EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: ant907 on February 16, 2016, 11:04:14 am
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I am about to start my electrical and electronics engineering course which I have wanted to do since I was a kid. But from doing some research it looks like jobs in the field are declining. I really want to do EE but I also want a job after I get the degree. Should I move forward with the course? Or defer to something different like software?
My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
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Its far far easier to outsource software development and maintenance overseas than it is to outsource hardware, so if you are considering a second preference, don't make it software engineering. OTOH EE + software would be a very strong combo, as engineers that have a deep understanding of analog, digital and embedded programming are not so common nowadays. However if the local market isn't recruiting fresh EE graduates, you will be screwed, so do your research on local and regional hi-tech employers and whether they are growing or down-sizing first!
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Its far far easier to outsource software development and maintenance overseas than it is to outsource hardware, so if you are considering a second preference, don't make it software engineering. OTOH EE + software would be a very strong combo, as engineers that have a deep understanding of analog, digital and embedded programming are not so common nowadays. However if the local market isn't recruiting fresh EE graduates, you will be screwed, so do your research on local and regional hi-tech employers and whether they are growing or down-sizing first!
Thanks for the advice! I live in South Australia so looked on job search websites to see what jobs are available and found that there are a few firms looking for Graduate engineers such as the Australian sub-marine corp. But it is hard to judge through these website as i wont finish my degree until 2020
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which I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
You just answered your own question right there. Don't be too concerned about your degree getting you a job unless you have something very specific in mind, good people will get good jobs.
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which I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
You just answered your own question right there. Don't be too concerned about your degree getting you a job unless you have something very specific in mind, good people will get good jobs.
The problem is that nowadays as far as HR-droids are concerned the lack of a degree implies a riskier hiring decision. That can be very significant early in a career when a CV without a degree is being compared with a CV with a degree. Yes, CV != person, but HR-droids filter CVs, not people.
Once you have demonstrable achievements under your belt and/or within a company, lack of a degree is less of an obstacle.
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I would say it would be more accurate to say that it's evolving than declining. Tools are getting more efficient and more peripherals are moving on-chip. Then there's integration companies who can make due with wiring together a bunch of COTS equipment together to do what they want, maybe spin some adapter boards to make wiring easier.
However, EEs do more than board level design. Firmware engineers are most likely to be EEs since it requires knowledge and experience of what's happening on the bare metal. EEs are also controls or system engineers. So there's most likely to be a lot of openings in the robotics industry.
For most jobs moving forward, regardless of your major, it will most likely be a multidisciplinary effort. Even mechanical engineers will likely find themselves doing some programming.
I would advise doing the EE and then focus on controls and programming. There would undoubtedly be some optional coursework called just that: controls, mechatronics, embedded programming, etc.
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I graduated as an EE during a downturn in my local market. A lot of peers had trouble getting a job, but I didn't. It turned out that participating in a research group on campus gave me a lot of practical experience others lacked, as well as gave me padding on the resume and a network of alumni to call upon. It was a lot of extra work, and I made less than minimum wage doing it, so you will need to be passionate about the field or else you will burn out.
Also I want to further emphasize what others have recommended in acquiring skills beyond the mandated curriculum. Specifically, if you can become semi-competent at programming that will set you apart from other candidates. If you have a particular dream job in mind, that will help determine which genre of programming you should steer towards, although any programming skill is largely transferable between platforms.
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which I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
You just answered your own question right there. Don't be too concerned about your degree getting you a job unless you have something very specific in mind, good people will get good jobs.
The problem is that nowadays as far as HR-droids are concerned the lack of a degree implies a riskier hiring decision. That can be very significant early in a career when a CV without a degree is being compared with a CV with a degree. Yes, CV != person, but HR-droids filter CVs, not people.
Once you have demonstrable achievements under your belt and/or within a company, lack of a degree is less of an obstacle.
To clarify, I'm suggesting he goes with the degree he wants to do, not to forget the idea altogether, but having one isn't that much of an advantage in the job market although some institutions will specify 'must be educated to degree level in relevant discipline' or similar. Most IT jobs (here in the Uk) which are looking for specific skills will say so very specifically, and these will always be professional skills, not generic ones you learn at uni.
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To clarify, I'm suggesting he goes with the degree he wants to do, not to forget the idea altogether, but having one isn't that much of an advantage in the job market although some institutions will specify 'must be educated to degree level in relevant discipline' or similar.
Understood and accepted.
Most IT jobs (here in the Uk) which are looking for specific skills will say so very specifically, and these will always be professional skills, not generic ones you learn at uni.
And, my, doesn't that turn out well and lead to quality software :(
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I think you are the kind of person who will be successful. The warnings about it not being remunerative are real and are based on deskilling, etc. but those same issues will apply to all the professions that used to be paid well, they are all under attack. So you should learn the area you like, and devote your time to doing it because its fun and you really can't stop yourself, its a happy disease.
People like yourself will do okay. its the people who enter the field just to make money who will be struggling because when they get home at night the last thing they will want to do is electronics, while you will likely be working on projects of your own and sucking up knowledge and skills all that time.
A few years down the road, you'll be way ahead. OTOH, if you don't get the degree, you'll still have the love of it but you likely wont have the math you need and you also wont have the credentials you really (more often than not) will need.
You might have great ideas but others will take credit for them and you will forever wish you had gotten that EE.
Quote from: ant907 on Today at 06:04:14 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=63146.msg870662#msg870662)I am about to start my electrical and electronics engineering course
which I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
But from doing some research it looks like jobs in the field are declining. I really want to do EE but I also want a job after I get the degree. Should I move forward with the course? Or defer to something different like software?
My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
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I am about to start my electrical and electronics engineering course which I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
Stop right there. You already answered your own question.
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I have wanted to do since I was a kid.
Wow! You're lucky! Go For It!
But from doing some research it looks like jobs in the field are declining. I really want to do EE but I also want a job after I get the degree. Should I move forward with the course? Or defer to something different like software?
Hm... possibly true but there will always be some jobs and those engineering skills are highly transferable, do some embedded programming along the way and you will be hedged.
My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
That's a great plan. Whatever you do.... do something. Projects on the side, blogs, open source HW & SW,.... Not only will you have an interest you might stumble on something which will keep you occupied for quite a while and pay the bill$ too.
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Or defer to something different like software?
There is far less difference between embedded software and digital hardware than you might think. In many cases something can be implemented in either, and it is good to know both in order to choose the best combination. Too many people specialise too early and know something about a very narrow field. Choose a course that doesn't limit your future options - or rather only closes options that you will never care about.
In all cases the non-technical project stuff is very very similar.
My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
Good. Just choose something that stretches you out of your comfort zone, then do it, make many many mistakes - and be able to discuss what you got right and what would do better next time. That demonstrates you are self-aware and do more than is necessary because you like it.
Don't forget that the important non-technical skills can be gained from any leisure activity. For example my daughter was able to demonstrate safety awareness, team working, initiative, learning, and calmness under pressure by joining a gliding club and learning to fly.
Note the emphasis on "demonstrating", as opposed to making unjustified statements - very important in your CV.
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So while having a degree is nice because the HR droids will appreciate the credential, the real value of a degree is in the stuff you are taught.
I wouldn't be able to function at my workplace without the knowledge I learned at university.
University is the easiest, quickest, most straightforward way to upgrade your knowledge by a huge amount. It's a proven recipe.
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I am about to start my electrical and electronics engineering course which I have wanted to do since I was a kid. But from doing some research it looks like jobs in the field are declining. I really want to do EE but I also want a job after I get the degree. Should I move forward with the course? Or defer to something different like software?
My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
The important thing about studying for a degree in engineering is that it should open the way to a professional career (think doctors, lawyers, architects, and so on). This means having responsibility; responsibility for designs, for costs, for safety, for people, for legal compliance, for schedules and so on. With such responsibility comes (or ought to) an appropriate level of pay.
Not all jobs will be like that of course, and you don't start there on the first day of your career. You will have to seek them out as your experience grows, and maybe even move overseas to find them (many Australians emigrate in order to further their engineering career, given restricted opportunities inside the country).
So don't be pessimistic about this, and don't worry about job statistics. The picture could be quite different after you graduate, and good candidates always find jobs. Also, don't switch from EE to software. As an EE you are much better placed to get into those positions with responsibility and commensurate pay. (Although, you may need to aim for civil and infrastructure projects, industrial design and power systems to find those opportunities, rather than electronics design.)
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My current plan is to get high grades, engage in community projects and to gain a lot of experience through internships to stand out from other engineers in order to obtain a job by the end.
As a personal anecdote, I found that I couldn't get high grades and engage in the extracurricular activities to the level I wanted. Some people can do it, but if you find that you are not one one of them, weigh your efforts towards your end goals - lean more to your grades if you want to continue in academia or if you want to start your career at a big business (that can often impose stringent minimum GPA requirements as means for filtering through resumes). Alternatively, lean more towards gaining practical experience if you want to pursue something closer to a start-up environment where they will likely care more about a demonstrated ability to face real-world challenges.
Don't let this be an excuse to let your grades tank, but don't freak out if your grades aren't exceptional. I also went into EE because it had been a hobby since I was a kid. The first couple of years I really struggled with the math and felt discouraged that maybe it wasn't for me after all. I stuck it out beyond the weed-out years, got decent (but not exceptional) grades, found that I really excelled in the practical aspects of the field and it all ended up working out.
Again, all anecdotal, I'm sure there are or will be significant differences in your pursuit. But I think I would have liked to have this perspective conveyed to me when I was going through it all.
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Thanks for all the replies and advice. In my course there is a broad range of classes such as programming, VLSI Design, renewable energy and industrial actuation so its not to focused all in one field.
EE is what I want to do at the end of the day, so i rather do that than slave a way at a job for the rest of my life just for the cash waiting for the weekend to come.
Cheers,
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When you become an EE (or any other kind of engineer) you don't wait for job listings, you make offers to companies.
You will soon find that 90% of jobs NEVER get listed.
As an add on, from what I gather, in Oz you need a certification to change plugs, do wiring. So if it's not a big deal, I would do that too, so you have the added value of not having to wait on a sparky to get things done.
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I've quit my university half way, for some reasons that one day I may or may not understand.
Now I am kind of miserable.
You don't always get second chances.