Analog versus digital oscilloscopes 2

[rstofer]

Our local GameStop still has just empty cases on the shelves.  The DVDs are behind the counter.  I expect this is common practice in the gaming industry.

[TimFox]

Out of curiosity:  do the gaming DVDs have a finite time period for operation after purchase?

[David Hess]

Out of curiosity:  do the gaming DVDs have a finite time period for operation after purchase?

Some do if they rely on online game servers, authentication servers, or patch servers.

[rdl]

There was a chain of department stores called Service Merchandise that did things that way. There was only one of anything on display, you took a tag if you wanted to buy, paid at the cash register, then went to wait for your item to come down the conveyor. They're apparently not around anymore. I used to buy a lot of stuff there.

[David Hess]

Best Products also worked that way with stores that were mostly showrooms.

[tautech]

When CDs were new and easy to shoplift, it was common to bring the “jewel case” to the checkout where they inserted the disc from stock behind the counter, whereafter it was your property.  Same thing.

Shit I'm old enough to remember music shops doing that with LP's ! 

[Gyro]

Shit I'm old enough to remember music shops doing that with LP's ! 

I'm old enough to have been pulling the LPs out of the file and populating the sleeves when I sold them in my Saturday job!

[free_electron]

Isn't this a bit of a moot discussion ? Where can you still buy NEW analog scopes ? None of the traditional equipment makers still has em. And if you can still find one it'll be a single beam chopped chinese 20MHz 'blechtrommel' (look it up)

[TimFox]

I don’t know of any decent analog CROs still in production, but many of us buy used equipment for home use.  Lots of pros and cons have been discussed on this site.

[tautech]

Isn't this a bit of a moot discussion ? Where can you still buy NEW analog scopes ? None of the traditional equipment makers still has em. And if you can still find one it'll be a single beam chopped chinese 20MHz 'blechtrommel' (look it up)

http://www.pintek.com.tw/product_classify/landersound-tail/index.php?Product_Site_Classify_SN=16856&Company_SN=6002

[bdunham7]

Isn't this a bit of a moot discussion ? Where can you still buy NEW analog scopes ? None of the traditional equipment makers still has em. And if you can still find one it'll be a single beam chopped chinese 20MHz 'blechtrommel' (look it up)

BK has discontinued their 100 and 60MHz versions, but they do have one refurbished 2160C left--60MHz, component tester, 1 year warranty.  Last one!

https://www.bkprecision.com/products/oscilloscopes/2160C-60-mhz-analog-oscilloscope-with-probes.html

b/t/w, when was the last dual beam model manufactured???

[james_s]

As far as I know, there is no CRT production or rebuilding taking place anywhere in the world at this point, if they are still being built anywhere I'd like to know. It's possible the companies still selling new analog scopes are just selling old stock, I can't imagine they move many units at this point. I doubt it's going to be any cheaper to build an analog scope than a DSO these days.

[AaronLee]

Isn't this a bit of a moot discussion ? Where can you still buy NEW analog scopes ? None of the traditional equipment makers still has em. And if you can still find one it'll be a single beam chopped chinese 20MHz 'blechtrommel' (look it up)

This place lists new Hameg HM-1005 scopes, but a bit pricey. 1,210,000 KRW comes to 1058.24 USD.

https://www.kdk.kr/goods/goods_view.php?goodsNo=1000002865

[tautech]

As far as I know, there is no CRT production or rebuilding taking place anywhere in the world at this point, if they are still being built anywhere I'd like to know. It's possible the companies still selling new analog scopes are just selling old stock, I can't imagine they move many units at this point. I doubt it's going to be any cheaper to build an analog scope than a DSO these days.

Maybe you didn't click on the link I posted above ? 

[james_s]

Maybe you didn't click on the link I posted above ? 

That link doesn't answer my question. Is anyone building CRTs still or are they just selling old stock? I don't see any information about price or availability, for all I know the web page could have been sitting there since 2005.

[bdunham7]

https://www.thomaselectronics.com/faq/

[james_s]

Fascinating, I had not heard of them. Looks like they mostly do avionics stuff, so $$$. I remember seeing an article somewhere a couple years ago that mentioned keeping CRT based avionics going was an increasingly difficult problem, and with an aircraft you can't just slap in a LCD conversion and call it good.

[bdunham7]

Looks like they mostly do avionics stuff, so $$$.

They even refurbish CRTs, so they appear to have a full glass lab.  I'll bet that's not cheap either.

If you look them up on Google Maps, you see they have two buildings and a fair number of employee cars in the parking lots, so not a micro-company.  Older buildings, but they can afford to maintain the parking lot, so not likely in imminent danger of bankruptcy.

208 Davis Pkwy, Clyde, NY 14433

[richmit]

When I bought my first scope, I went digital.  I have to say that my digital scopes have been faithful companions helping me through many projects over the past 20 years.  A couple years ago I started playing around with analog computing and chaotic differential equations.  XY mode suddenly became much more important to me.

XY mode has never been great on digital, but it really feels like modern scope manufacturers are putting even less love into XY-mode than in the past.  For example the XY mode on my Siglent SDS2504X+, and excellent device BTW, feels like an afterthought -- it's worse than on my 20 year old TDS3052B!

So I bought my very first analog scope about a year ago -- a Tektronix 2205 for about $50 US from EBay.  This 20MHz scope is about as low end as it gets, but I have to say it blows away every digital scope I have ever used for XY mode.  Last month my wife got me a NIB Tektronix 2235 for my birthday.

So, yea...  After 20 years of using digital scopes exclusively, I have acquired two analog scopes in less than a year.

Last week I needed to sweep a filter, and without really thinking about it I reached over and turned on the analog 2235...

Don't get me wrong.  I love my digital scopes -- especially the SDS2504X+.  Still, I find myself occasionally cruising analog oscilloscope section of EBay.  Something about the CRT and the way they work just makes them very satisfying to use...

[Trader]

Last week I needed to sweep a filter, and without really thinking about it I reached over and turned on the analog 2235...

Many people say the analog scope have more natural waveforms and adjustments, and I think the same.

If you don't need to capture a single event, the analog scope is a great and useful instrument.

[vk6zgo]

Isn't this a bit of a moot discussion ? Where can you still buy NEW analog scopes ? None of the traditional equipment makers still has em. And if you can still find one it'll be a single beam chopped chinese 20MHz 'blechtrommel' (look it up)

"Tin Drum"? ----Like the "Minion" here? (although it's only 10MHz)

[vk6zgo]

As far as I know, there is no CRT production or rebuilding taking place anywhere in the world at this point, if they are still being built anywhere I'd like to know. It's possible the companies still selling new analog scopes are just selling old stock, I can't imagine they move many units at this point. I doubt it's going to be any cheaper to build an analog scope than a DSO these days.

Dunno, but the little 10MHz analog job I have (see my previous posting) would be "dirt cheap" to build.
They were still advertised on line a few years ago!

Really "El Cheapo" DSOs have all the problems that plagued very early ones from the majors, in particular, horrific aliasing when looking at complex signals at long time/div settings.
Analog video at field rate was the "torture test" for the old ones.

A crappy little "10MHz" analog will still faithfully display a signal with frequency components to its specified bandwidth on very long time/div settings.

I bought the horrible little thing to help me fix my BWD 'scope ages ago, but it ended up doing most of the jobs I needed it for nearly as well, (even at work), until I got the Tek 7613.

Now, the Tek has croaked, & I have to go back to relying on the "Minion" to get me out of trouble.

As I am now retired, I can put things "on the back burner", which is unfortunately where the 7613 is.

The "Minion" is definitely "cheap & nasty"----things like knobs falling off, & BNC connectors coming unscrewed, & on one occasion, the HT supply failing.

All these things are easily fixable---- the failed supply wasn't fussy about power transistors.
I found one in the "junk box", fitted it,and:-

 "Aieeee! It lives!"

[rsjsouza]

Now, the Tek has croaked, & I have to go back to relying on the "Minion" to get me out of trouble.

Over the years I reluctantly kept my original Kenwood CS4025 bought new more than twenty years ago - every time I think of getting rid of it, it becomes critical to look at something when my DS4014 is somehow not available.

[tautech]

Maybe you didn't click on the link I posted above ? 

That link doesn't answer my question. Is anyone building CRTs still or are they just selling old stock? I don't see any information about price or availability, for all I know the web page could have been sitting there since 2005.

You doubt my sources ? 
20 MHz $315 to 100 MHz $ 525 ex factory Taiwan.

Yeah, why would you buy a new one ? 

[james_s]

You doubt my sources ? 
20 MHz $315 to 100 MHz $ 525 ex factory Taiwan.

Yeah, why would you buy a new one ? 

Who's doubting anything? I just can't tell from the link whether they're still being manufactured or not, I mean who is buying them? I figured any still for sale would be old stock, they can't possibly move very many at this point, especially at those prices.