Absolutely overwelmed by oscilliscope features & prices for a basic scope

[Aldo22]

The FNIRSI is first nerfed by the god awful software.  The screen can't even render waveforms even if the front end can sample them. The front end gets to about 20Mhz with -3db attentuation.  Above 50Mhz is useless and the waveform rendering packs in.

I know that “from above” all junk piles look the same height,  but just so there's no misunderstanding, the Hantek DSO2000 can do things the Fnirsi 1014D can't even dream of.
It's also made on a tight budget of course, but if you can buy it for ~$150, it delivers in my opinion.

For example, as a “100MHz” scope it is capable of measuring 200MHz even in 2-channel mode (@500MSa/s Image 1). I'm not talking about -3dB, but it doesn't show total garbage or wrong frequencies like the Fnirsi would.

Or it can measure the frequency of a sine wave <1mVpp (Image 2). Again, a 1014D definitely can't do that.

It is simply a $130/$150 scope. For this price, it's just good enough. For $300+ there are much better scopes.

[pdenisowski]

You could buy an analogue scope for $40 or more. You'd need to be satisfied it worked and was more or less in calibration. You might find that's all you need. It could develop problems you wouldn't want to fix, because they are all old now.

And then you would need to buy a modern DSO to troubleshoot your analog scope

[tautech]

You could buy an analogue scope for $40 or more. You'd need to be satisfied it worked and was more or less in calibration. You might find that's all you need. It could develop problems you wouldn't want to fix, because they are all old now.

And then you would need to buy a modern DSO to troubleshoot your analog scope

Yup, seems we've both been there and earned the darn T shirt.     

[Zenith]

You could buy an analogue scope for $40 or more. You'd need to be satisfied it worked and was more or less in calibration. You might find that's all you need. It could develop problems you wouldn't want to fix, because they are all old now.

And then you would need to buy a modern DSO to troubleshoot your analog scope

Actually you wouldn't. You often find you need a scope to fix a scope, but it usually doesn't need to be a very good one.

I think the OP would be best served by spending $330 on the DHO800.

[m k]

Mechanicals are many times omitted.

I have around 5x2m room with "road encumberance" to balcony.
5 is fine but 2 is not enough for two chairs.
2 probably could be fine but then it needs completely other furniture.

80cm table is not enough for almost any old style CRO.
Only possibility is to tilt or move it to some direction, my version is face up and under a table with wheels.

Tilting is not so big problem if you don't have classes.
If you always have had your glasses you're different from me, I've had glasses only some years and I've not yet learned to turn my head.
Means also that sight is out of sight in no time, if direction is somewhere else than front of glasses.

It doesn't help that my probe tips are bulky, means that moving a head too much jeopardizes the position of the probe.
Checking old style parallel bus is a good example.
Never tried a hand mirror, could be practical, maybe not.

[tggzzz]

You could buy an analogue scope for $40 or more. You'd need to be satisfied it worked and was more or less in calibration. You might find that's all you need. It could develop problems you wouldn't want to fix, because they are all old now.

And then you would need to buy a modern DSO to troubleshoot your analog scope

Not necessarily.

Most faults (other than cracked cases/knobs) are electrolytic capacitors (diagnose with voltmeter measuring both DC and AC), and gummed up switched.

The most interesting fault I had was a 465 that was working well, except it was doing a very good impersonation of a torch: it cast a shadow on the opposite wall without the lights being dimmed Turned out to be the grid had become disconnected inside the CRT. Worked out the fault had to be inside the CRT (not any of the EHT components) using only a simple voltmeter. Took a lot of time, but it was an interesting puzzle. Not recommended for beginners!

But more realistically, a beginner should only buy working equipment - and that is true for not only old equipment, but also brand new equipment.

Now, what was that about buggy firmware?

[tggzzz]

Mechanicals are many times omitted.

I have around 5x2m room with "road encumberance" to balcony.
5 is fine but 2 is not enough for two chairs.
2 probably could be fine but then it needs completely other furniture.

80cm table is not enough for almost any old style CRO.
Only possibility is to tilt or move it to some direction, my version is face up and under a table with wheels.

10m². That big? I really envy you.

My room is 6.6m² (2.3*2.9m).
My worktop is a repurposed kitchen worktop with Ikea legs. 62cm deep.
All my scopes fit, e.g. Tek 485, Tek 2465, Tek 1502, HP 1740, Philips 3410, HP/Agilent 53310A, Tek 492, HP 8562A, Tek TDS710, - albeit not all at the same time
I really must sell some.

Personally I wouldn't have any equipment that requires wheels; it would be too difficult/dangerous to get them upstairs.

[bdunham7]

Not necessarily.

Most faults (other than cracked cases/knobs) are electrolytic capacitors (diagnose with voltmeter measuring both DC and AC), and gummed up switched.

But more realistically, a beginner should only buy working equipment - and that is true for not only old equipment, but also brand new equipment.

Now, what was that about buggy firmware?

There are numerous threads here from new users that have purchased an analog scope and are asking for help repairing it.  The apparent success rate has not been high despite a serious effort on their part and the people here attempting ot help.  Out of the dozen or so CROs I've repaired (or tried to) recently only one had "bad capacitors" sufficient to actually cause the issues making the scope unusable and even that one had more issues.  I've had broken/bad switches, bad solder joints, bad hybrid ICs, damaged CRT, bad flex circuit board, failed transistors, calibration battery failure, etc etc.  And those are the ones I have fixed.  I still have a few in the queue that need advanced help.

I haven't seen or heard of any firmware issues in products by Rigol/Silent/GW Instek et al that are so severe that a new user would even notice them, let alone be unable to use the DSO.  Now if you're talking about Fnirsi or Vevor, well....

[Siwastaja]

As always,

ignore advice of buying an analog scope.

It's a practical joke many experienced guys play on the poor young players. You can buy an analog scope later for a toy or some niche uses, but it's so much more limited instrument for general purpose design/prototyping/repair work of 2000's so that you have to buy a DSO anyway so better get that one first.

Getting rid of that, usually any modern day DSO, even a fairly cheap Chinese one, will work fine, until you know exactly what the specs mean and need something more specific. The biggest issues in cheap scopes are related to less responsive user interfaces, small bugs etc. These are not showstoppers. The advantage of a cheap unit is that you are not wasting a lot of money for nothing. You will later understand all the specs.

[watchmaker]

As a very novice amateur, I agree that if the extra $250 for a spanking new digital scope is not a barrier over the $100 for a used analog in good condition, then the $250 is money well spent.

On the other hand, by choosing my sellers, I have two good 100MHz Kenwood scopes that worked out of the box.  I did learn much from adjusting them per the service manuals.  Earlier I bought one other scope for $50 that had a weak channel 2. Hoped it was in the preamp, but it is not and since I have 2  others, It is now not even a distraction.  Shame, but....

I keep on my bench the Siglent and Kenwood.  I like the Siglent because it can easily be put within reach, the Kenwood, not so much.  But until I watched the Keysight videos linked toward the end of the post Charlotte started (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2XuMA5AwNUznkBE46tcZAF3p5Edxgm-z) I was always confused about how to manually set up my Siglent.

While I agree that a new digital scope (especially the new ones out this year) is something you can grow into (as  my mother said when it came to shoes and pants), the learning curve is steeper.  But the Keysight playlist goes a long way to making the climb easier.

Just my thoughts as a mature (maybe?) learner who is navigating all of this.

[nsummy]

Its an 54645A 100MHz-200 MSa/s.  I have read the sampling rate should be 5x the MHZ.  Would this be a bad buy?  The price is certainly right.

This is the sort of thing I'd typically advise you to avoid--an early non-hybrid DSO--because of both reliability and capability problems.  However, I'd make an exception for this one because it looks like it is in good shape and works, IIRC it is well documented ( https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2054645A,%2054645D%20User%20&%20Service.pdf ) and it will do the things you need it to reasonably well.

It has 1Mpts memory and Megazoom, so although it isn't the 10 to 200Mpts you might get with a modern scope, it is enough for many frames of capture in most cases.  The sampling rate only allows for a 50MHz bandwidth for single-shot captures.  For repetitive waveforms only it uses Equivalent Time Sampling (ETS) to acquire a waveform over multiple captures that are just a bit offset from each other.  If you only want to spend $129, then this is going to be a better idea than some new steaming pile of junk that doesn't, never did and never will work properly.

I went ahead and bought it.  Thank you also Wallace Gasiewicz & Benta and everyone else for the advice.  This will probably be a quick stepping stone for me to get my feet wet before I buy a siglent or rigol.  I'm a big believer in the "buy once, cry once" philosophy but want to learn on something quick & simple.

[tggzzz]

While I agree that a new digital scope (especially the new ones out this year) is something you can grow into (as  my mother said when it came to shoes and pants), the learning curve is steeper.  But the Keysight playlist goes a long way to making the climb easier.

Just my thoughts as a mature (maybe?) learner who is navigating all of this.

That's a sensible perspective.

Good tutorials play a valuable role in education, and hence are to be welcomed.

There are too many half-baked explanations/tutorials nowadays, unfortunately. It can be difficult for the inexperienced to short the wheat from the chaff.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

I think you will be happy with the unit, Just make sure you have appropriate probes and only use 10X probes for now.   
If you are going to purchase probes, people here can be helpful.   
I have used scopes like the one you have purchased and the only thing that I really do not like is the GREEN screen.  Reminds me of old computer screens.
If you tire of it, you can probably sell it and only take a minimal loss, which will be cheap compared to the experience you gain.   


OH  Aldo, thanks for your comment about bandwidth, my experience was that the bandwidth of a digital scope always fell off drastically after the advertised limit.  It does so on my Agilent 54820. I guess it a bit like the analog scopes, you never know about the upper limit till you try the scope (and the probes).

[jonpaul]

suggest simple 2 ch 10..20 MHz analog scope to start.

We have bought the fine German Hameg HM103, 204, 205 at street markets and fleas for EU 5, 25, 40!

All were from 1980s and worked fine, still using them

Check Ham fleas and local ads like Craig List (USA) or PaP.fr, le bon coin (France)

AVOID shipping any scope with a CRT.

Jon

[Aldo22]

OH  Aldo, thanks for your comment about bandwidth, my experience was that the bandwidth of a digital scope always fell off drastically after the advertised limit.  It does so on my Agilent 54820. I guess it a bit like the analog scopes, you never know about the upper limit till you try the scope (and the probes).

I've recorded the frequency response with my SCPI script “just for you” (and a little bit for myself). 
It is of course not a professional measurement, the source is the TinySA Basic and V/div is 500mV.

It doesn't look exactly flat, but it is above -3dB up to approx. 165MHz.
The fluctuations before are 1.5dB max. (scale is on the left, ignore the green line and phase scale).
Are more expensive scopes better (flatter frequency response)? I suspect so, but I have no idea.

Anyway, it's within specs, afaics.