihc is not hard to comprehend, I am at the end of the line so anyting that got injected ahead of me would elevate the voltage.

So in desperation i wrote a letter to my MP who allegedly passed it onto the then minister for energy who is no longer the minister for that portfolio.

Dont know what happened to my letter but i noted line voltages have been reduced so much so that my inverter hardly ever drops out nowadays.

Inverter voltmeter indicates a grid voltage of 238Volts presently ( end of sunny day , 16:50 eastern standard time).

What ever and whoever ... thank You . I am generating more power now and selling it into the grid at  $0.52/kWh.
My quarterly bills are always in credit but then again I paid 11KAUD for a 5kW system.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2018, 10:12:12 am »
The usual distribution transformers have some extra taps for voltage adjustment. So the utility companies could adjust the voltage range in some ares. Those living close to a transformer might get a little higher voltage essentially all day and those at the far end might get a little low voltage under high load conditions.

With a lot of solar power send to the grid, the voltage can change a little more, as the load to the transformer is no longer 0 - 100% but could be -100% to +100 % in theory.

The utility might be tempted to set the voltage relatively high, so that PV inverters drop out because of too high a voltage on days with a lot of sun and little demand (e.g. cool sunny days).

If one would use a transformer to reduce the voltage a little, this would not have to be that large, as the transformer would only need to be rated for the current and voltage difference - so something like 5% of the power to get a 5% voltage drop.
 

Offline station240

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2018, 06:12:58 pm »
The light globes didn't last much longer, but by now, compact fluorescent globes were being pushed hard, as having longer life, as well as being more efficient.

The lights in the video the guy was complaining about changing more frequently were in sealed enclosures.

For those aware of the issue, lights inside sealed fixtures have a shorter life.
I found Halogen lamps to have massively reduced life if put inside glass lamp covers, due to overheating.
Yet as incandescent bulbs are banned in Australia (mostly), Halogen lamps appear to be a suitable replacement, but aren't in this case.

Compact Fluro bulbs aren't that much better as they contain electronics as well, and Australia only gets the crap quality ones.
That leaves LED lamps, as they produce less heat to start with.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2018, 02:10:21 am »
I haven't really noticed an issue with sealed fixtures, some of my longest lived lights are in fully enclosed fixtures. A couple of them outside where I was routinely getting ~8000 hours out of CFLs and the current LEDs I don't know because they've been installed since 2011 and none have failed yet running dusk till dawn every night. The thing that helped the CFL life greatly was infrequent starts. Incandescent I have a hard time believing a fully enclosed fixture would significantly affect the lifespan but it's been so long since I've used a standard incandescent lamp I don't even know anymore. I phased them out fully almost 20 years ago and it always surprises me when I hear of someone still using them for general illumination.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2018, 05:01:47 am »
That story was a hoot. Thanks for sharing. Is ABC trying to compete with Bloomberg to make the biggest fluff news? :-DD

Bloomberg still wins, though.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 05:03:36 am by bitseeker »
TEA is the way. | TEA Time channel
 

Offline Kasper

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2018, 07:51:29 am »
Or he's got a hemp farm in his basement.
:-+
A well air conditioned one.
 

Offline timenutgoblin

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2019, 05:05:35 am »
i tried the idea of using a transformer to increase/decrease the mains AC voltage at the GPO and realised that the net effect is that not only does the appliance consume energy in order to operate but the transformer also consumes energy in order to produce an EMF that can then push against the mains AC voltage at the GPO to power the appliance resulting in more energy being consumed overall than simply powering the appliance directly from a GPO without the transformer.

in principle yes lowering the mains AC voltage may reduce the energy consumption of an appliance but using a transformer to achieve this is uneconomical. YMMV...
 

Offline Berni

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2019, 06:42:24 am »
You can adjust the mains voltage with a transformer quite efficiently if you use a trick.

If you want to turn 230V into 220V what you can do is take a 220V to 10V transformer, connect the primary to the input 230V but then connect the secondary in series with the input. Depending on the phasing you then get 220V or 240V on the other side.

All the actual power is flowing trough the thick wire secondary of the transformer. On a small 40VA transformer would be designed for 4A 10V. So we can have 240V 4A on the output and that's 960VA. So you are using a 40W rated transformer to transform 1kW. Not much heat is produced and you can use a bigger more overrated transformer to reduce losses further.

This trick however only works for small voltage differences. If you tried to turn 110V into 220V then your transformer would need to be rated for 500VA to handle 1000VA of output. But for the purpose of regulating mains you only really need +/- 30V of adjustment range. Just add a circuit that adjusts the voltage and phase going into the transformer primary and you can vary your 220V mains from 190V to 250V for 10kW output with a device the size of a shoe box.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2019, 07:07:39 am »
i tried the idea of using a transformer to increase/decrease the mains AC voltage at the GPO...

I keep doing a double take every time I see people referring to the GPO in the context of electricity. What has the General Post Office to do with the electrical supply?
 
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2019, 07:41:36 am »
GPO == general purpose Outlet...the gozauta hole for lectric
 

Offline Psi

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2019, 07:49:04 am »
Yeah, $1,200 more because the voltage is a tad high – ROFL, and I bet he’s got something to sell. It's a bullshit article

I bet he failed to correctly account for all the appliances that produce heat.
Probably just said, X more volts = Y more amps in appliance X so i'm paying Z more money.
Won't have considered things like the cloths dryer drawing more power yes, but taking less time to dry your clothes. Or the stove elements drawing more power but for shorter bursts due to thermostat.

He'll probably get it fixed and become annoyed that his jug/kettle is taking too long to boil water now  :-DD
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 07:52:35 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2019, 08:21:20 am »
What I haven't seen anyone discuss is the effect of a high or low voltage on the electricity meter. How do they work and what do they actually measure?

I know the output is labelled as kWh, but is it really? Or do they actually measure (integrate) amps and just assume the voltage is 240? What happens if you put a meter calibrated for 240V on a 110V supply? Does it still get the kWh about right, or does it over-read the kWh by a factor of 2, or something else?

If the meter is actually measuring amps, and the house has most of the load from things that adjust for higher voltage by lowering the current or lowering the duty cycle (and thus average current) -- if that's how it works then he' might be being *undercharged* for energy use.
 

Online oPossum

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2019, 09:36:32 am »
Mechanical and electronic power meters both measure actual Watts.

Here is an explanation of how the mechanical meters do it:


 

Offline LapTop006

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 02:17:36 pm »
I have to wonder how much electricity costs and how much he's using in order to get an extra $1200 a year. $1200 is significantly more than I spend on electricity a year in total!

AU$1200 a year is a bit less than what I pay for power in Sydney despite electric cooking, hot water, and an old fridge that probably wastes a few kilowatt hours a day (no aircon though).

Roughly a quarter of my bill is the fixed charge, the rest ~9kWh/day usage (31c per kWh).

Probably time to do a plan comparison again.
 

Online Doctorandus_P

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 04:48:57 pm »
Is that:
https://www.abc.net.au/news
a legit site which blundered or is it a fake news site?  :-//

I do feel sad for the guy which solar panel installation shuts down because of over voltage, but my first question would be if it is the right system and rated for Australian Mains voltage instead of the Cheapes Chinesium.

If they all start adding transformers in the way Big Clive suggests, this wont happen, but Australia has lots of sun and everybody's solar panels pushing more voltage onto the mains could become a big problem if enough people start doing this.

Worldwide unified mains Voltage (and frequency and plugs) is a good thing. The world is just getting too small for all this shit.
Even in the Americans, where inches are still being used, it seems that split phase transformers to upp the nominal 110Vac to somewhat near the worldwide more common 230Vac seems to become more common.

Edit:
Glanced at some random articles on that ABC news site and it does not seem to be much better than those notoriously bad Brittisch pulp news sites.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 05:07:10 pm by Doctorandus_P »
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 11:25:30 pm »
Worldwide unified mains Voltage (and frequency and plugs) is a good thing. The world is just getting too small for all this shit.
Even in the Americans, where inches are still being used, it seems that split phase transformers to upp the nominal 110Vac to somewhat near the worldwide more common 230Vac seems to become more common.

I've heard even the yanks run things like ovens and clothes dryers off 230, so it must be generally available in homes.

I'm in the process of moving there, and wondering whether I could get that run to a few NZ/Aus style sockets. For a decent electric kettle, if nothing else.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2019, 12:23:42 am »
Worldwide unified mains Voltage (and frequency and plugs) is a good thing. The world is just getting too small for all this shit.
Even in the Americans, where inches are still being used, it seems that split phase transformers to upp the nominal 110Vac to somewhat near the worldwide more common 230Vac seems to become more common.

I've heard even the yanks run things like ovens and clothes dryers off 230, so it must be generally available in homes.

I'm in the process of moving there, and wondering whether I could get that run to a few NZ/Aus style sockets. For a decent electric kettle, if nothing else.

Locally approved 240v sockets are available in the USA.
The plugs are a bit fiddly to connect compared to Oz ones, though (madly over engineered).
 

Online oPossum

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Re: ABC News posted a story re: Jacked Mains Voltage is increasing power bills
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2019, 12:54:37 am »
I've heard even the yanks run things like ovens and clothes dryers off 230, so it must be generally available in homes.

I'm in the process of moving there, and wondering whether I could get that run to a few NZ/Aus style sockets. For a decent electric kettle, if nothing else.

240V is available in almost every home in the USA. Has been for a long time. The main power feed is 240V split phase, so 120V and 240V are both available. 240V in the kitchen isn't common, but an electrician could take care of that for you. There are several standard 240V plugs and sockets from 15A to 50A.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:56:10 am by oPossum »
 


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