Author Topic: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help  (Read 3232 times)

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Offline Sammy

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Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« on: February 25, 2015, 04:19:44 pm »
Im so novis i electronics,. But i do it anyway :)

Okey. to be honest, this is really what i want to do. So i have made a new change the layout on the schematics.

0.1 The sampler is going to be built in the guitar.
1. How many Diods (not light diods ) does it ned for this SCHEMATIC.
2. I dont want the signal from guitar (1) go trough Sampler (2).
3. obvious i dont want the signal from Sampler (2) go trough guitar (1).
4. The signal from Guitar (1) and Sampler (2)should "modulate each other, not merge/mix/blend" and shall go straight to the Amplifier.
Yes of course the sounds from the sampler will get the same effects as the guitar ( distortion/reverb etc, or what ever you have dialed in on the amplifier, and YES  ::)that's what i want:)
5. No i dont whant to use a "DI box/linebox/mixer/etc". i want to hardwire it. one reason is to educate me and understand more.
6. if i need Diods, what kind do i need, so it does not affect the sound quality.

Be gentle with me  :-// im Learning.

Sammy.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 05:37:21 pm by Sammy »
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 04:23:24 pm »
The signals from your guitars are AC. Diodes are only good for stopping DC. Therefore your concept has a fundamental flaw.

Offline Robartes_m

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 04:24:29 pm »
IMO this won't work, because:

- the output of the guitar pickups is AC, so you would effectively be rectifying your signal instead of passing it unmodified
- a guitar pickup will put out 1V RMS at the very highest (and that's for active ones). A diode will take away 0.6 to 0.7V, so most of your signal will be gone


 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2015, 04:33:57 pm »
Many thanks for the answers  :-+
so can it be solved in Another way ?
 

Offline picandmix

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2015, 05:16:35 pm »
Don't you really needs something like this, probably cheaper than trying to build your own.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-MX22A-2-Channel-Line-Mixer-/321676692360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae56ccb88
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 05:18:42 pm »
It can't be solved passively.  Guitar electronics are essentially big RLC circuits. You can't just connect them up without unwanted interaction.  The right way to do it is to buffer each guitar, and then mix them.

edit:
This applied to the original diagram of two bass guitars connected to each other...the new diagram is problematic for other reasons :)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 09:45:29 pm by John Coloccia »
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 05:21:59 pm »
Don't you really needs something like this, probably cheaper than trying to build your own.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-MX22A-2-Channel-Line-Mixer-/321676692360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae56ccb88

That will probably load down the pickups way too much.  You typically want something designed specifically for guitar.

You'll want something like this:
http://www.morleypedals.com/dabymix.html

Here's the schematic.  The inputs are essentially JFet buffered through the TL072.
http://www.morleypedals.com/abymixes.pdf

Personally, I'd make U1 an LM833 instead of a TL072.  Buffering the guitar signal with a BJT often times works better than a JFet, for a number of reasons.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 05:32:44 pm by John Coloccia »
 

Offline jlmoon

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Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 05:43:21 pm »
Don't you really needs something like this, probably cheaper than trying to build your own.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-MX22A-2-Channel-Line-Mixer-/321676692360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae56ccb88

Absolutely i see what u mean.
But i want so Little things as possible built in the guitar.
Btw sorry because you didn't know the whole story. sorry again, i owe you beer.  8)
 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 05:54:53 pm »
It can't be solved passively.  Guitar electronics are essentially big RLC circuits. You can't just connect them up without unwanted interaction.  The right way to do it is to buffer each guitar, and then mix them.

I Think i know what you mean "
It can't be solved passively" 
Are u mean  something like a active "gizmo/gadget" to built on a little solder board maby?

big RLC Circuits.  There you got me lost ?? :o
 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2015, 06:00:59 pm »
Don't you really needs something like this, probably cheaper than trying to build your own.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolls-MX22A-2-Channel-Line-Mixer-/321676692360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae56ccb88

That will probably load down the pickups way too much.  You typically want something designed specifically for guitar.

You'll want something like this:
http://www.morleypedals.com/dabymix.html

Here's the schematic.  The inputs are essentially JFet buffered through the TL072.
http://www.morleypedals.com/abymixes.pdf

Personally, I'd make U1 an LM833 instead of a TL072.  Buffering the guitar signal with a BJT often times works better than a JFet, for a number of reasons.



Absolutely i see what u mean whith the Morley pedal.
But i want so Little things as possible built in the guitar.
Btw sorry because you didn't know the whole story. sorry again, i also owe you beer.  8)

"U1 an LM833 instead of a TL072.  Buffering the guitar signal with a BJT often times works better than a JFet, for a number of reasons"
Have no clue about all that. pure hyroglifics for me ;D
 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 06:07:23 pm »
I would think this: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alesis-MultiMix-4-USB-4-Ch-Stereo-Mixer-w-USB-/261741964151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf1096b77

would be much more appropriate.

Absolutely i see what u mean whith mixerboard.
But i want so Little things as possible built in the guitar.
Btw sorry because you didn't know the whole story. sorry again, i also owe you beer,but you have to stand in line, lots of free beer today  8)
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 06:08:46 pm »
It can't be solved passively.  Guitar electronics are essentially big RLC circuits. You can't just connect them up without unwanted interaction.  The right way to do it is to buffer each guitar, and then mix them.

I Think i know what you mean "
It can't be solved passively" 
Are u mean  something like a active "gizmo/gadget" to built on a little solder board maby?

big RLC Circuits.  There you got me lost ?? :o

Guitar electronics consist of a big inductor (the pickups), resistors (tone and volume pots), and at least one cap (the tone cap).  RLC stands for Resitance Inductance Capacitance.  It's output impedance is high as well.  What all of this means is that it's a very fragile signal.  Whatever you connect it to has the potential to mess up the signal, either through attenuating it in various ways, or even changing the resonant frequency of the pickups.

In other words, for the thing to work right, you need to plug it into relatively high impedance input, and you want to be careful that you don't mess things up with random capacitors and things like that.

Guitar buffering most often takes the form of a cap feeding either a transistor (often just a BJT) or an opamp.  In the schematic you see, the input cap and first resistor both filter the signal (it's pretty wide open in this case), set the input impedance, and biases the opamp.  That's pretty much boilerplate for buffering a guitar signal.

Just reading through your responses, I think if you want to build something like this, you need to start with basic electronics.  There won't be anything you can just wire up and make this work.  You will need to build or buy circuitry.  I don't really get the sense that you're so much into electronics as you are just looking to make your guitar setup work, so I highly recommend you simply just buy the Morley pedal.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 06:11:52 pm by John Coloccia »
 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2015, 07:15:56 pm »
It can't be solved passively.  Guitar electronics are essentially big RLC circuits. You can't just connect them up without unwanted interaction.  The right way to do it is to buffer each guitar, and then mix them.

I Think i know what you mean "
It can't be solved passively" 
Are u mean  something like a active "gizmo/gadget" to built on a little solder board maby?

big RLC Circuits.  There you got me lost ?? :o

Guitar electronics consist of a big inductor (the pickups), resistors (tone and volume pots), and at least one cap (the tone cap).  RLC stands for Resitance Inductance Capacitance.  It's output impedance is high as well.  What all of this means is that it's a very fragile signal.  Whatever you connect it to has the potential to mess up the signal, either through attenuating it in various ways, or even changing the resonant frequency of the pickups.

In other words, for the thing to work right, you need to plug it into relatively high impedance input, and you want to be careful that you don't mess things up with random capacitors and things like that.

Guitar buffering most often takes the form of a cap feeding either a transistor (often just a BJT) or an opamp.  In the schematic you see, the input cap and first resistor both filter the signal (it's pretty wide open in this case), set the input impedance, and biases the opamp.  That's pretty much boilerplate for buffering a guitar signal.

Just reading through your responses, I think if you want to build something like this, you need to start with basic electronics.  There won't be anything you can just wire up and make this work.  You will need to build or buy circuitry.  I don't really get the sense that you're so much into electronics as you are just looking to make your guitar setup work, so I highly recommend you simply just buy the Morley pedal.

You are so right, im not capable to make this on my own on a circuit ;D
"Whatever you connect it to has the potential to mess up the signal"
Yes that's my general idea to be able and mess upp the signal a little bit. too kind of modulate guitar sound with a second sound.

I look upp the Morley pedal :-+
 

Offline Sammy

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Re: Have i got it right in this simple SCHEMATIC. Help
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2015, 05:13:29 pm »
I have now roughly build the wiring scematics whith som Cables and different diods.
And it "kind of works"

Yes the output from the guitar i lower.
But i can modulate the guitar sound  whith Another sound "sampler (1)"

Absolutly far from being god.
and sound quality is not that god.

Sammy.
 


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