EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: SuperMiguel on September 21, 2010, 11:09:41 am
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Can you guys recommend any book to read beforing reaidng AoE (since it is a bit advance) ??
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not really I've given up being screwed by writers who often seem to think they can write about any subject electronics included by simply copying out information from a number of other inaccurate books, stick with the art of electronics, if it is going over your head you might want to ask around the net or find an old school book second hand
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1155.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1155.0)
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i think if your prepared to get a few basics under your belt and understand you may have to go back on sections as you understand others the AoE might not be so bad, I've started it myself but have jumped the end of BJT's as it's not my prime interest and I'll come back to it later
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not really I've given up being screwed by writers who often seem to think they can write about any subject electronics included by simply copying out information from a number of other inaccurate books, stick with the art of electronics, if it is going over your head you might want to ask around the net or find an old school book second hand
Well on the art of electronics, i ahve only read the first chapter which has multiple equations, and it kinda bored me, making me not understand it.. So i stopped reading it, since i tough the hole book was going to be that boring...
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I have the AoE in .pdf format but I'd still like to get the book. The problem is that in the UK the book is over £100. Which in MY book (the book of life) is a bloody rip off!
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SuperMiguel,
Getting Started in Electronics is good for beginners.
Read the thread I've linked to and check your private messages for more information.
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not really I've given up being screwed by writers who often seem to think they can write about any subject electronics included by simply copying out information from a number of other inaccurate books, stick with the art of electronics, if it is going over your head you might want to ask around the net or find an old school book second hand
Well on the art of electronics, i ahve only read the first chapter which has multiple equations, and it kinda bored me, making me not understand it.. So i stopped reading it, since i tough the hole book was going to be that boring...
in the beginning, its the same to me. but later i think, if you have a specific area of interest, then this book should be one of the good reference.
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I am currently working my way through this: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/)
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I am currently working my way through this: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/)
His definition of current flow is reversed compared what everyone else uses. Keep that in mind when talking with other people or reading information from other sources like the AoE, which will assume conventional current direction.
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I am currently working my way through this: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/)
His definition of current flow is reversed compared what everyone else uses. Keep that in mind when talking with other people or reading information from other sources like the AoE, which will assume conventional current direction.
Who in the world would use anything other than the accepted current flows from positive to negative??? (although this is opposite the direction of electron movement (but they are really really slow movers in conductors anyway ;) )
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I am currently working my way through this: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/)
His definition of current flow is reversed compared what everyone else uses. Keep that in mind when talking with other people or reading information from other sources like the AoE, which will assume conventional current direction.
Who in the world would use anything other than the accepted current flows from positive to negative??? (although this is opposite the direction of electron movement (but they are really really slow movers in conductors anyway ;) )
to be honest, i like this new controversial way, its the true nature of the "physical" electrons, but.... that may be deserved for young players/people. I hope one day, people will converse this way, but... i dont think this is for us the older player, for now.
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to be honest, i like this new controversial way, its the true nature of the "physical" electrons, but.... that may be deserved for young players/people. I hope one day, people will converse this way, but... i dont think this is for us the older player, for now.
Yes, we are the older generation. Two quarters ago in one of my EE classes the professor was going over some review material and said conductance is measured in Siemens. I was being silly and asked if we would get points off if we used "mhos" at which point the whole class started laughing thinking I was joking. They still thought I was joking when I said we could use an upside down ohm symbol to represent it. The prof was smiling though because he knew what I was talking about. Are we really that old now?
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to be honest, i like this new controversial way, its the true nature of the "physical" electrons, but.... that may be deserved for young players/people. I hope one day, people will converse this way, but... i dont think this is for us the older player, for now.
But actual electrons are rarely important unless you're into things like vacuum tubes or semiconductor physics, so the fact that the convention doesn't agree with current physics is in my opinion not enough reason to confuse all newbies trying to combine information from both All About Circuits and other resources. Yes, someone in the past guessed wrong (he/she had 50% chance), but it's not like it's causing lots of troubles. Every EE knows that electrons move in the opposite direction of the current flow, and mentioning that in the first chapter would be quite sufficient. The cost/benefit ratio is just not there to support this decision. The cost is confusion, the benefit is smart-ass cred for the author.
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I have the AoE in .pdf format but I'd still like to get the book. The problem is that in the UK the book is over £100. Which in MY book (the book of life) is a bloody rip off!
you can get them off amazon for under £50 I got mine for 40 and it's in good condition too
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to be honest, i like this new controversial way, its the true nature of the "physical" electrons, but.... that may be deserved for young players/people. I hope one day, people will converse this way, but... i dont think this is for us the older player, for now.
I tend to use current flow in rare situations when there's a circuit with a negative supply and no positive.
Anyway, current actually flows in both directions: electrons may flow from positive to negative but holes (space where electrons should normally be) flow from positive to negative, which is always true, unless the electrons a flowing through a vacuum but that's not very common in today's equipment.
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I have the AoE in .pdf format but I'd still like to get the book. The problem is that in the UK the book is over £100. Which in MY book (the book of life) is a bloody rip off!
you can get them off amazon for under £50 I got mine for 40 and it's in good condition too
Yea I've seen those mate, I'd prefer to get a new one though or at least one that's in mint condidtion and they're between £70 & £90. I'm sure that before I got back in to electronics they used to be on Amazon for around £45 - £50 (brand new.) I feel that somebody is trying to make easy money as they're running short on copy's.
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You can buy AOE on Amazon.de for 50€, shipping included. I have just reserved it (the is no stock until october 30).
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any input on this book : http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619 (http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619)
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I have the AoE in .pdf format but I'd still like to get the book. The problem is that in the UK the book is over £100. Which in MY book (the book of life) is a bloody rip off!
you can get them off amazon for under £50 I got mine for 40 and it's in good condition too
Yea I've seen those mate, I'd prefer to get a new one though or at least one that's in mint condidtion and they're between £70 & £90. I'm sure that before I got back in to electronics they used to be on Amazon for around £45 - £50 (brand new.) I feel that somebody is trying to make easy money as they're running short on copy's.
well mine was in pretty good condition infact very well kept, a very worth while compromise on the huge saving. I bought my hard copy so that I can carry it around so no point in having a book so perfect I'd be scared to take it out of the house
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any input on this book : http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619 (http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619)
read the description, you already need to know a thing or two, sounds like a get out of jail clause for a poorly written book. As for being 30 years old, well try reading mike predco's monument of a cockup (which has been around a while also and has reached it's third edition), his book is revered by many but really I can't see all the hoo haa and frankly want a book that gives me facts not dribble about how he prefers to do things and what his standard technique is: that's something he can blog about, yea actually that's a good description of his book, one massive blog and we know what they are worth !
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any input on this book : http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619 (http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Teaching-Guides/dp/0470289619)
Did you get my private message?
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to be honest, i like this new controversial way, its the true nature of the "physical" electrons, but.... that may be deserved for young players/people. I hope one day, people will converse this way, but... i dont think this is for us the older player, for now.
But the thing is, the guy completely missed the point. Current is not electron flow. Current is an abstract concept based on the movement of electric charges, positive charges in the case of current. Reversing the current flow immediately brings you in trouble with other quantities, such as the orientation of a magnetic field (right-hand rule).
Don't forget the ampere is an SI base unit and an incredible amount of stuff is derived from these base units.
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Current, in the case of the Ampere, is literally dC/dt or coulombs/s. When using Amperes like in conventional electronics its not a directional vector quantity, like a current density which you might encounter in plasma physics which would typically have the units of (electron#/volume/time) with a direction.
If shafri was flying around in a circle with a charge of 1 coulomb at a rate of 1 rotation per second than the current at any point on that circle would be 1 amp, regardless of what is carrying that charge and in which direction.
In a hierarchal sense, a measurement of current in Amps is devoid of direction. As long as your reference of flow is constant throughout your analysis and you take into consideration the behavior of field controlled devices you can arrive at the same conclusions regardless of what the actual electrons are doing.
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Awww, many fond memories of Forrest Mimms Getting Started in Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0945053282/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0FHYX05BNP3E26CR0A17&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)
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I was just flipping back through Chapter 1 of AoE and I see what you mean. It starts off simple enough talking about voltage and resistance, then jumps around to tunnel diodes before touching on capacitors, then it slams you with complex number impedance and reactance. I could see how this could be a bit much for a person who was just starting. :-[
But if you quit on chapter 1, you don't get to meet "transistor man" in all his glory.
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But if you quit on chapter 1, you don't get to meet "transistor man" in all his glory.
You'd also miss the long tailed pair! :)
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I was just flipping back through Chapter 1 of AoE and I see what you mean. It starts off simple enough talking about voltage and resistance, then jumps around to tunnel diodes before touching on capacitors, then it slams you with complex number impedance and reactance. I could see how this could be a bit much for a person who was just starting. :-[
But if you quit on chapter 1, you don't get to meet "transistor man" in all his glory.
Yea i noticed that the book made a rather stony start, I think that in trying to make it simple they just made it harder, hec the physics of electricity is not rocket science and if learning it gets you started then that's how it should be explained, if your thinking of doing electronics should should know what an atom is.
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I used to read books from Bernard Babani publishing. They do good books to learn from, with simple basic circuit building blocks, a bit like a tandy electronics kit manual.
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But if you quit on chapter 1, you don't get to meet "transistor man" in all his glory.
You'd also miss the long tailed pair! :)
Isn't transistor man in chapter1? Only read the first couple of pages so far but takes me back to my apprentice days and the long nights at tech. Happy days
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Does anyone have the 'Full' AoE as a .pdf they'd be willing to share please? I've got a copy of my own but It's become corrupt & the first few sections are missing :(
Thanks guys
orb
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Something I've mentioned before but here goes again
Lessons in Electric Circuits http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/index.htm (http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/index.htm)
All the pdf books can be fitted on a memory stick and are regularly updated/amended.
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Isn't transistor man in chapter1? Only read the first couple of pages so far but takes me back to my apprentice days and the long nights at tech. Happy days
Nah, transistor man is chapter 2. Chapter 1 starts with some pretty complex stuff for a beginner (including fun like complex math), but at least the transistor is saved for chapter 2 ;).
Does anyone have the 'Full' AoE as a .pdf they'd be willing to share please? I've got a copy of my own but It's become corrupt & the first few sections are missing :(
I don't think using this forum for copyright infringement is a good plan if you don't want Dave to get in trouble. Most forums forbid illegal behavior in the forum rules for a reason (don't think this forum has any written rules or policy, except possibly SMF defaults which probably does forbid it).
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Isn't transistor man in chapter1? Only read the first couple of pages so far but takes me back to my apprentice days and the long nights at tech. Happy days
[/quote]
Just Checked and Transistor man is indeed in chapter 2.As it says in my avatar easily confused! :-X
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Does anyone have the 'Full' AoE as a .pdf they'd be willing to share please? I've got a copy of my own but It's become corrupt & the first few sections are missing :(
Thanks guys
orb
if you let your email "NOT hidden", that will be much easier ;)
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Does anyone have the 'Full' AoE as a .pdf they'd be willing to share please? I've got a copy of my own but It's become corrupt & the first few sections are missing :(
Thanks guys
orb
Check your private messages.
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Much appreciated guys, thanks :)
if you let your email "NOT hidden", that will be much easier ;)
Thanks shafri but I've got it now :)
John
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Can I have one of those PM? ;)
Thanks.
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For me personally, AoE was a bit of a let down. I was expecting more practical examples but instead I got alot of concept and theory. No surprise though after reading in the first chapter that they attempted to create a book that utilizes little to no mathematics (however that is supposed to work!?! no mathematics in an engineering field :o) So keep that in mind. If you are like me and want practical examples with the theory then you are better off going with something like 'Electronics' by Allan R. Hambley. Its great for beginners, covers all the relevant topics and is very easy to read and follow. Moderate mathematics skills are required though. So if maths is not your thing then you are better off with AoE.
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When I was training we had to Prove certain Laws.This consisted of pages of squiggles, you never understood(fully) the theory or the proof but learned it (parrot fasion) to pass your Exams.Once passed you never brought it to mind or found a reason to use it, a total waste of time in my experience.The approximation techniques you learn are valid for most cases and prove to be the most useful in the field.As a maintenance tech design is not my forte but I need to understand and often "bodge" to effect a repair, this is were the true learning come in and exposes the different mind sets between design and function.
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Something I've mentioned before but here goes again
Lessons in Electric Circuits http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/index.htm (http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/index.htm)
All the pdf books can be fitted on a memory stick and are regularly updated/amended.
are those books any good? they seem to be a bit outdated
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The basic principles never go out of date. The books are open and a collaboratively developed text as stated so any mistakes are corrected as they are found. The AoE hasn't been updated in a while and takes up a lot of space on a bookshelf (or in a bag). I've no vested interest in mentioning the books. Just thought I'd share with the forum.
David.
P.S I have a copy of the AoE and it's still nice to read from a real book.
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I have the AoE on .pdf but have just received the 'real' book too. It's great just being able to grab the book for reference when your fiddling around with your projects.
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I have the AoE on .pdf but have just received the 'real' book too. It's great just being able to grab the book for reference when your fiddling around with your projects.
most importantly, i can just make 3-4 bookmarks with my fingers and flip to each of them very very quickly! and no eye sore due to light emitted by lcd + Hz refresh rate. When i design thing like Kindle next time.... i'll include this kind of feature.
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SuperMiguel this book is aimed at beginners, just picked it up myself to start learning -
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596153755 (http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596153755)
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the thing i hate about those kind of books is, that they tell you to use a 1k resistor, and a 100 nf capacitor, etc but they dont tell you why you need those specific values, and they dont teach the way you calculate those values.
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You can read a sample of the book I mentioned here -
http://cdn.makezine.com/make/shed/make_electronics_1.pdf (http://cdn.makezine.com/make/shed/make_electronics_1.pdf)
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I like the way they tell you how to take a potentiometer apart. That's the true engineering way of understanding things from the inside. I'm impressed!