Analog multimeters, are they still useful?

[jonslab]

Is there anyone who still uses analog multimeters?

[Azhar]

Analogue multimeters have their own charm!

[Dubbie]

I'm sure there are people who do, but in my opinion, you'd have to be desperate or willfully obstinate to bother with one these days.

[jonslab]

I have a cheap digital multimeter by I always wanted one of these old brick-like analog meters.
I know maybe their are not as accurate as a digital ones, but I think analog they look nice on the workbench.

[Technomaniac]

When digital multimeters first appeared here in Oz in the sixties, I bought one immediately. It was Advance, I think DMM1 or DMM2.  I took it to work for my coworker technicians to look at, and after using it for a few months, the conclusion reached was that they were very good for measuring stable rail voltages and setting the output voltages of power supplies.  I have had many others over the years since, and had many fail for no good reason. They are pretty useless measuring a varying signal, but are OK for other things.   I build a bit of electronic gear, and often use several AVOmeters  circa Model 8.  I bought my first one of these around the same time as the first DMM  as much of the two way radio gear we were servicing specified that model for test point measurements for RF  alignments.  But in recent years as they are now quite expensive to buy new, and they were still available a couple of years ago, people wouldn't be using them so much.  But as they have fallen out of favour, I have been gathering them up for next to nothing, and it is common for me to have three or four of them connected to a circuit I am working on, while a DMM wont respond as quickly and can be harder to read when the voltage is varying a bit.  DMMs are now inexpensive and  they certainly take less bench space.  I bought three about two years ago, I have one that still works.  None of my analogue AVOs  have ever failed except for terminals needing polishing.  I have a couple of dead AVO  DMMs from garage sales or swap meets but haven't had the time to get them working.  And DMMs don't like the heat, or sunlight when they have LCD displays.

[vk6zgo]

I no longer have an analog VOM.

DMMs definitely have a problem with reading fairly rapidly varying voltages such as the results of an adjustment, as the bargraphs are a bit slow to react.
For such voltages, I usually use an analog Oscilloscope, as it is easy to watch the variation when dc coupled.
If I really want to look at a meter scale, I have a HP 410C.

[CatalinaWOW]

I started out on analog meters and still have a couple, but never use them.   I have had the opposite experience of a prior poster, with multiple analog meter failures and only a couple digital meter failures.

A huge advantage of digital is the high input impedance, which means you seldom have to worry about loading.  If you are prone to dropping your meter or knocking it off the bench you will find that the sensitive meter movement really doesn't like that.  And it takes much more effort to get accuracy from the analog meter.  From zeroing the pointer, through using the not always included mirror scale to assure that your sight line is perpendicular to the needle and on through making sure there is no static charge on the meter window there are many details required.

Fast changing signals can be easier to understand on analog, but many digital units have a bar graph indicator that works as well. 

The bottom line is as I opened this post.  I've sold or thrown away most of my analog meters, and haven't used the ones I still have for years.

[vk6zgo]

I started out on analog meters and still have a couple, but never use them.   I have had the opposite experience of a prior poster, with multiple analog meter failures and only a couple digital meter failures.

A huge advantage of digital is the high input impedance, which means you seldom have to worry about loading.

Hardly unique to DMMs ----'scopes, VTVMs, FET VOMs all offer this.

  If you are prone to dropping your meter or knocking it off the bench you will find that the sensitive meter movement really doesn't like that.  And it takes much more effort to get accuracy from the analog meter.  From zeroing the pointer, through using the not always included mirror scale to assure that your sight line is perpendicular to the needle and on through making sure there is no static charge on the meter window there are many details required.

Accuracy to a few %, (or often, worse) is usually all that is required.

Fast changing signals can be easier to understand on analog, but many digital units have a bar graph indicator that works as well. 

Sorry, but I haven't seen one that does, which is strange, because rendered "analog" displays on ham radios seem to have no problem with fast changing signals.

The bottom line is as I opened this post.  I've sold or thrown away most of my analog meters, and haven't used the ones I still have for years.

[coppercone2]

the only problem is if you have alot of equipment you need to make a rounded work bench to read everything decently, I have a problem with the mirrored anti paralax strip requiring me to get up for one of my meters because it only fits in the corner of a work bench.

If you have a work bench thats not crowded like pink floyds wall, and can set them up at the proper angles, there is often no reason to need more resolution for lots of design work

also infinitely less annoying if you forget to turn it off or need to work on something else while the equipment is still powered. A little creepy if some dial decides to move (oscillation) on its own while its in the corner of your eye.

They strike an analogy to me with carpenters tools.. all you need is a ruler with a scale in most cases and there are only small benefits (or no benefits) and risk involved with going more expensive then say a square, particularly if you use sand paper afterwards. I tried using a machinists caliper when working with wood and now I just go for the square, it makes sense.

[BravoV]

... <wearing TEA badge:ON> ...

What ? Useful ? I still love my Simpsons ...







... duck n run ...

[jdutky]

Here's an informative comparison of various DMMs with bar graphs and their response to AC signals

[bsfeechannel]

Analog meters are good when you need to measure voltage and current and you don't want to worry about battery life. They are also useful for testing LEDs since their output voltage is enough to light them up. I have a Sanwa YX-360-TRn cheap Chinese knock-off that indicates the output voltage across and the current flowing through the DUT when you are measuring resistance or continuity.

[Electro Fan]

Analog multimeters have charm, especially vintage Simpsons and Tripletts, and sometimes newer ones too.  I've tried to like them and have several.  The reality is they are a little are hard to read at a glance - first you have to figure out what scale you are on, and sometimes it's similar with setting the selector knob too.  Once you have the selector knob set and you have figured out what scale you should be reading you will find that if the reading isn't in the center of one-third or so of the scale that the reading isn't as accurate as if you were in the center third; as the reading moves toward the edges the accuracy decreases.  To fight this you might also spend some time adjusting the meter with a screw driver.  Lookout for any signs of OCD as you adjust and re-adjust, or just sign-up for TEA therapy sessions if you continually find yourself taking much longer to get a reading than with a DMM.  Once in a blue moon (or probably less often) you might come up with a good reason to use an analog meter, or maybe never.  Long story short, there is a reason DMMs are everywhere and analog multimeters are mostly on eBay or in drawers or in storage boxes.  Trust me, I really, really wanted to like them and I still have a sense of nostalgia for them but then frankly I like everything that has a VU-meter or almost any meter with a needle. I like toggle switches and other old stuff too but at some point utility trumps vintage unless you just want to collect to collect.  Net, net:  even if analog multimeters are each $15 (or more) pretty soon you could have put $100 toward a DMM or something else.  Maybe you can buy just one and call it day but watch out for the potato chip deal where you can't eat just one, especially thinking the next one might be a little better.  I'd say unless you find something that your DMM cannot do that you are very sure an analog multimeter will do (there are some legitimate use cases), or unless you have all the DMMs you want and everything else you want for your bench, forget the analog multimeter.

[Electro Fan]

Ok, after posting my comments above I noticed this and couldn't resist watching .....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/vu-meter-driver-circuit-modification/

I really do like analog meters   , maybe I just haven't found the right application

[rdl]

Analog is definitely good for reading values that change rapidly. My most used power supply has analog meters. I may eventually swap in a digital meter for voltage, but I actually prefer the analog meter for amps.

[vk6zgo]

Analog multimeters have charm, especially vintage Simpsons and Tripletts, and sometimes newer ones too.  I've tried to like them and have several.  The reality is they are a little are hard to read at a glance - first you have to figure out what scale you are on, and sometimes it's similar with setting the selector knob too.  Once you have the selector knob set and you have figured out what scale you should be reading you will find that if the reading isn't in the center of one-third or so of the scale that the reading isn't as accurate as if you were in the center third; as the reading moves toward the edges the accuracy decreases.  To fight this you might also spend some time adjusting the meter with a screw driver.  Lookout for any signs of OCD as you adjust and re-adjust, or just sign-up for TEA therapy sessions if you continually find yourself taking much longer to get a reading than with a DMM.  Once in a blue moon (or probably less often) you might come up with a good reason to use an analog meter, or maybe never.  Long story short, there is a reason DMMs are everywhere and analog multimeters are mostly on eBay or in drawers or in storage boxes.  Trust me, I really, really wanted to like them and I still have a sense of nostalgia for them but then frankly I like everything that has a VU-meter or almost any meter with a needle. I like toggle switches and other old stuff too but at some point utility trumps vintage unless you just want to collect to collect.  Net, net:  even if analog multimeters are each $15 (or more) pretty soon you could have put $100 toward a DMM or something else.  Maybe you can buy just one and call it day but watch out for the potato chip deal where you can't eat just one, especially thinking the next one might be a little better.  I'd say unless you find something that your DMM cannot do that you are very sure an analog multimeter will do (there are some legitimate use cases), or unless you have all the DMMs you want and everything else you want for your bench, forget the analog multimeter.

As per the slogan of one of the local pharmacies went, back in the day---------"We dispense with accuracy."

There is a definite accuracy fetish amongst the denizens of this thread, rather reminiscent of theologians arguing over "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin".

Those of us who were brought up on multimeters where we had to estimate & set the required range beforehand like VOMS & most early DMMs would get our guess pretty much "spot on".

If we expect to see say, 5 v on the 10v FSD range of a VOM, & we see the needle slammed up against the RH stop, or right down near the LH side of the scale, we know we have problems, so will "zoom in " to a better scale by flicking up or down a range.
We do it automatically, just as an experienced  manual transmission car driver keeps the vehicle in the correct gear.

[andy3055]

I still use these along with an Aneng 8009.

[Keith956]

Analog meters compared to digital ones are like slide rules compared to calculators. Who uses a slide rule these days? (cue someone to put their hand up  )

About the only area where analog ones are more applicable is where you need a zero null - like in a bridge - where the analog one is easier to read and doesn't need high accuracy. For varying voltages, a scope is the right tool.

[rstofer]

Yes, I still have slide rules left over from my college years.  The HP35 calculator was released during my senior year and I couldn't afford one anyway.

As to V-O-M, yes, I have a couple of Simpson 260s.

Suppose you have a huge diesel generator and it doesn't start,  You measure the battery open circuit voltage and everything seems fine.  But, if you put the V-O-M across the battery and crank it, you can see the output voltage crash.   It is easier to see this on a V-O-M than most DMMs.  Even those DMMs that have a bar graph often have very slow response time.

Yes, of course a DMM will work but I prefer to use a V-O-M for this type of testing.

Sure, I have a bunch of handheld DMMs and a couple of bench style meters but there will always be room for my 260s.  I might even have my Heathkit DMM around here somewhere.  I have had it for more than 60 years and  I'm not inclined to get rid of it.

My Heathkit Vacuum Tube Volt Meter probably is obsolete but it was pretty nice when I built it way back when.

ETA:

I bought another inexpensive V-O-M a while back.  It's pretty nice and it has a very bright screen light:

https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP7244L-7-Function-Multimeter-Protective/dp/B00MI6T0IW

[Kleinstein]

I still use one occasionally as a 2nd meter or if closer at hand.
The analog meter is nice that one does not have to worry much about the batteries (more like checking for leakage, not that they would run empty).
Most of the tasks don't need high accuracy and the analog meter is good enough. Still if I have both the digital and analog meter at hand I usually prefer the digital one.

[DimitriP]

Analog meters.. don't need no stinking batteries to measure voltage or current. And you can read them in bright sunlight.
Still useful? Yes.
Not enough room on your bench? That's not an analog meter problem.
Plus watching the needle bounce is entertainment itself.

[wizard69]

...

Suppose you have a huge diesel generator and it doesn't start,  You measure the battery open circuit voltage and everything seems fine.  But, if you put the V-O-M across the battery and crank it, you can see the output voltage crash.   It is easier to see this on a V-O-M than most DMMs.  Even those DMMs that have a bar graph often have very slow response time.

Y...

the nice thing here is that you can get a good estimate on that dip, no need for a scope.    I know that many DMM these days have negative and positive peak capabilities but frankly they are a pain to use.   As for bar graphs on DMM's none of them are even remotely similar in behavior to a moving needle on an analog meter.

This discussion is related to the discussion of resolution on the new EEVBlog multimeter.    Often all that resolution causes more harm than good.   Some people seem to have an obsession with high resolution and precision. but there has to be a point to support such.    Sometimes a tech is better off having a selection of tools to enable using the right tool for the job.

It is sort of like the mechanical world where there are dozens of hammer sizes and types available.   You can use a 5 pound engineers hammer to dire a tack but you might be a lot more productive with a tack hammer.   More importantly using the right tool avoid self harm.   Self harm with a digital multimeter is often getting hung up on details that don't matter.

[Electro Fan]

More importantly using the right tool avoid self harm.   Self harm with a digital multimeter is often getting hung up on details that don't matter.

This is one of the questions on the TEA assessment:  “Do you find yourself doing self harm with a digital multimeter?”

[thermistor-guy]

Are analog multimeters still useful?

Not in my home lab, but there might be some specialized uses.

One that comes to mind is checking inrush current on a power circuit, where the "kick" of the meter movement gives you information about the load.

Telephone exchanges used this to good effect, back in the day. By briefly reversing the -48 V exchange battery polarity to a telephone line, and watching an analog meter respond to the line current transient, you could tell whether a line had a phone connected or not, and roughly how many phones were connected. In effect you were testing the line + phone capacitance.

You could also tell whether a line was short (less than a few km) or long (tens of km) - some long lines were in use for special purposes. So if you in the exchange and testing a line, but didn't see the expected meter kick, chances were you were testing the wrong line.

[tggzzz]

Is there anyone who still uses analog multimeters?

They are sufficient for many purposes.

If you just want to quickly and crudely check several voltages, they have the advantage that you observe how fast the needle starts to move, and you can do that out of the corner of your eye without taking your eyes off the probes.

Where you need to rapidly scan many displays to find which are abnormal, they are preferred. That's why such displays are still found in many aircraft.

[Calambres]

I use mine when aligning radio receivers. DMMs are useless for this.

[Doctorandus_P]

I find my analog multimeter handy for doing adjustments with potentiometers.
The distance from where the needle is, and where it should be has a direct relation with how far the pot needs to be turned. This could also be done with a DMM with Bar Graph, but I do not have that, and a analog meter has higher resolution then the bar graph. (Unless you go back to interpreting numbers).

I also use my analog multimeter for long time monitoring of voltages and currents. It does not need batteries, never turns itself off and it never beeps at you.

My analog meter was not very expensive, just 1 or 2 steps above the cheapest (those have almost no ranges). I also modified it a bit, so I can directly put "Dupont Wires" into it, which is convenient for breadboard work.

[Electro Fan]

Are analog multimeters still useful?

Not in my home lab, but there might be some specialized uses.

One that comes to mind is checking inrush current on a power circuit, where the "kick" of the meter movement gives you information about the load.

Telephone exchanges used this to good effect, back in the day. By briefly reversing the -48 V exchange battery polarity to a telephone line, and watching an analog meter respond to the line current transient, you could tell whether a line had a phone connected or not, and roughly how many phones were connected. In effect you were testing the line + phone capacitance.

You could also tell whether a line was short (less than a few km) or long (tens of km) - some long lines were in use for special purposes. So if you in the exchange and testing a line, but didn't see the expected meter kick, chances were you were testing the wrong line.

good examples of legit use cases

[Electro Fan]

I use mine when aligning radio receivers. DMMs are useless for this.

good example of legit use case

[Electro Fan]

I find my analog multimeter handy for doing adjustments with potentiometers.
The distance from where the needle is, and where it should be has a direct relation with how far the pot needs to be turned. This could also be done with a DMM with Bar Graph, but I do not have that, and a analog meter has higher resolution then the bar graph. (Unless you go back to interpreting numbers).

I also use my analog multimeter for long time monitoring of voltages and currents. It does not need batteries, never turns itself off and it never beeps at you.

My analog meter was not very expensive, just 1 or 2 steps above the cheapest (those have almost no ranges). I also modified it a bit, so I can directly put "Dupont Wires" into it, which is convenient for breadboard work.

good example of legit use cases

use case trend seems to be that they work well for helping to identify ~slow moving trends - over ranges that can be smaller to larger depending on the scale used

[TimFox]

A proper analog meter is essential when adjusting a bridge for null--although normal VOMs do not have a zero-center movement.  The latency in a DVM prevents finding a good null.  I also use an analog CRO when adjusting AC bridges for null.

[emece67]

.

[rstofer]

Where you need to rapidly scan many displays to find which are abnormal, they are preferred. That's why such displays are still found in many aircraft.

In the electrical substation business, it is not unheard of to fashion an arrow of red electrical tape and attach it to the front of a meter to indicate where the needle should be for normal operation.  Possibly even two arrows to indicate a range.  We don't care about 3 decimal places, we just need to know the voltage is 'about' right and the current is in a 'range' of expected readings.

One of the laughing points of high digit count DMMs is the circuit being probed uses 5% resistors and -20%..+80% capacitors with staggering temperature coefficients.  Who cares about digits?  Is the reading 'about' right is the best you can get.

The first DMM I used (circa '72) was line powered.  I had to find a working outlet to use my DMM.  Or I could just use my Triplett 630 V-O-M.

[akimpowerscr]

In the past I used a Hioki AF105 and an AVO 9 Mark IV but in 1992 I was able to buy a used Fluke 73 .... which I still use although since then I have bought more other Fluke multimeters like the 87 V.

As I was working in a dangerous field (high power electronics), the digital multimeter gave me a security that I did not have with analog multimeters. (with the 10A current input blocked with a piece of insulation!)

I always have a few analog multimeters (Avometer 9 Mark IV, Hansen M100 and Triplett 630-NA) useful for measuring 2Kv voltages that are found in analog osciloscopes or for currents up to 10 A

Many digital multimeters cannot withstand 10A constantly and there is a risk of blowing an expensive and hard to find fuse.

[Calambres]

...And at work I still have another 680R in the drawer...

The ICE 680R is an excellent analog multimeter. Mine has served me well for more than 40 years and it's still alive and kickin'...

Of my 680R multimeters, the first one I own was bought by myself on the 80's, it uses an normal 1.5V alkaline cell, the others were salvaged from scrapping at work and are older units using a 3 V cell not easily available, so I built an adapter to use CR123A cells.

Those 3V cells are readily available in ebay. I bought one recently.

[Electro Fan]

...And at work I still have another 680R in the drawer...

The ICE 680R is an excellent analog multimeter. Mine has served me well for more than 40 years and it's still alive and kickin'...

Of my 680R multimeters, the first one I own was bought by myself on the 80's, it uses an normal 1.5V alkaline cell, the others were salvaged from scrapping at work and are older units using a 3 V cell not easily available, so I built an adapter to use CR123A cells.

Those 3V cells are readily available in ebay. I bought one recently.

Swell, just after trying to talk myself and others out of needing any more analog multimeters now I need one of these:
https://www.amazon.it/MULTIMETRO-ANALOGICO-MOD-680R/dp/B00B22CP26
 
1-800-CALL-TEA

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

These still work, do you think your DMM will be alive in 100 yrs?

[Calambres]

Swell, just after trying to talk myself and others out of needing any more analog multimeters now I need one of these:
https://www.amazon.it/MULTIMETRO-ANALOGICO-MOD-680R/dp/B00B22CP26
 
1-800-CALL-TEA

Way too expensive! It had a steep price back in its heyday but now you can find it easily for half that price.
Still a very good instrument for sure!

[rsjsouza]

One of the nice uses for Analog multimeters is to find out transformer winding polarity. Something I mentioned here

I also started my career on my dad's ICE 680R - nice meter, but mine is due for cleanup and tuning. My dad adapted a CR123 battery and it works quite alright.

I personally like their charm and being self-powered.

These still work, do you think your DMM will be alive in 100 yrs?

Well, TBH I have a 41 years old bench meter (Keithley 191) that I don't really see it going anywhere. It will require some maintenance, especially due to aging electrolytics, but apart from that everything else is still in quite good shape. Of course, if a nuclear EMP event takes place, than we go back to analog.

[james_s]

They are neat looking, and have a few niche advantages such as monitoring rapidly changing voltages and the fact that they will work without batteries to measure everything but resistance. I no longer have one though, digital does everything I need it to do. I do however like analog panel meters and prefer those over digital in most cases.

[emece67]

.

[Calambres]

Yes, that one from Amazon a 680-R series VII. My 680-R is an older series 3 model.

[Electro Fan]

this is the kind of thing that helps grow your analog multimeter family

[pwlps]

For me there are two different questions here: analog meters and analog displays. I sometimes replaced the whole electronics in old lab instruments but always keeping the original analog milliampmeters as primary displays even if there are ADCs and everything is connected to a computer.  The thing is when I have to survey half a dozen or more displays during an experiment I don't like digital displays because it takes me much longer to integrate all the readings, it seems my brain remains analog in nature . I think I couldn't fly a plane with an all-digital instrument panel (if such existed, I don't know any).

[tggzzz]

For me there are two different questions here: analog meters and analog displays. I sometimes replaced the whole electronics in old lab instruments but always keeping the original analog milliampmeters as primary displays even if there are ADCs and everything is connected to a computer.  The thing is when I have to survey half a dozen or more displays during an experiment I don't like digital displays because it takes me much longer to integrate all the readings, it seems my brain remains analog in nature . I think I couldn't fly a plane with an all-digital instrument panel (if such existed, I don't know any).

Basically... Yes.

But I was taught to fly a glider with zero instruments, on the principle that they fail and you still have to land. And yes, I had had failures.

Obviously the altimeter is pretty useless except if you are landing where you launched.

The vario isn't essential, but the battery can fail and the orifices can be blocked.

The ASI is important since eyou are often flying near stall or Vne speeds. Traditionally they are put out of action by a bumble bee or rain, but in my case it was a rubber flap.

Never had an artificial horizon since I never did cloud flying; I used the real one.

As for the radio... What radio?

[pwlps]

The ASI is important since eyou are often flying near stall or Vne speeds. Traditionally they are put out of action by a bumble bee or rain, but in my case it was a rubber flap.

This is why I don't understand why in most schools only the power-assisted approach is taught, here the ASI indication is important. For power-off approach you don't really need it.
But maybe I'm going slightly off-topic here.

[tggzzz]

The ASI is important since eyou are often flying near stall or Vne speeds. Traditionally they are put out of action by a bumble bee or rain, but in my case it was a rubber flap.

This is why I don't understand why in most schools only the power-assisted approach is taught, here the ASI indication is important. For power-off approach you don't really need it.

Why on earth don't you need it?

ASI is just as important in a engine-off approach. Too slow => stall/spin, whether powered by hydrocarbons or gravity.

[pwlps]

Why on earth don't you need it?

ASI is just as important in a engine-off approach. Too slow => stall/spin, whether powered by hydrocarbons or gravity.

This is really off topic but I will answer the question.   I mean I can safely land with engine off without even looking at ASI because I only slow down right before touching the runway,  before that I fly well above Vs so I can easily feel the speed on the yoke response.

[tggzzz]

The ASI is important since eyou are often flying near stall or Vne speeds. Traditionally they are put out of action by a bumble bee or rain, but in my case it was a rubber flap.

This is why I don't understand why in most schools only the power-assisted approach is taught, here the ASI indication is important. For power-off approach you don't really need it.

Why on earth don't you need it?

ASI is just as important in a engine-off approach. Too slow => stall/spin, whether powered by hydrocarbons or gravity.

This is really off topic but I will answer the question.   I mean I can safely land with engine off without even looking at ASI because I only slow down right before touching the runway,  before that I fly well above Vs so I can easily feel the speed on the yoke response.

Precisely. There is no difference between a powered and unpowered landing w.r.t. needing an ASI.

However in a glider it is normal to fly close to stall speed, except during the approach since that's when you are more likely to suffer bad consequences from windshear or gusts.