App notes of high voltage SMPS?

[Faringdon]

Hi,
Do you know of any App Notes of high voltage SMPS?....eg with voltage 1kV to 400kV....and power levels 500W to 5000W?
Or even schematics?

[PartialDischarge]

1kV to 400kV? wow. That is quite a range, its like saying you need binoculars to see objects from 1km to 400km

[Gyro]

Up to 400kV at 500 to 5kW?    Are you insane 'Faringdon' or simply trolling?

... and in the Beginner's section too. 

[Simon]

one does not write app notes about such things, one knows how to do them if one is lucky and charges an awful lot for ones service. I suspect you would learn this sort of thing working at a company that does them, and they won't be telling the world their business

[MK14]

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN118fb.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/design-of-a-3-5kv-supply/

[Simon]

30W to 5kW is quite a step, I am assuming he does not require the 100µV noise limit or maybe lets throw that in just to make it a bit more fun.

[MK14]

30W to 5kW is quite a step, I am assuming he does not require the 100µV noise limit or maybe lets throw that in just to make it a bit more fun.

If they are serious about this thread (I'm not 100% sure they are).  Their responses, would help clarify what the heck is going on, and the true motivations behind this thread.

[jonpaul]

Megavolt Tesla coils


Lod.org

Lawrence Livermore and Lawrence Berkeley labs

IEEE industry applications
IEEE power electronics

Del Electronic
Bertrand
Stangenes Industries

textbooks on high voltage engineering

DANGEROUS LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGE

Jon

[Gyro]

Megavolt Tesla coils
...

His next requirement will probably be DC out!

[Faringdon]

one does not write app notes about such things, one knows how to do them if one is lucky and charges an awful lot for ones service. I suspect you would learn this sort of thing working at a company that does them, and they won't be telling the world their business

Thanks, i suspect you are right, and i guess, party because HV engineering has big applications in the military world. I have done a lot of web searching, and am finding nothing, and certainly no schematics of HV SMPS at high power as discussed.
I once worked in a  HV SMPS  place, and was  "closed box" testing a HV 1kW PSU.....one of the engineers accidentally left a schem on the desk, and i started perusing it.....he came running back and snatched it away......telling  me "oy eyes off!". I believe the layout etc is absolutely crucial.......and moving components very slightly, or rotating them  very slightly, can make the whole thing not work......when they  need to modify the PCBs.....they almost always add manual mods, because they are too scared to move components on the PCB in case it then doesnt work any more.....so  you end up with PCBs  which have shedloads of manual mods on them........so for a schematic, you have the original schem, and then aswell as that you have a massive file detailing all the manual mods that  need to  get done to that PCB.......the mod file is only available to staff in "paper".....there is a copy on a server but is always kept private....this way, no-one can ever copy the companies schems and take them elsewhere.

The thing with magnetic fields is that they need a flow of current to produce them...but the electric field can be produced by a "static" high voltage.....and the E field from a high voltage track etc can badly interfere with a sensitive signal track, or microcontroller etc.

[Gyro]

So are you just trolling or do you have some plausible / ill-considered application?


Edit: It seems that you have a habit of wanting to share other people's confidential schematics.

[Bud]

While Tesla coil can produce impressive discharges, what would be practical applications of Tesla coil generators, other than a pure entertainment pony show?

[Bud]

Hi,
Do you know of any App Notes of high voltage SMPS?....eg with voltage 1kV to 400kV....and power levels 500W to 5000W?
Or even schematics?

http://www.saunalahti.fi/dncmrc1/thor_smps.htm

[tggzzz]

30W to 5kW is quite a step, I am assuming he does not require the 100µV noise limit or maybe lets throw that in just to make it a bit more fun.

This is a treez/faringdon post.

Six days ago he started a thread where he was wanting people to say it was OK for him to have children using his electrically operated gas-powered gizmos. It got to the point where uncharitable comments were being made about his motives. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/electronics-controlled-valve-for-cooking-gas-bottle/msg4457065/#msg4457065 and subsequent posts.

Now he is asking about 400kV PSUs. That's the highest voltage on the UK overhead transmission lines, the ones with the meter long ceramic insulators.

I leave everyone to judge whether it is worth their time responding.

[Faringdon]

Thanks
I once tested a 15Kv  DC output SMPS. The output terminal was about 1 metre away from a metal washer, which happened to be about 5mm away from some earthed metal. I could hear a sharp ticking at about 1 Hz. This ticking turned out to be  the washer getting induced up to high voltage by the 15kV  terminal that was 1 metre away, and then flashing over to the earthed metal, repeatedly.
I think this says it all about high voltage SMPS…..high impedance points such as opamp or comparator inputs can get induced up to high voltage, and cause all sorts of mayhem.
How do manage this sort of thing when making HV SMPS, in a tight space?

[jonpaul]

Rebonjour We invented, designed and manufactured metal halide and xénon lamp ballasts and HV ignitors in 1982..1990,

Re modern day applications for Tesla coils, used in professional, cinéma, searchlight Arc lamp ignitors
Also, Plasma génération particle accelerators interference testing.

We designed 55 kV 1 kW séries injection ignitors for 12 kW arc lamps, used at 1984 LA olympiques and Hollywood cinéma studios still using them today.

TC secondary solid 6mm copper, continuous rating 200A at mains frequency.
The medical fiber xénon illuminators ignitor, 70 kV pulse, 1986..1993

A walk down memory lane....Just the ramblings of an old retired EE

Jon

[coppercone2]

that is something that is made for UHVDC power transmission conversion and generation. Experimental way to make low loss t-lines without emissions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

just at a much lower power level. I would not be suprised if the power company made low power prototypes before building those systems

**************************
There are several different variants of VSC technology: most installations built until 2012 use pulse-width modulation in a circuit that is effectively an ultrahigh-voltage motor drive. Current installations, including HVDC PLUS and HVDC MaxSine, are based on variants of a converter called a Modular Multilevel Converter (MMC).

[jonpaul]

Coppercone:

First HVDC in Sweden 1954 by AESA linking mainland to Gotland island, used huge Hg arc HV inverters.

20 MW, 100 kV 100 km cable undersea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Gotland

Jon

[coppercone2]

i thought that thing to the right was a fork lift lol

[HighVoltage]

Almost all serious high voltage schematics are hiding and behind a NDA.

[jonpaul]

The Hg Arc rectifiers were frm 1920s used in DC power stations, transit, some persisted till 1970s. ||

Invented and develed at GE by Dr Charles Proteus STEINMETZ.

Required water cooling and vacuum pumps

The 'arc back" was a misfire where the rectification failed for a cycle and the anode acted as a cathode.

Jon

[pcprogrammer]

30W to 5kW is quite a step, I am assuming he does not require the 100µV noise limit or maybe lets throw that in just to make it a bit more fun.

This is a treez/faringdon post.

Six days ago he started a thread where he was wanting people to say it was OK for him to have children using his electrically operated gas-powered gizmos. It got to the point where uncharitable comments were being made about his motives. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/electronics-controlled-valve-for-cooking-gas-bottle/msg4457065/#msg4457065 and subsequent posts.

Now he is asking about 400kV PSUs. That's the highest voltage on the UK overhead transmission lines, the ones with the meter long ceramic insulators.

I leave everyone to judge whether it is worth their time responding.

Yep, it seems Faringdon needed a new thread to amuse us

We blew his cover in the other one

This for sure must be trolling. Not something an one man band can do "VERY HIGH VOLTAGE" electronics on his sprayed wet wooden floor to reduce ESD. 

[Faringdon]

Thanks,
We’re trying to work out what are the differences in a 2kW LLC for 15Kv out, and say 200Vout (other than the turns ratio and the obvious need for higher isolation)
It looks like the main difference is that with the 15Kv one, you have no choice other than to do the transformer as an “integrated transformer”, since the coupling  will be very poor with the 15kv one.
This then also means that at 15kv, you cant then use the trick of having an LLC with tight coupled txformer, and then add a pllel LMag with the primary, so that the transformer can be made smaller.
Can you think of any other differences?

Attached is the basic LTspice sim of the 2kw, 15kv  LLC

[Gyro]

...
But the above is so pertinent, because  EVERY SINGLE owner of an electronics company thinks that they are taking a great big risk by showing an electronic engineer their schems (in case the EE then leaves the co and possibly goes and works for a competitor) ......and this is not the case...and these owners are LOOSING MONEY by the fact that they limit the number of electronics engineers that can see their schems......because they would do better to cycle loads of EE's through their schems, and get input from each engineer about the schems and possible improvements and possible failure modes, etc etc.
The thought of an EE leaving a company and then starting up a competitor company, or helping a competitor,  or being able to help a competitor just because they saw a similar co's schems, is for the birds.
Yet company owners fail to see this, and loose their own money due to this.

You paint a very distorted picture. You're a contractor - either that or you've been fired a hell of a lot of times! You are not a staff engineer (with all the company loyalties and career progression that goes hand in hand with that),you're the hired help. Of course you're not going to be staying around. Any manager who doesn't constrain you to the specifics of the work package that you've been contracted  to perform want's his head looking at.

You either need to accept that or become a salaried employee, but don't paint the situation as other than what it is.

[coppercone2]

ehh I kind of agree with him because when there is a mature product they have their own reasons for having a design a certain way, if you were to copy it, it would probobly end up being at least heavily modified. There is always some special deal, exclusive access to some kind of back stock or just randomly acquired manufacturing capabilities that are area/people dependent, which are unappealing to copy with a new business.