Budget multimeter brands that use commonly avalable fuses?

[Solder_Junkie]

Wouldn’t a lack of knowledge not be the real (and only) reason why accidents with dmm’s happen?

It’s not a lack of knowledge, it’s a lapse of concentration that can be dangerous. If your decent meter is on the wrong range when you check the mains input, nothing spectacular should happen. That is why everyone that worked for the company I worked for was supplied with a Fluke. I don’t recall anyone blowing a fuse, or having a fault on their meter.

To misquote a dog charity advert, a multi-meter is for life, not just for Christmas

SJ

[Aldo22]

To an extent it might be, but the fact is that those levels of safety are needed for some uses. What I see as the bigger problem is the lack of certification for something in between. I don’t understand why the CAT rating standard eliminated the CAT I and II ratings. That way we could recommend a safe, certified CAT I meter for basic applications.

Well, you also have to look at the psychological part.

Someone who fiddles around with such devices on mains without a clue probably doesn't know what CAT ratings are anyway.

Someone who does know can guess that a $30 meter may not be the best choice for more hazardous environments, no matter what is printed on it.

In both cases, however, it is very unlikely that someone will die because of a cheaper meter. There are thousands of other reasons.

[Siwastaja]

I took a look at the statistics.
In Germany, around 13,000 people die in domestic accidents every year.
In comparison, there were 32 fatal accidents related to electricity in 2019, 7 of which happened at work.

I call this "improving safety fallacy". It is specifically visible in electricity-related deaths (which is because it is relatively simple and effective to design safer circuits). The cycle goes like this:
* X is invented because it's convenient;
* X has unsafe characteristics; as a result, people die
* Engineers find ways to make X safer without significantly increasing price or making it significantly more inconvenient
* Legislators everywhere mandate these improvements
* What causes the deaths in the first place becomes illegal
* 40-50 years passes, a whole generation passes.
* "We don't need that safety, look how little deaths we have!"

I encourage you to look at the statistics, just do it on the correct year. If you want to see how safety level of 1970's works out, look at deaths in 1970's. I happened to be interested about this as a kid and saw the plummet from 20 deaths/year to 1 death/year in Finland during only 10 year timeframe. Just electrocutions alone. 20 today would be one tenth of the deaths in car accidents; not that much, granted, but still pretty significant, and I'm pretty glad we don't need to do these unnecessary sacrifices today anymore.

[Aldo22]

@Siwastaja
Yes, the development is astonishing and nobody wants to lower the security precautions.
I have attached such a diagram.
Except I'm pretty sure it has next to nothing to do with multimeters. 

[Siwastaja]

Except I'm pretty sure it has next to nothing to do with multimeters. 

Yeah, in the same way you can say that safety of a light switch does not matter because unsafe light switches only caused 0.1 deaths per year. Yet, it would make no sense to add an exemption on light switches. You need to apply safety overall to see the effect.

[Peabody]

I apologize for not being clear in the beginning.  The friend that I'm getting the meter for is a rank beginner.  I'm more experienced than that, but still a hobbyist.  In both cases, it's almost exclusively for Arduino-type projects, mostly battery powered.  What I have in mind is a $35-40 meter that's pretty complete as far as functions are concerned.  But I just don't want fuses to be an issue for him,  as to either cost or availability.  I recognize that there are dangers when dealing with mains-powered devices, such as trying to repair them, and he will be warned about that, including charged capacitors in unplugged devices.  I realize I could spend three or four times as much for a meter capable of doing high-voltage/current stuff, but I'm just not going to do that.  I don't want him attempting that kind of work even if the meter is appropriate for it.  His fingers will not be CAT rated.

[Aldo22]

What I have in mind is a $35-40 meter that's pretty complete as far as functions are concerned. 

That's what I thought. Sounds like a ZT-225. 
Unless you need connectivity.

[Old Printer]

Finally cleared up, after three pages and 4 days of conjecture...I asked about this in the 4th post on page one.

[Electro Fan]

Looks like the price is up a bit on this:

https://www.amazon.com/VIHELM-ZT-225-high-Precision-digitalMultimeter-automaticRange/dp/B0BM4PRCYK/ref=sr_1_1?

This looks more entry level:

https://www.amazon.com/ZOYI-Multimeter-Auto-ranging-Resistance-Continuity/dp/B0DJZ4FFY5/ref=sr_1_11?

+1 for Aneng 8008

https://www.amazon.com/ANENG-AN8008-Multimeter-Resistance-Capacitance/dp/B076GZK62B/ref=sr_1_4?

[Aldo22]

Looks like the price is up a bit on this:

I don't know what you mean.
That store doesn't work for me, I can't see the price.
It hasn't become more expensive on Ali.
Right now it's on the “Welcome deal” at $26.95 shipped.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256807058008469.html
That's ridiculously cheap for this DMM.

+1 for Aneng 8008

The An8008 is certainly a nice little meter, but it's missing some functions compared to the ZT-225 and Peabody wanted “pretty complete as far as functions are concerned.”
Also, the An8008 has those special mini fuses, which is what this thread is about.

I'll probably make a list of the differences later.

[Aldo22]

OK, as promised, here is an overview of the functional differences between the AN8008, AN870 and ZT-225.

Advantages of the ZT-225 compared to the AN8008

25000 counts vs. 9999 counts
Accuracy DC: ±(0.05%+3) vs ±(0.5%+3)
Accuracy AC: ±(0.3%+3) vs ±(1.0%+3)
Max Amp: 20A vs 10A
Non Contact Voltage
Temperature measurement
Min/Max function (Important)
Rel function (Important)

Advantages of the ZT-225 compared to AN870 and AN8008

LED for continuity
Dual display:
-  AC (V or A) and frequency on the same screen
-  Frequency and duty cycle on the same screen.
-  Measure DC and AC simultaneously. Also DC+AC.

More direct selection of functions, less switching.


The only functional advantage of the AN8008 is the “Square Wave Output”.
The AN8008 loses one digit in the lower mA range.
The AN8008 has uncommon mini fuses.

According to my tests, the ZT-225 has more stable readings in the lowest range (mV -> uV) than AN870.

I'm sure there's more, but this is what comes to mind.

[BeBuLamar]

I apologize for not being clear in the beginning.  The friend that I'm getting the meter for is a rank beginner.  I'm more experienced than that, but still a hobbyist.  In both cases, it's almost exclusively for Arduino-type projects, mostly battery powered.  What I have in mind is a $35-40 meter that's pretty complete as far as functions are concerned.  But I just don't want fuses to be an issue for him,  as to either cost or availability.  I recognize that there are dangers when dealing with mains-powered devices, such as trying to repair them, and he will be warned about that, including charged capacitors in unplugged devices.  I realize I could spend three or four times as much for a meter capable of doing high-voltage/current stuff, but I'm just not going to do that.  I don't want him attempting that kind of work even if the meter is appropriate for it.  His fingers will not be CAT rated.

If you care about safety then the expensive fuse must be used. If you don't then just some foil would work besides just don't blow the fuse to begin with. All meters came with fuses installed. Also the meter still works after the fuses blown as generally they are only fused for current measurement.

[Simmed]

here is a list of some fuses from mouser etc
they are ranked according to the approximate fusing current @ 1 second

a UL 248-14 table states that a fuse should hold 200% for 120s max
but DMM-B-11A does much more at over 200s

the close match, 0090.012 (12A) will correctly fuse within 120s
strangely the 0090.012 is made for PV
  ? weird ?

when extrapolated
a DMM-B-11 would look something like a 13+A curve on the 0090.xx chart

[tooki]

a UL 248-14 table states that a fuse should hold 200% for 120s max
but DMM-B-11A does much more at over 200s

the close match, 0090.012 (12A) will correctly fuse within 120s

A DMM-B-11A (and other DMM fuses) isn't made to UL 248-14, so why do you expect it to follow that particular standard?

DMM fuses aren't UL Listed, but rather UL Recognized, which is a different certification.

Littelfuse explains in the PDF attached:

Recognized Under the Component Program of Underwriters Laboratories
The Recognized Components Program of UL is different from UL Listing. UL will test a fuse to a specification requested by the manufacturer. The test points can be different from the UL Listed requirements if the fuse has been designed for a specific application. Application approval is required by UL for fuses recognized under the Component Program.

Also, your spreadsheet has an error: Bussmann DMM-B-11A has a 20kA interrupting rating, not 10kA. (The DMM-B-44/100, which shares the same datasheet, is 10kA, so one must be careful when reading the datasheet.)

[mikerj]

AN8008 / AN8009 uses 3.6×10 mm ceramic fuses. Not unobtainable, but not very common.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/aneng-an8008-multimeter-fuses/

I modified my Aneng to use a 20mm fuse as it was almost exclusively used for car diagnostics, so low voltages.  Worked fine until the battery leaked so badly it was beyond salvage.

[mwb1100]

The old Uni-T UT61E can still be found on eBay or AliExpress for less than $50 with a bit of effort.  As this old thread mentions, it uses UK standard BS1362 fuses which are pretty easy to find even outside the UK (online).

If you want a meter with cheap fuses, get a UT61E. They use BS1362 fuses. Ten a penny, and more than adequate for electronics work (don't try 200VDC 10A unless you're very, very sure you know what you're doing, but..).

[J-R]

If you're looking to stock up on Bussmann fuses, check here: https://www.ebay.com/str/fishfarmen

[mwb1100]

I've got a small stock of 5x20mm ceramic fuses.  If someone is in need, let me know and I'll see what I can do - probably gratis or just postage.

I got them on AliExpress, so if anyone is able and willing to test that they're remotely in spec, I'll send samples gratis.

  - 250V/250mA
  - 250V/500mA
  - 250V/1A
  - 250V/10A

[bdunham7]

I've got a small stock of 5x20mm ceramic fuses.  If someone is in need, let me know and I'll see what I can do - probably gratis or just postage.

I got them on AliExpress, so if anyone is able and willing to test that they're remotely in spec, I'll send samples gratis.

  - 250V/250mA
  - 250V/500mA
  - 250V/1A
  - 250V/10A

I can test them on my current calibrator if you like.  I can do 1X, 2X and 10X or something related to whatever specs they purport to meet.  I'm limited to 20A so I won't be able to test the 10A one for 5X or10X fast blow.  Are they sold as fast/normal/slow or time-delay?

[mwb1100]

PM sent

[J-R]

Even if you're Sparky McSparkface, I don't see how you'd go through more than a handful of fuses in your entire lifetime.  So why buy questionable ones that have to be tested or already have many reports of not doing their one job properly???

In addition to DMMs: I'm plenty old and in my entire life I've replaced maybe a dozen fuses TOTAL.  All my vehicles, houses with the old glass screw-in fuses, test equipment/DMMs, etc.  Less than $100 worth, and that is buying those assortments every time instead of the one single fuse you need.

Fluke sells 5 packs of the Bussmann fuses for their DMMs if you can't find Bussmann easily.  For example:
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/fuses/fluke-440ma-1000v-fuses-5-pack
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/fuses/fluke-11a-1000v-fuses-5-pack

Some quality fuses, but factory floor scrapings, for cheap, (not necessarily for DMMs):
https://www.jameco.com/z/GB211-JAMECO-Grab-Bag-of-100-Assorted-250V-Fuses-ACG-MDL-GMA-GMD_2179243.html
https://theelectronicgoldmine.com/products/gp11

[mwb1100]

Yes, the Fluke style fuses (which may also be used in other quality multimeter brands - particularly the DMM-11A fuse) are easy to find.  And I think it makes sense to get the Bussmann or Littlefuse brands (and I'm skeptical that many of those fuses are fakes).

But the 5x20mm fuses for cheapo meters like Zotek or Aneng (most of which are Zotek rebrands) aren't quite as easy to find.  I doubt the fuses those meters come with are top notch in the first place.  In fact, if you blow a fuse in one of those meters it's probably not the worst idea to just replace the meter since they're so cheap to begin with.  But I just wanted to have some spares on hand.

I believe the no-name 5x20mm fuses will work well enough.  And I know I'll likely only need at most a couple of them over many years, so I thought I'd offer some to people who might have a blown one or feel they need a spare.

I only mentioned the testing because so many postings here and on the internet in general seem to be paranoid about fuses that aren't a name brand and that even name brand fuses are likely to be knockoffs if they aren't bought from a vendor like Digikey.  So I figured if someone wants to test them, I'd let them have at it.  I'm mostly curious how universal the claims of fake/garbage fuses are.  Not that this small sample would really prove anything one way or the other.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to buy something like the grab bags you posted links to because I wanted specifically the 5x20mm size, so that's what I looked for.

[Haenk]

Peabody, you are basically asking for a scam multimeter with bogus safety or low voltage ratings. Allows the use of small, common, low cost fuses.  Commonplace out of china.

I'd say that very much depends on the intended use. If you are using as an household item to quickly check things in your kids toys - that cheap chinese multimeter is likely fine. A standard glass fuse might explode, but - honestly - how often does that happen? And then it's still encased in a thick plastic housing, arcing is unlikely at 120V, I guess...
However, if you are using this for professional purposes or high voltages - that would be an absolute NO.

Just a note on the safety - check the cables/probes before doing line voltage. Some very cheap multimeters come with very cheap probes - just pull on the probe to check it does not detach from the cable. Had that on a 5 EUR budget multimeter I used for battery checking...

If you want something with at least a bit of certified quality standards, buy from a local hardware store or known brand, these usually have there own quality control in place.

[BeBuLamar]

How often one needs to measure current? If not most DMM I know don't have fuses for anything other than current measurements.

[Siwastaja]

How often one needs to measure current? If not most DMM I know don't have fuses for anything other than current measurements.

Quite often. Still, usually the path for the highest current range unfused, only the low ranges fused. In over 30 years of both hobby and professional use of multimeters, I have managed to blow the DMM fuse once, so I don't think fixating over the fuse replacements is worth it. Instead, getting two cheap-ish but not total dangerous crap meters would be a good idea.