Are Breadboards from CPC/Farnell (UK) Any good?

[killingtime]

Hi,

As title, looking to buy some new breadboards for prototyping. I'm aware that there are many threads on the causes of poorly performing breadboards. Looking to avoid Ebay & Amazon for this reason as there's no guarantee of quality. That leaves the big electro distributors in the UK. RS have their own brand which is expensive - but that's no guarantee of anything. CPC/Farnell seem to have their own brand (Multicomp) and (ProSignal).  3M boards don't seem to be sold in the UK. Anyone tried the above bands?

Thanks.

[Terry Bites]

You get what you pay for. I've used cheap breadboards from cpc ans they were shite.
Multicomp and prosignal are not brands, just umbrellas for "untraceable and made on the cheap". Mouser and Digikey in the UK carry 3M.
Cheap breadboards are a false ecconomy.

[wraper]

Under multicomp brand you can get something quite decent or cheap junk. The problem is that you don't know beforehand unless you can figure out from which initial datasheet multicomp datasheet was cloned.

[tatel]

Don't know how it goes in UK after brexit but I just got some Wisher breadboards from TME. There's quite a bunch different ones available. About 8 quid/830 holes, plus shipping. They feel good, as good as my old K&H. No need to use force to insert; clamping is good. Comparation with those Elegoo-branded, cheap breadboards, it's like heaven and hell.

I also got four different ones from Amazon and AliExpress. Let's say they turned out to be MB102 under that and other names. Amazon's one is still on the way. Price is half Wisher's. But insertion isn't so easy and clamping is definitely worse. They are clearly better than Elegoo's, however.

[Peabody]

I've had good luck with Busboard Prototype Systems breadboards.  Not too expensive, but I don't know about a UK source.  Digikey and Mouser carry them in the US.

[tggzzz]

The best components and techniques I've encountered are outlined here, including reasons for the opinions.

Components are listed towards the bottom.

[tooki]

The best components and techniques I've encountered are outlined here, including reasons for the opinions.

Components are listed towards the bottom.

Can you just let it go? Is it really necessary to rally against breadboards every single time?!?

[tggzzz]

The best components and techniques I've encountered are outlined here, including reasons for the opinions.

Components are listed towards the bottom.

Can you just let it go? Is it really necessary to rally against breadboards every single time?!?

Yet another person asks the same old question and is repeating mistakes. Why don't you rail against them?

[Brianf]

I bought some Digilent ones here in the UK and have had no problems.

[MarkS]

Why don't you rail against them?

They're solderless. That makes them extremely useful and makes prototyping fast. The issues are not with the breadboards, and you know it. The issue is with people ignorantly pushing them past their limits. Want to prototype a multi-MHz digital or RF circuit? No problem! Just enjoy your troubleshooting!

[killingtime]

Thanks for your replies. I'll look into the brands mentioned. See if I can find any in the UK.

You get what you pay for. ..... Cheap breadboards are a false ecconomy.

Understood. The problem is price is no longer an indicator of quality in this day and age. So much is re-branded or copied. Brands come and go like the weather.

Yet another person asks the same old question and is repeating mistakes. Why don't you rail against them?

Easy fella. Re-read my post. I would buy a good board if I knew where to buy it from in the UK. The issue isn't I want a cheap board that's good, but where to even find a good board from in the first place. The clones outnumber the genuine thing by a huge factor. This is why the question comes up so much. It would be great if there was an updated thread listing trusted suppliers and brands, then we could just pick from a list. Even searching for brands doesn't work. The merchant has to be part of a trusted supply chain, or you risk getting a copy. Hence why I asked after CPC/Farnell offerings. They're likely to be the genuine thing, even if they are rubbish.

[killingtime]

CPC BB Brands ATM:

MULTICOMP
PRO SIGNAL
PRO'S KIT
TWIN INDUSTRIES

Of the above, only Twin Industries is a dedicated prototyping brand. They have their own website dedicated to proto. The rest are collective umbrella brands. Only one board offering though, and it is much more expensive then the rest. 9.50 for an 830 point board. Acceptable.

Selection at Farnell is a bit better, but can't work out who the OEMs are. The one 3M offering isn't actually a breadboard, but a backing plate for one.

MULTICOMP (29)
PRO SIGNAL (5)
PRO'S KIT (1)
WISHER (4)
BUD INDUSTRIES (5)
DFROBOT (1)
GLOBAL SPECIALTIES (10)
MCM (10)
MIKROELEKTRONIKA (1)
TWIN INDUSTRIES (2)
3M (1)

Given Twin Industries seems to specialize in proto, I'll order one and try it out. You'd hope that they do proto better than the rest if that's their thing.

[tggzzz]

Why don't you rail against them?

They're solderless. That makes them extremely useful and makes prototyping fast. The issues are not with the breadboards, and you know it. The issue is with people ignorantly pushing them past their limits. Want to prototype a multi-MHz digital or RF circuit? No problem! Just enjoy your troubleshooting!

Er, no. As the OP notes, there is a problem with solderless breadboards: many are unreliable. Many people, including the OP, run into that.

Let's consider someone making a circuit that is well within the capabilities of a good breadboard. When, not if, someone has a problem with their experimental prototype circuit not behaving as they expect, is it because they don't understand their circuit or because this particular solderless breadboard+components aren't working nominally?

A beginner will be thoroughly confused by that, and quite possibly unnecessarily disheartened.

OTOH, someone that knows enough to be sure that their design is correct (and hence there's no problem with the solderless breadboard+components) doesn't need to prototype their circuit on a solderless breadboard in the first place.

[MarkS]

Easy fella. ...snip...

tggzzz has a particular bias against breadboards, and not without reason. They are problematic, especially at moderate to high frequencies. Their most notable issue is ringing. I think the limit is somewhere around 1 MHz before the problems start, and if you are not aware of the limitations of breadboards, you'll spend all your time debugging a breadboard issue masquerading as a circuit issue. Just know what you're getting into.

[MarkS]

Er, no. As the OP notes, there is a problem with solderless breadboards: many are unreliable. Many people, including the OP, run into that.

Let's consider someone making a circuit that is well within the capabilities of a good breadboard. When, not if, someone has a problem with their experimental prototype circuit not behaving as they expect, is it because they don't understand their circuit or because this particular solderless breadboard+components aren't working nominally?

A beginner will be thoroughly confused by that, and quite possibly unnecessarily disheartened.

OTOH, someone that knows enough to be sure that their design is correct (and hence there's no problem with the solderless breadboard+components) doesn't need to prototype their circuit on a solderless breadboard in the first place.

You're not wrong, but you throw the good breadboards in with the bad. A good breadboard, with an understanding of its limitations and potential issues, is a handy tool. The biggest issue is the user, not the tool.

[tggzzz]

Yet another person asks the same old question and is repeating mistakes. Why don't you rail against them?

Easy fella. Re-read my post. I would buy a good board if I knew where to buy it from in the UK. The issue isn't I want a cheap board that's good, but where to even find a good board from in the first place. The clones outnumber the genuine thing by a huge factor. This is why the question comes up so much. It would be great if there was an updated thread listing trusted suppliers and brands, then we could just pick from a list. Even searching for brands doesn't work. The merchant has to be part of a trusted supply chain, or you risk getting a copy. Hence why I asked after CPC/Farnell offerings. They're likely to be the genuine thing, even if they are rubbish.

Easy fella. Re-read my two posts before yours (plus the one after), and the link I provided.

[killingtime]

Easy fella. Re-read my two posts before yours (plus the one after), and the link I provided.

Picking a breadboard is complicated...
Reminds me of picking HiFi components when I was a teenager. Each component seemed like a new science. Even the interconnects had their own magazine. When breadboards start selling with OFC contacts, then we're really screwed.

[tggzzz]

Er, no. As the OP notes, there is a problem with solderless breadboards: many are unreliable. Many people, including the OP, run into that.

Let's consider someone making a circuit that is well within the capabilities of a good breadboard. When, not if, someone has a problem with their experimental prototype circuit not behaving as they expect, is it because they don't understand their circuit or because this particular solderless breadboard+components aren't working nominally?

A beginner will be thoroughly confused by that, and quite possibly unnecessarily disheartened.

OTOH, someone that knows enough to be sure that their design is correct (and hence there's no problem with the solderless breadboard+components) doesn't need to prototype their circuit on a solderless breadboard in the first place.

You're not wrong, but you throw the good breadboards in with the bad. A good breadboard, with an understanding of its limitations and potential issues, is a handy tool. The biggest issue is the user, not the tool.

I haven't come across a solderless breadboard that remains good over time. They degrade for many reasons including merely different size/shape leads being inserted repeatedly.

There's also the problem that many components will have been lying around and become tarnished or dirty. If they can be cleaned adequately, they will probably become rough/sharp - which is fine in the short term, but creates problems for the future.

If solderless breadboards were the only game in town, then we would live with the problems. But there are easy cheap readily available alternatives, so why expose ourselves to the pain.

[tggzzz]

Easy fella. Re-read my two posts before yours (plus the one after), and the link I provided.

Picking a breadboard is complicated...

Remember the justly famous line in "War Games", viz "the only way to win is not to play" (with solderless breadboards).

[rdl]

From what I've seen, a good quality breadboard (I tested 3M) can do 1 MHz easily and up to 10 MHz might be possible. You'd have to use good construction techniques though, keeping connections short and tight, no using those loopy "breadboard jump wires". I have a book that documents building an 8088 computer on breadboards, but I don't remember how fast it ran, maybe 5 MHz.

[armandine2]

I've had good luck with Busboard Prototype Systems breadboards.  Not too expensive, but I don't know about a UK source.  Digikey and Mouser carry them in the US.

I got quite a few BPS BB830 breadboards (BB1660 was actually 2 x BB830) on Ben Eater's recommendation - they seem pretty good to me.
Cheaper from Mouser than Amazon - if my memory is correct.

[Brianf]

The most useful accessory to a solderless beadboard is a rubbish bin. The moment that you suspect that the breadboard is playing up, bin it. They are not, in the grand scheme of things, expensive.

[tggzzz]

From what I've seen, a good quality breadboard (I tested 3M) can do 1 MHz easily and up to 10 MHz might be possible. You'd have to use good construction techniques though, keeping connections short and tight, no using those loopy "breadboard jump wires". I have a book that documents building an 8088 computer on breadboards, but I don't remember how fast it ran, maybe 5 MHz.

The clock rate is completely irrelevant with digital circuits.

For a little theory and some plotted measurements, see https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2018/05/08/digital-signal-integrity-and-bandwidth-signals-risetime-is-important-period-is-irrelevant/

While I can believe that anecdote about an 8088, did it run reliably? When a program didn't work as expected, how would someone tell whether it was because the program was wrong or there was a pattern sensitive failure?

Having said that, intermittent pattern sensitive behaviour is an excellent mechanism for honing your debugging skills

[tggzzz]

The most useful accessory to a solderless beadboard is a rubbish bin. The moment that you suspect that the breadboard is playing up, bin it. They are not, in the grand scheme of things, expensive.

The difficulty, especially for beginners, is determining whether "playing up" is due to their circuit, the breadboard, a dirty component, or stray inductance/capacitance?

Here's an example of stray inductance used as a circuit element. The mutual inductance between the horseshoe and the loop partially hidden behind it form a transformer. You bend the loop to get the correct amount of coupling! (For fun: there is a couple of hundred volts on that horseshoe, since it it connected to the valves' anodes)

[Siwastaja]

The best components and techniques I've encountered are outlined here, including reasons for the opinions.

Components are listed towards the bottom.

Can you just let it go? Is it really necessary to rally against breadboards every single time?!?

There is nothing wrong to provide the same answer to the same question.

I second tggzzz's suggestion to consider soldering (deadbug etc. over bare copper clad PCB). The construction speed advantage from solderless breadboard is small; the time spent soldering air wires and components together over a ground plane is diminishingly small. The #1 advantage is you can keep these soldered "modules" and keep using them, without having to buy more and more solderless breadboards (or dismantle the prototypes to free up your breadboards).