Anyone tried VUTRAX

[EEVblog]

yes but "students" are not interested in seriously doing stuff. Hobbyists always miss out on these scam deals, oh give it to the students then we can get them to learn it as the mother tongue and sell it to them for big bucks when they come out of uni because they will know no else. Well actually there are tons of hobbyists out here that have risen from nothing are self taught and won't even bother with these expensive products.

You won't get any argument from me!

Dave.

[DJPhil]

Kicad takes some getting used to, but it's wicked fast when you've adjusted. Try hitting ? in eeschema to see the shortcuts, many of them may work in the pcb layout as well. Sometimes I wish I could rewire LTSpice to use the same system as I always get confused when I switch. If something seems tedious, there's probably a faster way that's not too complicated.

I've been assembling Kicad models slowly as I go. I really need to do an overhaul on my default libraries and swap what I never use and what I always use. I doubt I'll work with anything else at a hobby level. That said, making and using the libraries, footprints, and 3D models can be a bit overwhelming and distracting. It looks like a lot of work to get everything set up to default and cross referenced, but I like the program enough that I'm looking forward to settling in.

Some links for Kicad libraries can be found at the My 2µF Blog, including the official Kicad heap as well as some very well done models with 3D libraries at other sites. There's a lot of international interest, so keep google translate handy.

Hope that helps.

[Simon]

yes but "students" are not interested in seriously doing stuff. Hobbyists always miss out on these scam deals, oh give it to the students then we can get them to learn it as the mother tongue and sell it to them for big bucks when they come out of uni because they will know no else. Well actually there are tons of hobbyists out here that have risen from nothing are self taught and won't even bother with these expensive products.

You won't get any argument from me!

Dave.

I didn't think I would from a down to earth person like yourself 

i used the DOS version of OrCAD at school and have used the more modern windows version, at the time with interest in simulations so it was a bit over the top for me, so I'm not exactly new to using this sort of software. I can see KiCAD will become a very good solution and I'm sure I'll settle into it. My belief is that if you have past experience of such programs "getting into" a new program should be intuitive

[EEVblog]

yes but "students" are not interested in seriously doing stuff. Hobbyists always miss out on these scam deals, oh give it to the students then we can get them to learn it as the mother tongue and sell it to them for big bucks when they come out of uni because they will know no else. Well actually there are tons of hobbyists out here that have risen from nothing are self taught and won't even bother with these expensive products.

You won't get any argument from me!

Dave.

I didn't think I would from a down to earth person like yourself 

Last I checked it wasn't again the rules for me to say what products I think Altium should have, and my views are well known anyway.
A low cost (say $500) version limited in some way would blow every other low cost EDA package out of the water overnight.
Add in a free version with similar restrictions to Eagle and you wipe out that market overnight too.

There are now three distinct markets for Schematic/PCB EDA tools - Free, affordable (for hobbyist/maker/one-man-band), and full blown higher end. Altium only cater for one of those markets and I think that's sad, because it's the best tool out there.

But I don't make the rules...

Dave.

[slburris]

There are now three distinct markets for Schematic/PCB EDA tools - Free, affordable (for hobbyist/maker/one-man-band), and full blown higher end. A!tium only cater for one of those markets and I think that's sad, because it's the best tool out there.

I'm not a student so I'm solidly in the hobbyist group.  If Altium was available for a few hundred dollars
in a non-commercial license, and came with *no* support except for the documentation, I'd be ordering it today! 
They make money and don't incur support costs, and I get a decent EDA packages, win - win!
I did buy the Eagle non-profit license for my hobbyist work for both version 4 and version 5.

I suspect I'm not alone in being willing to spend hundreds on a good package, but I can't spend $20K on them.
Individually each sale may not be a lot of money, but collectively it's a good chunk of change.

Companies like Microchip have practically made a business model catering to that middle market.  Heck,
I can *almost* buy PIC chips in the checkout line at the grocery store these days!  I suspect they were
going for mind share by making their stuff easily available and it worked.

Even the FPGA guys finally saw the light a few years ago and made some version of their design tools
available for free, but without any real support.  The result?  Look at all the people now doing
retrocomputing and retroarcade designs with their chips.  In my own designs, FPGAs have replaced
virtually all glue logic (except for the messy analog world!) and sometimes even the embedded
processors.

Anyway, Dave if you ever get a chance to put a bug in someone's ear about the markets Altium is missing out
on, I won't be sad if you mention it :-)

Scott

[Zero999]

I've used Kicad it's certainly better than Eagle on the UI side but it's severely lacking on the library front, I couldn't even find a footprint for a radial capacitor with a 5mm pitch, which is unacceptable as it's a very common part.

I was being a nube.

The 5mm capacitor is in the default library and I didn't need 5mm but 2.5mm.

I couldn't find it because it isn't on the footprint list for the polarised capacitor symbol and I didn't think of clicking on the display full footprint list (without filtering).

Some links for Kicad libraries can be found at the My 2µF Blog, including the official Kicad heap as well as some very well done models with 3D libraries at other sites. There's a lot of international interest, so keep google translate handy.

That's for that, some of the 3D models are great and I hope some of them become part of the official distribution.

[Zero999]

Here's my latest Kicad board, I'll post the source files if anyone's really interested.

[DJPhil]

Here's my latest Kicad board, I'll post the source files if anyone's really interested.

Looks good to me. I've developed the habit of making absolutely huge traces (75mil or so) and filling an enormous ground plane. I'm not sure it's always a good idea, but I like to skimp on etchant when I can and the boards I make are all through hole with big parts (so far). It took some work to get used to changing trace widths and pad sizes, but I've got it under control now.

I hope Kicad works out for you. I'm sort of a fan of it, and I like to see it do well.

[Zero999]

I think it has the potential to become an Eagle killer, at least for hobbyists.

I also like the way that the footprints aren't tied to the symbols: the Eagle way of having several identical resistor graphics just because the footprint is different is retarded.

It still has a fair way to come though I'll support it all the way. I'm an open source fan too. Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with proprietary software, it's just if something can be free and open, it's a really good thing.

[Simon]

Well I prefer free, but then I'm not making a living from it and it will be a while before i make any money (house decorating comes first then some solid testing before I release to the wild)