Beginners, say hello to DS212 ($89 open source 1Mhz STM32 Color Pocket Scope)

[Cliff Matthews]

Banggood favors this fun German blogger, I can't imagine the freebies he gets.. This looks like a winner.

https://www.banggood.com/MINI-DS212-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Portable-Nano-Handheld-Bandwidth-1MHz-Sampling-Rate-10MSas-p-1202288.html
  *edit - They've dropped the price to $89 for now (same as the JYE's plastic tiny touch screen DSO112A)

[xani]

.... why? beginners would benefit more from used $50-100 analog scope or one of those USB scopes.

Sure it can have some niche uses, especially with software open and all but, as one that had one of first versions of it as "first scope", would not recommend it as first scope.

[Cliff Matthews]

Not saying it 's better than a used CRO, but as a parent I'm aware of what appeals to our latest crop of hobbyists.
- It looks like a phone and it's black, so it fits trends
- It's got a metal case, so the iphone crowd will notice
- Like Minecraft, you'll be able to get OSS "mods" for it
- It's at the right price point: "Awe mom! it's not even a hundred bucks.."
- Big sell: They don't like math (my sons hate counting divisions.. "dad, that's so old school")
- Sig-gen and as shown a small arb-gen is possible
From DSO138, to DSO-shell and now this... but there is a progression. Maybe not this model (I don't think those encoders will last 3-months) but they are getting closer.

[TomS_]

- It looks like a phone and it's black, so it fits trends
- It's got a metal case, so the iphone crowd will notice
- Like Minecraft, you'll be able to get OSS "mods" for it

Form over function .. kids these days 

[kalel]

"Real" (faster, larger) oscilloscopes start at $200+. Okay, the first I found is the $270 Hantek 100MHz 1GSa/s DSO5102P. I have no idea if it's any good, but the sample rate difference is much larger than the price difference and it looks good (to a novice like me).

So if it was supposed to be a first oscilloscope (to beat the USB ones starting at $50), it does need to be either cheaper than it is (to have a comparable price) or have some better specs in my opinion.

I'd be happier to see the next DSO138 "step up" at a similar price point (either official or from someone else).

[Peabody]

It's nice that it has two whole channels.  :-)  But I don't think the price needs to be that high just for that.  I would bet you that JYE Tech will have a two-channel version of the Shell in due course for a lot less than $100.

[Cliff Matthews]

..I would bet you that JYE Tech will have a two-channel version of the Shell in due course for a lot less than $100.

Hope you're right, novice's can benefit from heathy competition.

*Now if only RD Tech can iron-out the kinks in their power supply's, Dave could update the "Build an Electronics Lab for $330" to even more agreeable levels. With DMM's like those made by Aneng/Kasuntest, entry level could drop to $250.

*edit - I forgot it was "Electronics Lab for $330" not $300

[xani]

The only niche I can see for those is either something you carry with your toolbox for occasional debugging of problems, or "my desk space is really tiny and I can't have a PC near it"

*Now if only RD Tech can iron-out the kinks in their power supply's, Dave could update the "Build an Electronics Lab for $330" to even more agreeable levels. With DMM's like those made by Aneng/Kasuntest, entry level could drop to $250.

*edit - I forgot it was "Electronics Lab for $330" not $300

Stuff like Analog Discovery 2 seems like a better option for ~$300 budget tbh. If you do low power stuff you could probably get by with just AD2 builtin power supply. And it probably won't go obsolete once you get a "real" scope as it can still be useful (differential inputs, signal gen, spectrum analyzer etc)

[cdev]

This little scope could likely be made for very little in parts.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Banggood favors this fun German blogger, I can't imagine the freebies he gets

Banggood offer stuff to anyone who will give them the free publicity.

[cdev]

Its very cute and neat looking but its too slow for most of the things many people do. That said, it likely would be useful as a 2nd scope despite its speed because its battery powered and so, floating.

The only niche I can see for those is either something you carry with your toolbox for occasional debugging of problems, or "my desk space is really tiny and I can't have a PC near it"

*Now if only RD Tech can iron-out the kinks in their power supply's, Dave could update the "Build an Electronics Lab for $330" to even more agreeable levels. With DMM's like those made by Aneng/Kasuntest, entry level could drop to $250.

*edit - I forgot it was "Electronics Lab for $330" not $300

Stuff like Analog Discovery 2 seems like a better option for ~$300 budget tbh. If you do low power stuff you could probably get by with just AD2 builtin power supply. And it probably won't go obsolete once you get a "real" scope as it can still be useful (differential inputs, signal gen, spectrum analyzer etc)

[xani]

Its very cute and neat looking but its too slow for most of the things many people do. That said, it likely would be useful as a 2nd scope despite its speed because its battery powered and so, floating.

Well apparently you can now get a differential probe for ~$150 so even that niche is shrinking

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Micsig-Oscilloscope-Probe-Accessories-Parts-1300V-100MHz-High-Voltage-Differential-Probe-kit-3-5ns-Rise-Time/32828136026.html

(altho common mode voltage on 50x is a bit low to make it useful in a lot of cases)

[Cliff Matthews]

Not really for beginners and you're not going to make someone too happy here Don't tell him it's $148.
However it doesn't show any CAT markings either.. Maybe that's par for the course with Micsig?.

[xani]

Not really for beginners and you're not going to make someone too happy here Don't tell him it's $148.
However it doesn't show any CAT markings either.. Maybe that's par for the course with Micsig?.

Read the specs. 1300V is on x500, x50 is only 130V common mode (for comparision, one Dave's is stocking has 700V on both x10 and x100 (and a CAT rating).

there is, of course, already a thread on it https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-low-cost-($170)-100mhz-differential-scope-probe-from-micsig/

[cdev]

Here is another STM32-based O-scope project.

http://stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1847


I'm amazed at the functionality they can extract out of these amazingly affordable boards and chips.

Basically one can get pretty close to a $20 O-scope with an STM-32 and a color touch screen TFT display..

[xani]

The power of open source and affordable hardware; you will get *someone* that have more time and/or knowledge than the original author and doesn't have project manager to veto every feature you want to put in the product

Makes you wonder what would happen if say Rigol software was open source

[paulca]

The power of open source and affordable hardware; you will get *someone* that have more time and/or knowledge than the original author and doesn't have project manager to veto every feature you want to put in the product

Makes you wonder what would happen if say Rigol software was open source

Corporations be all like:

[Kjelt]

If it had a touchscreen it could have been a nice roomcontrol or display device to put your own code in.

[cdev]

THIS IS NOT OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE UNLESS THE PLANS, FIRMWARE, ETC ARE ONLINE AD PUBLISHED UNDER AN OPEN SOURCE LICENSE SO PEOPLE CAN BUILD ONE THEMSELVES.

Are they, if so, where?

[mikeselectricstuff]

THIS IS NOT OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE UNLESS THE PLANS, FIRMWARE, ETC ARE ONLINE AD PUBLISHED UNDER AN OPEN SOURCE LICENSE SO PEOPLE CAN BUILD ONE THEMSELVES.

Are they, if so, where?

Did anyone claim it was open source hardware ?
The firmware is, which is by far the most useful thing to publish.
http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1816
Nobody is going to bother building one - schematic might be useful but this thing looks simple enough to work out anything you really need to.

[jaromir]

THIS IS NOT OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE UNLESS THE PLANS, FIRMWARE, ETC ARE ONLINE AD PUBLISHED UNDER AN OPEN SOURCE LICENSE SO PEOPLE CAN BUILD ONE THEMSELVES.

Are they, if so, where?

Manufacturer's site contains firmware
http://minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1816&extra=page%3D1%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D112
It's not released under any particular open-source license, as many Chinese folks don't have time to play those games.

[cdev]

The price seems low enough so that its quite attractive to buy.

Ive seen a bunch of STM32 scope projects and some of them are quite nice. The cost of some STM32 boards is very low. So the possibility definitely exists to build one's own or something quite similar.

THIS IS NOT OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE UNLESS THE PLANS, FIRMWARE, ETC ARE ONLINE AD PUBLISHED UNDER AN OPEN SOURCE LICENSE SO PEOPLE CAN BUILD ONE THEMSELVES.

Are they, if so, where?

Did anyone claim it was open source hardware ?
The firmware is, which is by far the most useful thing to publish.
http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1816
Nobody is going to bother building one - schematic might be useful but this thing looks simple enough to work out anything you really need to.

[Cliff Matthews]

Did anyone claim it was open source hardware ?
The firmware is, which is by far the most useful thing to publish.
http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1816
Nobody is going to bother building one - schematic might be useful but this thing looks simple enough to work out anything you really need to.

I'd say some misinformation in the video? at 42 sec. ("this one's completely open source")
https://youtu.be/lxxS6rvrk3o?t=41
I'm not sure who minidso.com is, but the OEM could be Sainsmart https://www.sainsmart.com/collections/tools-instruments/products/dso212-2-ch-handheld-mini-digital-oscilloscope

https://www.sainsmart.com/collections/tools-instruments/products/dso212-2-ch-handheld-mini-digital-oscilloscope

[Gyro]

I'm not sure who minidso.com is, but the OEM could be Sainsmart

I don't think so but they may be re-selling them. You have to watch Sainsmart, they pirated the DSO138 for instance.

[tooki]

- It looks like a phone and it's black, so it fits trends
- It's got a metal case, so the iphone crowd will notice
- Like Minecraft, you'll be able to get OSS "mods" for it

Form over function .. kids these days 

Yeah, god forbid someone pay attention to fit and finish... since we suffered with ugly, hard to use tools, so should everyone else... 

I think this is also the first time I’ve seen an engineer disparage something because it’s extensible... so closed-box (like iPhone) is bad, and open-source and extensible is bad, too. Got it.