Author Topic: Antenna in atomic clock  (Read 5986 times)

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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Antenna in atomic clock
« on: May 02, 2019, 07:47:22 pm »
I am wondering whether I bought a true atomic clock.

I took apart my clock and it does not have anything like this antenna.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsae0sulcd1r9zr/Antenna.png?dl=0

Is it supposed to have an antenna?

I assume it needs one to get updated on the time from the time server.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 07:57:14 pm »
You bought a radio receiver for DCF77 and other time transmitting services. The "atomic clocks" are at the transmitter end.   :-DD

 

Offline CJay

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 08:21:25 pm »
Why don't you post a picture of your radio clock?
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 08:42:57 pm »
You bought a radio receiver for DCF77 and other time transmitting services. The "atomic clocks" are at the transmitter end.   :-DD
Yup. I have one I bought at LIDL but it must be trying to learn German or something because it has not yet changed to summer time.

Not as bad as the ones LIDL sold in the UK which could not be set to UK time, only CET. You set it to UK time and it would automatically set itself to CET. For some odd reason the brits did not like this idea and returned them.

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/lidl-recalls-most-accurate-clock-in-the-world-because-its-stuck-on-german-time-11364031992681
Quote
Lidl recalls ‘most accurate clock in the world’ – because it’s stuck on German time
Disappointed customers have revealed that the supermarket’s £8.99 Auriol clock automatically sets itself to Frankfurt time – and changes back even if reset.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 09:42:18 pm by soldar »
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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 01:12:10 am »
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2019, 01:17:02 am »
You bought a radio receiver for DCF77 and other time transmitting services. The "atomic clocks" are at the transmitter end.   :-DD

I did not buy a radio receiver. I just posted a picture of one.

I took my clock apart and it has no receiver. :-)

The clock has no manufacturer name on either the manual or the clock.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 01:19:08 am by fixit7 »
 

Online edpalmer42

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2019, 02:20:34 am »
Yes, there should be an antenna.  Typically, it's a ferrite rod like the one in the picture that you showed.

I've seen this before.  There might be two models that look identical, but one has the radio receiver and the other doesn't.  They could even have the same LCD - which has specific segments for the atomic clock function, but the receiver just isn't in one version.  You might be able to see where the receiver connects to the main board.

Ed


 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 02:54:40 am »
The ferrite rod antenna is usually stuffed in the enclosure, not on the PCB. Take it apart and look.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 03:13:06 am »
The ferrite rod antenna is usually stuffed in the enclosure, not on the PCB. Take it apart and look.

I looked.

No wires leaving the pcb other than to a speaker which is used for the alarm and it plays a melody whenever battery is changed.

The clock time does correspond to what my phone says, so it is pretty accurate.

Maybe not accurate to a few seconds, but I am happy with it.

I had a leftover UPS 12 volt battery (8 Ah) that I thought would power the clock for a long time instead of using the normal 2 AA batteries.

I used a buck step down converter.

"https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Converter-Module-LM2596-Voltage-Regulator-Led-Voltmeter-M3/301724177038?epid=10003955778&hash=item464029928e:g:bAwAAOSwdsFUNdsC"

The clock uses about 10 mA, but the converter uses about .2 Volt per day.
 

Offline radiolistener

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 04:37:55 am »
Unfortunately most of us don't trained for using telepathy and don't have magician crystal ball with magic vision to see what you're talking about. If you post photo of electronics inside your clock it will helps to say how it works.

At a glance, this is just a usual crystal quartz electronic clock.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 04:39:36 am by radiolistener »
 
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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2019, 05:48:31 am »
What leads you to think you have an "atomic clock" at all?
What does the back look like?  There is nothing on the front that suggests an "atomic clock".
Typically there is something in the LCD display of a "lock" indicator when it is receiving WWVL (60KHz)
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 06:37:29 am »
What leads you to think you have an "atomic clock" at all?
Well, it is made with atoms. It is not only atomic but molecular also.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 07:09:09 am »
Unfortunately most of us don't trained for using telepathy and don't have magician crystal ball with magic vision to see what you're talking about. If you post photo of electronics inside your clock it will helps to say how it works.

At a glance, this is just a usual crystal quartz electronic clock.

What leads you to think you have an "atomic clock" at all?
What does the back look like?  There is nothing on the front that suggests an "atomic clock".
Typically there is something in the LCD display of a "lock" indicator when it is receiving WWVL (60KHz)

Telepathy wise, I "sense" the OP was sort of scammed by seller maybe ?


Anyway, the mandatory smileys for the clock internal photo ...

 
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 07:20:26 am »
I think a good question would be: How did you set the time?
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Offline soldar

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 07:34:44 am »
I think there is a good chance it is just a plain, regular quartz crystal clock and the question would be why the OP believes it is any kind of " atomic" clock.

Decades ago, when quartz clocks were new, I did hear people use the term " atomic" to distinguish them but I believe that is not used any more.
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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2019, 08:03:34 am »
The antenna's could be very tiny, like the ones found in Casio Waveceptor watches.
 

Offline mikerj

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2019, 08:28:13 am »
The clock uses about 10 mA, but the converter uses about .2 Volt per day.

10mA is a ridiculous amount of current for a basic quartz controlled LCD clock, it should be down in the low microamps.
 

Offline imisaac

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2019, 08:48:12 am »
Quote
I am wondering whether I bought a true atomic clock.

I took apart my clock and it does not have anything like this antenna.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsae0sulcd1r9zr/Antenna.png?dl=0

Is it supposed to have an antenna?

I assume it needs one to get updated on the time from the time server.

Just to clarify.

A true rubidium or caesium based atomic clocks would also have an antenna attached in order to sync with the UTC time broadcasted by the satellites.
A "clock" without antenna would represent some local oscillator for the convenience of timekeeping. It will have accuracy problem over time due to the relative drifts between your oscillator and the standards.

For easy identification in the future, you could look for some glass tubes and ovens on your board if the clock is based on the atomic standards.

For a serious identification, you should measure its long term frequency stability and time stability somehow and make sure that they are below 10-11.


 
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2019, 09:03:10 am »
Quote
I am wondering whether I bought a true atomic clock.

I took apart my clock and it does not have anything like this antenna.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsae0sulcd1r9zr/Antenna.png?dl=0

Is it supposed to have an antenna?

I assume it needs one to get updated on the time from the time server.

Just to clarify.

A true rubidium or caesium based atomic clocks would also have an antenna attached in order to sync with the UTC time broadcasted by the satellites.
A "clock" without antenna would represent some local oscillator for the convenience of timekeeping. It will have accuracy problem over time due to the relative drifts between your oscillator and the standards.

For easy identification in the future, you could look for some glass tubes and ovens on your board if the clock is based on the atomic standards.

For a serious identification, you should measure its long term frequency stability and time stability somehow and make sure that they are below 10-11.

Looking at the OP's photo of the clock and it's size, don't think that a true atomic clock can be powered just by simple common small batteries.

I'm pretty sure its just another common cheap LCD clock, maybe cost 5 or 10 bucks.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 09:04:47 am by BravoV »
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2019, 09:20:42 am »
Atomic clock is a very generic term...  It may have a Rubidium Standard, Caesium Standard or Hydrogen Maser inside but it is difficult to tell without pictures of the insides.

Looking forward to seeing some internal PCB shots.
 


Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2019, 10:55:17 am »
Yep, ordinary dollar store clock.
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Offline CJay

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2019, 11:18:37 am »
Doesn't look like there's much in the way of radio receiver in there, I'd be pretty sure it's not a radio clock but, does it set itself when you apply power or do you have to do it manually?

The MSF clocks I have flash 12:00 at first (and then 12:01, :02 etc.) until they sync for instance
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2019, 12:54:06 pm »
That is not an "atomic clock".  That is an ordinary digital clock.  Your photos show the little 32.769KHz "watch crystal" that is the time-keeping element.



An "atomic clock" requires user-controls to establish what time zone you are in so that it knows what offset to apply from the UTC that is broadcast by WWV or CHU or DCF77 or whatever is your local source.

Here is a photo of the back of my "atomic clock" just for reference....

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:56:32 pm by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Antenna in atomic clock
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2019, 01:37:14 pm »
Doesn't look like there's much in the way of radio receiver in there, I'd be pretty sure it's not a radio clock but, does it set itself when you apply power or do you have to do it manually?

The MSF clocks I have flash 12:00 at first (and then 12:01, :02 etc.) until they sync for instance

I have to manually set time when changing batteries. How could a radio controlled clock maintain the time if it has no power?

 


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