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| Best Oscilloscope for complete beginner? |
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| DDunfield:
Just to chime in... I have the VDS1022I (in my portable kit), as well as several bench scopes (incl DS1054Z) and a couple scopemeters. I agree that physical knobs and switches are better on the bench that fiddling with a mouse, but the VDS is actually not too bad in this respect. They don't use idiotic "virtual knobs", the settings are just displayed, with drop-down menus when you click them. Easy to see the current setup, and easy to change things. I expect the newbies who've been using computers/GUIs "their whole life" will not have any problems with it. As for starting with an analog scope, I do agree that for your very first exposure to a scope, and analog is simpler and the functions it performs tend to be more clearly understandable, but you don't have to go far in electronics (especially digital) before you want a DSO. Add to that that the VDS1022 is not a complex DSO and certainly can be used with just the basic functions in a manner almost exactly like an analog scope, and I don't think it's a bad starting point at all for a student. Having all the students using the same thing will be a benefit, and the VDS1022 is probably a very good fit. It's new, so everyone can have the same one, it's inexpensive, and it works (going much cheaper gets you things that don't really work). As far as the 'I' version, I would highly recommend it. I've seen it for as little as $10 more than the non-I. As far as the class goes, it won't make a difference as the function and software is exactly the same, those who really can't afford the difference would be able to use the non-'I' with no problems. Dave |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: Gyro on April 20, 2019, 08:30:45 am ---Who knows, in the future we may find that the knobs become an anachronism (particularly if they keep using cheap Chinese encoders), and GUI becomes the norm when they start fitting them with decent sized screens, tablet style. Everything else seems to be heading that way. --- End quote --- I sure hope not. I loathe touchscreens, fingerprints everywhere, yuck. I tolerate it on my phone because it's not practical to have real input devices in my pocket but controlling a scope that way sounds painful. |
| Gyro:
I agree, but I'm 'of an age'. Who knows what the next generation will want... "Knobs are so last year" :D Edit: Just spotted case in point... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheapest-touchscreen-oscillorscope/ |
| exe:
--- Quote from: james_s on April 20, 2019, 05:36:59 pm ---I sure hope not. I loathe touchscreens, fingerprints everywhere, yuck. I tolerate it on my phone because it's not practical to have real input devices in my pocket but controlling a scope that way sounds painful. --- End quote --- The choice of my first scope was heavily influenced but opinions like this. There is quite a bit of resistance from senior and experienced engineers who push back to have buttons on equipment. Now, looking back after more than one year of having to1104, I clearly see that most people who object touch-screens haven't even tried it. I'm not going to convince anyone that touch screens are "not that bad", "less evil than people think", etc. At the end It's a personal thing. But what I find not right is saying that "it must be bad because it sounds bad". In my opinion touch control is superior to knobs because the user can directly manipulate the waveforms. It's hard to explain it, but when I work with my scope I feel like I can "touch" the waveform. I can zoom in and out (even though pinch zoom is not implemented, but there are buttons in the right place on the screen to do it), change sensitivity, offset, do measurements, all in a very intuitive way. Like, when I do measurements I just point on the screen right in the place where cursor should be, etc. It feels very intuitive. Not everything is ideal, there is a learning curve ("damn, where is my math function?", "how to adjust trigger??", "how to do fine adjustment?", "what if two waveform overlap, how to select the specific one?"), but after using my scope for a while I don't want to go back to knobs. To me bad experience with touch devices is a UI/UX problem, not a fundamental problem of touch screens per se. Not to say this opens opportunity to new form-factors. I tried knobs, it was not up to my expectations. For example, on a four-channel scope I wanted dedicated controls for each channel because people say it's a way to go. In practice for me it was quite hard to get to the right knob. Dunno why, but I prefer single control for all channels with buttons to select active channel (sure it's a matter of practice, but still). Or cursor positioning. A good velocity control makes it easy to fine positioning, as well doing big adjustments, but I found that just dragging by a finger is more convenient. Sorry for the long rant. I promised myself not to get involved in discussions like 'what's the best oscilloscope for beginners", "analog scope vs dso", "touch vs buttons", but at the end broke my own rules :). By no way I'm saying that I'm right and you are not. I just want to provide an alternative opinion so potential buyers do not remove touch scopes from consideration. There is also a place for hybrid controls, that's the way most if not all higher-end scopes do nowadays (even though knobs seems to be the primary way to control it). |
| DDunfield:
--- Quote from: exe on April 21, 2019, 05:45:48 am --- --- Quote from: james_s on April 20, 2019, 05:36:59 pm ---I sure hope not. I loathe touchscreens, fingerprints everywhere, yuck. I tolerate it on my phone because it's not practical to have real input devices in my pocket but controlling a scope that way sounds painful. --- End quote --- The choice of my first scope was heavily influenced but opinions like this. There is quite a bit of resistance from senior and experienced engineers who push back to have buttons on equipment. Now, looking back after more than one year of having to1104, I clearly see that most people who object touch-screens haven't even tried it. I'm not going to convince anyone that touch screens are "not that bad", "less evil than people think", etc. At the end It's a personal thing. But what I find not right is saying that "it must be bad because it sounds bad". --- End quote --- FWIW, I don't mind the touch screen on my phone or tablets, but I dislike them on test equipment for the same reason I don't like them in my car .. you can't operate them without looking at them. When I'm holding a probe on with one hand, and trying to glance at the screen from time to time, the last thing I want to do is have to focus on my other hand to make sure it hasn't drifted over to another control (which Murphy sez will really screw things up, and I won't know which one it was because I wasn't looking at it). Once I get my finger planted on a knob, I can pretty much keep them there without having to check. Dave |
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