Banana Leads

[Moriambar]

Hi there.
I usually crimp my cables (dupont) for breadboarding.
I am in lack of banana to banana (stackable and not) and of banana to crocodile leads, which I find very useful (eg: psu-dmm; psu-breadboard).

I actually don't know what to buy: are they crimpable?
Is it better to buy the connectors and solder/crimp or are they inexpensive enough to buy a bunch of premade cables and that's it?

I don't want to spend a fckton of money, but I don't want some cheap chinese cable/connector die on me (it happened in the past).

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[tooki]

Assuming we are talking about top quality manufacturers like Stäubli and Hirschmann, then you won’t save any money by making the cables yourself. (And known high-quality Chinese cables are only trivially cheaper.) Quality silicone test lead wire is not cheap to buy on its own.

The real motivation to make your own is to make custom cables in lengths and configurations that aren’t readily available.

In fact, it can be cheaper to make custom cables by starting with purchased banana-banana cables and cutting them in half, using each half to make a custom cable.

I know some banana plugs are crimpable (like Pomona 5170) but I have yet to see one where a crimp tool is specified; my hunch is that crimping is intended for high-volume production after discussing it with their engineering departments.

I often use screw terminal banana plugs to make semipermanent custom cables. That way I can reuse the parts if I don’t need it any more.

DuPont to banana is one of the cases where I make my own cables, since I can use thin 0.25mm2 silicone wire, crimped to real Amphenol Mini-PV contacts.

[tggzzz]

Hi there.
I usually crimp my cables (dupont) for breadboarding.
I am in lack of banana to banana (stackable and not) and of banana to crocodile leads, which I find very useful (eg: psu-dmm; psu-breadboard).

At the breadboard end I just use solder. That almost[1] halves the cost of the leads and provides a reliable connection.

[1] double-length lead costs a little more than a single-length lead.

[tooki]

How does solder help with a breadboard? Ordinary test lead wire is far too thick to insert.

(And just to be clear: everyone means “solderless breadboard” when they say “breadboard”. Actual wood boards, whether used with clips or by soldering, are really not used any more, and aren’t what anyone means when they say “breadboard” nowadays.)

[Moriambar]

Assuming we are talking about top quality manufacturers like Stäubli and Hirschmann, then you won’t save any money by making the cables yourself. (And known high-quality Chinese cables are only trivially cheaper.) Quality silicone test lead wire is not cheap to buy on its own.

The real motivation to make your own is to make custom cables in lengths and configurations that aren’t readily available.

In fact, it can be cheaper to make custom cables by starting with purchased banana-banana cables and cutting them in half, using each half to make a custom cable.

I know some banana plugs are crimpable (like Pomona 5170) but I have yet to see one where a crimp tool is specified; my hunch is that crimping is intended for high-volume production after discussing it with their engineering departments.

I often use screw terminal banana plugs to make semipermanent custom cables. That way I can reuse the parts if I don’t need it any more.

DuPont to banana is one of the cases where I make my own cables, since I can use thin 0.25mm2 silicone wire, crimped to real Amphenol Mini-PV contacts.

Thanks, do you have any sellers you'd recommend, based in europe, other than the "usual suspects" (digikey - albeit us -, RS, farnell, distrelec, mouser)?

BTW do you use any special crimpers for banana-dupont? Or do you just crimp the dupont side?

cheers!

[madires]

I also prefer banana plugs with a screw terminal and use wire ferules if possible (for good contact). When the grub screw is lost or the thread is worn out you can solder the wire via the hole for the grub screw. Besides the top brands there are middle class connectors too. They might not last as long as a Hirschmann but are still usable.

[Moriambar]

I also prefer banana plugs with a screw terminal and use wire ferules if possible (for good contact). When the grub screw is lost or the thread is worn out you can solder the wire via the hole for the grub screw. Besides the top brands there are middle class connectors too. They might not last as long as a Hirschmann but are still usable.

any specific brand suggestions?

[tggzzz]

How does solder help with a breadboard? Ordinary test lead wire is far too thick to insert.

(And just to be clear: everyone means “solderless breadboard” when they say “breadboard”. Actual wood boards, whether used with clips or by soldering, are really not used any more, and aren’t what anyone means when they say “breadboard” nowadays.)

Wrong.

Channelling Humpty Dumpty[1] does not help beginners. You might have a single-minded view of what constitutes a breadboard; if so it is up to you to define your use of the term.

Here's one justifiably famous application note: http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an47fa.pdf You (and possibly the OP) really should like to search the document for the word "breadboard" to see what Jim Williams regards as a breadboard.

Here's another, where the entire appendix G is devoted to "BREADBOARDING, LAYOUT AND CONNECTION TECHNIQUES" http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an120f.pdf

If you prefer another highly-skilled author, there's always Bob Pease http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/bob-pease-breadboard.htm

[1] the famous quote and concept that is still valid - and remembered - after 185(!) years...
    “I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all.”
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/humpty-dumpty

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

I like this kind of plug and Pomona is a good brand. Obviously in different colors.  Then get multi stranded Test lead wire, Silicone, which is more flexible
Banana Plug:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/1825-6/736244   

I have broken some pre made high end test leads at the Banana Plug and it is hard to repair since it is not the type with a screw,


Wire:
Look for maybe suitable, maybe 20 Gauge silicone multi strand test wire. Good stuff is silver plated

You can replace the Grub Screw at a good hardware store if necessary
For very sensitive measurements copper to copper connections are necessary without solder, but I do not think that is your concern at the present.

[Moriambar]

How does solder help with a breadboard? Ordinary test lead wire is far too thick to insert.

(And just to be clear: everyone means “solderless breadboard” when they say “breadboard”. Actual wood boards, whether used with clips or by soldering, are really not used any more, and aren’t what anyone means when they say “breadboard” nowadays.)

Wrong.

Channelling Humpty Dumpty[1] does not help beginners. You might have a single-minded view of what constitutes a breadboard; if so it is up to you to define your use of the term.

Here's one justifiably famous application note: http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an47fa.pdf You (and possibly the OP) really should like to search the document for the word "breadboard" to see what Jim Williams regards as a breadboard.

Here's another, where the entire appendix G is devoted to "BREADBOARDING, LAYOUT AND CONNECTION TECHNIQUES" http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an120f.pdf

If you prefer another highly-skilled author, there's always Bob Pease http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/bob-pease-breadboard.htm

[1] the famous quote and concept that is still valid - and remembered - after 185(!) years...
    “I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all.”
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/humpty-dumpty

I'm sorry, here in Italy breadboard (sic.) means "solderless breadboard" and nothing else. Good to know the term is ambiguous though

I like this kind of plug and Pomona is a good brand. Obviously in different colors.  Then get multi stranded Test lead wire, Silicone, which is more flexible
Banana Plug:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/1825-6/736244   

I have broken some pre made high end test leads at the Banana Plug and it is hard to repair since it is not the type with a screw,


Wire:
Look for maybe suitable, maybe 20 Gauge silicone multi strand test wire. Good stuff is silver plated

You can replace the Grub Screw at a good hardware store if necessary
For very sensitive measurements copper to copper connections are necessary without solder, but I do not think that is your concern at the present.

thanks for the suggestion. No, definitely not my concern at the moment.

[tooki]

Assuming we are talking about top quality manufacturers like Stäubli and Hirschmann, then you won’t save any money by making the cables yourself. (And known high-quality Chinese cables are only trivially cheaper.) Quality silicone test lead wire is not cheap to buy on its own.

The real motivation to make your own is to make custom cables in lengths and configurations that aren’t readily available.

In fact, it can be cheaper to make custom cables by starting with purchased banana-banana cables and cutting them in half, using each half to make a custom cable.

I know some banana plugs are crimpable (like Pomona 5170) but I have yet to see one where a crimp tool is specified; my hunch is that crimping is intended for high-volume production after discussing it with their engineering departments.

I often use screw terminal banana plugs to make semipermanent custom cables. That way I can reuse the parts if I don’t need it any more.

DuPont to banana is one of the cases where I make my own cables, since I can use thin 0.25mm2 silicone wire, crimped to real Amphenol Mini-PV contacts.

Thanks, do you have any sellers you'd recommend, based in europe, other than the "usual suspects" (digikey - albeit us -, RS, farnell, distrelec, mouser)?

In Europe, reichelt (.de, .com, etc) is a fantastic source at great prices.

BTW do you use any special crimpers for banana-dupont? Or do you just crimp the dupont side?

I don't crimp banana connectors. (I thought that would be obvious based on my reply??)

I crimp the dupont side using an official tool for AMPMODU MOD IV, which is similar enough to work okay.

Crimp tools for dupont is a big subject unto itself:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/affordable-crimp-tools-for-small-connectors-(dupont-etc-)/

[tooki]

How does solder help with a breadboard? Ordinary test lead wire is far too thick to insert.

(And just to be clear: everyone means “solderless breadboard” when they say “breadboard”. Actual wood boards, whether used with clips or by soldering, are really not used any more, and aren’t what anyone means when they say “breadboard” nowadays.)

Wrong.

Channelling Humpty Dumpty[1] does not help beginners. You might have a single-minded view of what constitutes a breadboard; if so it is up to you to define your use of the term.

Here's one justifiably famous application note: http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an47fa.pdf You (and possibly the OP) really should like to search the document for the word "breadboard" to see what Jim Williams regards as a breadboard.

Here's another, where the entire appendix G is devoted to "BREADBOARDING, LAYOUT AND CONNECTION TECHNIQUES" http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an120f.pdf

If you prefer another highly-skilled author, there's always Bob Pease http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/bob-pease-breadboard.htm

...

Oh hush. I'm right and you know it. It's not just me. (And I did specify in a way: I said "nowadays", allowing for it to mean something else in the past.)

Breadboarding has always meant quick prototyping of some sort. Some have considered perfboard to be breadboard, others don't. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadboard

It sounds to me as though it was Williams and Pease who actually used the terms in ways contrary to modern usage. Skilled or not, their usage does not align with the contemporary meaning of the word. Their construction methods more align with what we today would refer to as dead-bug, manhattan, and/or perfboard/protoboard construction.

The fact remains that nowadays, the word "breadboard" is synonymous with "solderless breadboard" for practically everyone in electronics because we use other terminology for everything else.

[tooki]

I like this kind of plug and Pomona is a good brand. Obviously in different colors.  Then get multi stranded Test lead wire, Silicone, which is more flexible
Banana Plug:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/1825-6/736244   

I like the Pomona 1825 (the dash and number indicate the color), too. I often use them for an initial "test" cable to see if it's worth making a permanent soldered version.

The downside is that they conform to the American style of banana plug/jack, which is shorter/shallower than the European style. Some European banana plugs will not stack snugly into an 1825.

For dupont test leads, I use 24AWG (0.25mm²) silicone from AliExpress. It's better than the stuff I have found on Digikey, for example (from Caltest; it has too much "memory" of its shape). Anything thicker than that is just too annoying for a breadboard. (In fact, I may use 26AWG in the future, at least for some.) Alternatively, use ultrafine stranded PVC wire (DIN wire code LiFY). In particular, LiFY from Kabeltronik is extremely finely stranded (128 x 0,05, vs. typical 65 x 0,07 for 0.25mm²). PVC is not as temperature resistant as silicone, but it's more robust against friction, and can be easier to untangle.

[madires]

any specific brand suggestions?

BKL electronic for example. I had some luck with no-name banana plugs sold by Reichelt.

[David Hess]

I prefer the banana plugs which have a screw to clamp the lead, however I add an Anderson Powerpole in the middle of all of my banana lead sets so that the plugs and ends are interchangeable.

[tggzzz]

How does solder help with a breadboard? Ordinary test lead wire is far too thick to insert.

(And just to be clear: everyone means “solderless breadboard” when they say “breadboard”. Actual wood boards, whether used with clips or by soldering, are really not used any more, and aren’t what anyone means when they say “breadboard” nowadays.)

Wrong.

Channelling Humpty Dumpty[1] does not help beginners. You might have a single-minded view of what constitutes a breadboard; if so it is up to you to define your use of the term.

Here's one justifiably famous application note: http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an47fa.pdf You (and possibly the OP) really should like to search the document for the word "breadboard" to see what Jim Williams regards as a breadboard.

Here's another, where the entire appendix G is devoted to "BREADBOARDING, LAYOUT AND CONNECTION TECHNIQUES" http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an120f.pdf

If you prefer another highly-skilled author, there's always Bob Pease http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/bob-pease-breadboard.htm

[1] the famous quote and concept that is still valid - and remembered - after 185(!) years...
    “I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all.”
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/humpty-dumpty

I'm sorry, here in Italy breadboard (sic.) means "solderless breadboard" and nothing else. Good to know the term is ambiguous though

No need to apologise! It is always difficult working in two languages That includes English vs American, where some words have very different meanings!

Here's a reasonable definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breadboard

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

As my High School Latin teacher was fond of saying:: 

We speak "United States" which is not necessarily "American"  and definitely not "English"

[tggzzz]

As my High School Latin teacher was fond of saying:: 

We speak "United States" which is not necessarily "American"  and definitely not "English"

And now they ought to modify that to "partially United" But then it is also the Disunited Kingdom

[tooki]

No need to apologise! It is always difficult working in two languages That includes English vs American, where some words have very different meanings!

Here's a reasonable definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breadboard

Oh don’t start with this crap. We speak English in the United States. (There is no language called “American”.) As a reminder, I studied linguistics, too, in addition to tech. American English and British English are two dialects of a single language, they are not separate languages, and the differences in vocabulary are way smaller than the British like to pretend.

As the saying goes: the US and the UK are two nations divided by a common language!

[tooki]

This is a really inexpensive solution. You can crimp or solder or both.

Crimp or solder, NEVER BOTH within the same joint!!

Also I thought that he was most likely using Banana Plugs on Breadboard for mostly power connections. That is why I thought the larger wire would be better. Smaller wire probably is fine since power requirements for breadboard assemblies is usually quite low. I require bigger wire because the radio under test is usually a transmitter.
I have purchased nice silicone wire from ebay, The prices for Banana stuff seems much too high on ebay though.
I will keep your suggestion about wire from Ali in mind. Thanks, Tooki.

If need be I can find you a link to my preferred supplier, whose wire is the nicest IMHO.

P.S. Could you edit your reply above so that your reply is outside the blockquote tag? As it is right now, it’s impossible to tell where my text ends and yours begins.

[David Hess]

This is a really inexpensive solution. You can crimp or solder or both.

Crimp or solder, NEVER BOTH within the same joint!!

Why not?  A good crimp connection is hermetic so should not require soldering, but a good crimp connection is not always possible.

The danger of soldering is that it wicks up stranded wire making a point where stress can concentrate, but this applies whether a crimp connection is made or not, and this can be avoided by using an anti wicking tool combined with strain relief.

[tggzzz]

No need to apologise! It is always difficult working in two languages That includes English vs American, where some words have very different meanings!

Here's a reasonable definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breadboard

Oh don’t start with this crap. We speak English in the United States. (There is no language called “American”.) As a reminder, I studied linguistics, too, in addition to tech. American English and British English are two dialects of a single language, they are not separate languages, and the differences in vocabulary are way smaller than the British like to pretend.

As the saying goes: the US and the UK are two nations divided by a common language!

Dialects can be very different from one another. Here it is obvious, since there are so many in close proximity; go a hundred miles and it can be difficult to understand everything someone is saying. Some of the dialects are famous, e.g. Cockney and (to a lesser extent) Brizzle. And that's without considering the different countries.

A couple of well-known amusing US-UK examples... In a busy town centre, it is acceptable to bum a fag, but seeing someone's pants will attract police's attention. The reverse is true in the US.