buying a oscilloscoop

[scroeffie]

iam not a expert or even a amateur like you guys. i work with elderly people thats my day job ,this is just my hobby nothing more
i think the 300 euro scope is good enough for me ,dont see the need for 4 channels and more options etc like the 500 euros scopes and up
i found a commodore 1901 monitor for 15 euros working just needs some love ,more projects 

[BillyO]

Like I said, it's up to you.  It seems like a nice scope for the money, but what if something goes wrong with it?

Maybe just fire off a request to Owon about warranty support and service in your area.  See what they say.

I had bought a UNI-T scope and bench DMM.  I had problems with both but I could not get service on either one.  I could not even get a reply from UNI-T.  $600 spent and now $600 collecting dust in my basement.  Money wasted.  Gone.

Now I spend a little more and I get stuff that  guy down the road will service for me and if I send a question in to the manufacturer I have an answer usually the same day.

Again - up to you - but for 134 euro more you can get the Siglent from the same shop: https://www.eleshop.nl/siglent-sds802x-hd-oscilloscoop.html

[pcprogrammer]

iam not a expert or even a amateur like you guys. i work with elderly people thats my day job ,this is just my hobby nothing more
i think the 300 euro scope is good enough for me ,dont see the need for 4 channels and more options etc like the 500 euros scopes and up
i found a commodore 1901 monitor for 15 euros working just needs some love ,more projects 

Based on this my advice would be to buy a cheaper portable hantek or even owon like this one: https://eleshop.eu/test-measure/oscilloscopes/all-oscilloscopes/owon-hds272s-handheld-oscilloscope.html
Gives you more functions in one device, is cheaper and will do the things you want while fault finding in old computers and monitors.

No need for 12 bits in your case. Sure it is more accurate, but won't aid better in finding faults. 8 bits is plenty for your use cases.



Adrian used the Hantek version in the above video, and he can make his repairs with it.

[Doctorandus_P]

I agree with the majority here.

First, not having experience with a scope and then starting with poking around in mains voltage circuits is a bad combination.

Second. EUR300 is a difficult budget. For one or two hundred euro's more you can get a very decent scope, but for EUR300 you have to accept some heavy compromise. Update / refresh rate is a lot lower, so you miss events that occur occasionally, Scopes have much less built in functions, and other compromises. What I've heard and read of both Hantek / Owon / (Uni-T too?) is that they all have silly bugs in their user interface, or some functions that are just horribly bad designed. Because I am quite sensitive to such things myself, the minimum I would buy myself are Rigol or Siglent. With those you can be pretty confident that you have a good scope, but they are just a bit above your budget.

I am a bit curious about the handheld scopes from Owon & Hantek. I recently bought an Siglent SDS1104X-E myself, but I still may buy such a handheld scope some day "just for fun". If you are interested in such a handheld device (Obvious compromises are a cramped small screen, finicky push buttons for adjustments instead of rotary knobs) then watch the reviews from Kerry Wong, where he compares features and capabilities of Owon and Hantek handheld scopes.

[scroeffie]

i dont understand why i need a more expensive scope ? can you guys explain to me in a simple way thanks
iam not a expert like you guys i dont design pcbs and i never wil ,i do basic stuff like installing rgb mods ,looking at schematics fixing crt tvs and monitors
old computers like commodore and pcs and some videogame console repairs

not shure why i need a 4 channel scope that cost 500 euros or more

also about waranty i think with have 2 years waranty in the netherlands by law

[tggzzz]

iam not a expert or even a amateur like you guys. i work with elderly people thats my day job ,this is just my hobby nothing more
i think the 300 euro scope is good enough for me ,dont see the need for 4 channels and more options etc like the 500 euros scopes and up
i found a commodore 1901 monitor for 15 euros working just needs some love ,more projects 

It is amazing what can be done with very simple equipment (scopes included), provided there is understanding and imagination. But you can buy scopes.

Have fun, safely.

[shapirus]

i dont understand why i need a more expensive scope ? can you guys explain to me in a simple way thanks

You probably don't.

You may well be fine with one of these: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-2ch-pocket-dsosg-sigpeak-dso2512g/, $70-80ish currently on Ali. Check that thread and see if it looks reasonable.

It may be a good idea to get one of these low end scopes (but not of the absolute trash category of course) which will likely serve you well in helping you do what you need to do and, importantly, provide a cheap way of learning what else you may need from an oscilloscope. When you learn that, you will already know when and why you need 4 channels, advanced triggering and other feature (or that you don't). If you do, you will have no difficulty with justifying spending more money on a more advanced scope, and that will be money well spent, as you will know better what you need and what to look for.

The problem with $200-300 scopes is that they are neither this, nor that. They are not much better than the sub-$100 ones, and they are way behind the $400+ ones. IMO they aren't a good investment: you spend considerable money, but you get much less than you would if you spent a little more, and by going sub-$100 you save a lot, but don't lose too much in features.

iam not a expert like you guys i dont design pcbs and i never wil ,i do basic stuff like installing rgb mods ,looking at schematics

Never say never :)

fixing crt tvs and monitors

These have their caveats related to working with HV, which I'm sure you are aware of, if you work on these devices. They apply regardless of the price and level of the scope though: you would need proper probes and know the techniques in any case.

old computers like commodore and pcs and some videogame console repairs

These should be fine with very basic scopes. More advanced scopes will be more comfortable to use, but the basic ones will get the job done.

not shure why i need a 4 channel scope that cost 500 euros or more

From a hobbyist's point of view... better scopes can sometimes help you become interested in things for which you need better scopes :)

[pcprogrammer]

i dont understand why i need a more expensive scope ? can you guys explain to me in a simple way thanks
iam not a expert like you guys i dont design pcbs and i never wil ,i do basic stuff like installing rgb mods ,looking at schematics fixing crt tvs and monitors
old computers like commodore and pcs and some videogame console repairs

You most likely don't. The more advanced and expensive scopes are very useful when you do development and want to investigate a circuit you designed to check on the behavior of the circuit under different circumstances. Or when you are writing firmware for some project and you need to check if all the signals are proper in timing and frequency. High bandwidth and higher sample rate might then be needed too, driving up the cost even more. But it also takes knowledge and experience to properly use these kind of scopes.

For fault finding often a multimeter can be all you need. A scope can offer more insight when tracing specific signals like what Adrian Black shows in his videos, and he copes with the cheap two channel handhelds just fine.

Like others wrote, get used to working with a simple cheap scope first and when you think you need more you can always look into buying a better one.

not shure why i need a 4 channel scope that cost 500 euros or more

A 4 channel scope is very useful when looking into communication busses like SPI. It allows you to look at all the signals at once, but that is not something you will do while repairing a commodore 64, because it does not have SPI. With two channels you can scope bidirectional asynchronous serial communication, but you would need protocol decoding to see the actual data. The Hantek 2C10 has this capability but it is not available at eleshop. The 2D10 is though.

For looking at memory busses on old computers having two or four channels does not make that much of a difference. A logic analyzer is a better tool for that. There are mixed signal oscilloscopes that offer that too, but are of course more expensive. There are cheap 8 bit logic analyzers that can scan up to 24MHz and can be very handy with the old commodore computers, but also requires knowledge on how to use such a thing.

My advice is to watch some of Adrian's videos on how to work with a scope and search for some threads on the different models mentioned here to get some more insights on their abilities.

[baldurn]

i dont understand why i need a more expensive scope ? can you guys explain to me in a simple way thanks
iam not a expert like you guys i dont design pcbs and i never wil ,i do basic stuff like installing rgb mods ,looking at schematics fixing crt tvs and monitors
old computers like commodore and pcs and some videogame console repairs

not shure why i need a 4 channel scope that cost 500 euros or more

also about waranty i think with have 2 years waranty in the netherlands by law

Going by "need" based on what you have described, you could get an old analog scope for €50 on your local equivalent to ebay. It might not be a bad choice leaving you with more to spend on other things, like a high voltage differential probe.

But since you stated a budget of €300 that is close to some very nice options at €400. It is not that you _need_ those nice scopes, but like a nice car compared to a very budget car, it is simply much more enjoyable to work with. You get the very latest in user interface with touch screen and user-friendliness.

The €50 used analog scope with two channels might solve the task equally well, but it is heavy and clunky, taking up most of your desk. It might require you learn how to use a special trigger input as a third channel and learn other tricks. Compared to the new generation Siglent and Rigol of which the later can run from an USB battery bank and is very lightweight. Four channels vs two similarly a matter of a very slight price difference, so it might be stupid to forgo the extra channels for the day, where you are stuck needing them.

The €300 options you found just don't have a very good reputation here, as you might have discovered.

Plenty of people swear that the old analogs are the best, and the old computers were build with those. Personally I am all digital, but in my opinion if you won't afford the €400 options, you might as well go all in on getting the job done with the old tech.

[scroeffie]

what about this scope good or not     https://www.eleshop.nl/rohde-schwarz-rtb2004-oscilloscoop.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVIkTxkxw-RRv1b-6FZMK4SPThHQuZIQDMGKAdpAg6m9gnVzIk4lLdxoCP54QAvD_BwE

[BillyO]

what about this scope good or not     https://www.eleshop.nl/rohde-schwarz-rtb2004-oscilloscoop.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVIkTxkxw-RRv1b-6FZMK4SPThHQuZIQDMGKAdpAg6m9gnVzIk4lLdxoCP54QAvD_BwE

It might just do the job 

[tggzzz]

OP: please note that pcprogrammer's and baldurn's last posts contain a lot of wisdom It is worth understanding why they make those points.

Be cautious of those claiming newer==better. Frequently older is sufficient

Be very aware that the type of tests you do for repair are very different to those when developing something.

[pcprogrammer]

what about this scope good or not     https://www.eleshop.nl/rohde-schwarz-rtb2004-oscilloscoop.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVIkTxkxw-RRv1b-6FZMK4SPThHQuZIQDMGKAdpAg6m9gnVzIk4lLdxoCP54QAvD_BwE

   That is a large jump in budget. 

Definitely a good scope with lots of possibilities, but overkill for what you stated to be doing with a scope. Only when you become a developer and start to make more challenging designs you would need a scope like that.

Like tggzzz wrote, we don't give our advice just for the fun of it.

[tggzzz]

Like tggzzz wrote, we don't give our advice just for the fun of it.

Nor for any financial gain

I like watching people's understanding grow: grokking is good

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

I really like old analog scopes. I still have two left of many I have repaired and sold.     
But I bought a used Agilent 54820 Digital scope and learned how to use it. This is an older scope and probably with not the same quality of features as the new ones. works just fine.     
The features on digital scopes are not found on almost ALL  analog scopes. There are a few old scopes with some features like rise time, but these are rare and exotic scopes that are very difficult to fix when something goes wrong.   
If you think you need things like Fourier transform to look at the spectrum and rise time measurements, your only reasonable choice is digital.   

It is nice to be able to push the "Auto Scale" button on digital scopes and get a trace. Analog scopes do not have this.  I have an old analog/digital scope that does this, a HP 1980 but you do not want this thing, besides it was $ 20K new.   
In MY opinion, the digital scopes are not any harder to use than the old analog ones. just look at all the buttons and switches on an old analog Tek 465. I just dragged one out and it took me an hour to remember what all the switches do
Modern scopes are menu controlled, with less buttons and knobs.  People who are used to buttons and knobs find that troublesome.  However that is probably an age thing, most people today are used to menu controlled devices

On the other hand if you can purchase a GOOD used 100 MHz analog scope cheaply, and if you use it, you will learn what you need and what you want.  If you can get a scope for maybe $100 or less, that is a reasonable option. You can probably sell it later and recoup most of your expense.  Think of it as a learning experience.   
I THINK analog scopes are easier to use at low (audio) frequencies, but maybe the newer scopes are better.   
Some folks keep an analog scope just because of this.

[5U4GB]

If you think you need things like Fourier transform to look at the spectrum and rise time measurements, your only reasonable choice is digital.

It's not only the fancy stuff, it's simpler maths too.  While I normally dislike soft-controls, with a digital scope it's really easy to perform operations on waveforms where, for an analog scope, you have to figure out exactly which combination of a faceplate full of controls you need to use to get the effect you want, including things like adding the inverse in lieu of subtracting and other bits of lateral thinking.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

About HV on CRT   
I knew some TV tecks, none of them used their scopes on the HV lines at all. Ever.   They just tested the TV CRT with a tester.    Maybe use a HV voltmeter on the HV lines.   
Back then a TV repair grade scope cost as much as a New Automobile. They did use scopes on 100+ volt lines but never on the thousand + volt lines.