Author Topic: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?  (Read 2406 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« on: May 23, 2024, 11:24:22 am »
Hey all,
I'm looking at the datasheet for the ISP_BLE_5S1057 (https://www.insightsip.com/fichiers_insightsip/pdf/ble/ISP1507/isp_ble_DS1507.pdf), specifically the AX variant, and when looking at the example they provide I am completely dumfounded by all the extra stuff they have on the schematic. I'm very new to the whole world of PCB design, so if someone could help I would greatly appreciate it!
I've attached a screenshot of what I mean.
Thank you everyone!
Max :)
 

Offline CaptDon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1886
  • Country: is
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2024, 01:28:32 pm »
If you don't know why all of that extra support 'stuff' is required (like power supply decoupling, master crystal clock oscillator, power pins, GPIO) then why are you even looking at such a complex I.C.??? If you feel you have a need to design that I.C. into your project you would already have a firm grip on the ancillary support required for that I.C. to operate. You need some kind of beginner level FPGA/CPLD/MCU/DSP book. Why would you be tasked to design a PCB around an I.C. you don't understand? The exact layout of the power traces and placement of the decoupling capacitors is both an art and science in itself which you will also need to understand and that pertains to the simplest of the logic families to get stable results.
Collector and repairer of vintage and not so vintage electronic gadgets and test equipment. What's the difference between a pizza and a musician? A pizza can feed a family of four!! Classically trained guitarist. Sound engineer.
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2024, 01:31:55 pm »
Hey CaptDon,
Thank you for your response! I'm using this IC because I'm working under the assumption that it is the best and easiest way to achieve what I want to achieve, which is long range communication between two small wearables. The Bluetooth would talk to the users' phones, which would connect to a server. To be honest I'm way over my head here but I've been told this is the easiest way. I know this is a very large project for someone of my skill level, but I appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Max   :D
 

Offline tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7574
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX product design
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 01:48:38 pm »
Use a module with built in antenna that works out of the box. With this much knowledge you will run into a ton of headaches trying to make a wireless system work. I mean you need thousands of EUR worth of test equipment just to make the antenna semi-decent.
 
The following users thanked this post: Max Holdcroft

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2024, 01:50:36 pm »
Hey Tszaboo,
Thank you. I really appreciate the help. Could you point me in the right direction for finding an IC with a built in antenna? I was looking at the Laird BL652 but the lead time is 52 weeks and the dev board costs $150. |O
Thanks!
Max
 

Offline xvr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 371
  • Country: ie
    • LinkedIn
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2024, 01:52:56 pm »
when looking at the example they provide
This is not an example - this is schematic of module itself. See table on next page for real pins, exposed by module. Also see beacon schematic on page 18 - this is real example of module usage.

Quote
If you feel you have a need to design that I.C. into your project
This is not an IC, this is module, based on Nordic MCU. Schematic in datasheet has a little misleading title :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Max Holdcroft

Offline xvr

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 371
  • Country: ie
    • LinkedIn
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2024, 01:53:46 pm »
Could you point me in the right direction for finding an IC with a built in antenna?
This module has built-in antenna
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2024, 01:54:48 pm »
when looking at the example they provide
This is not an example - this is schematic of module itself. See table on next page for real pins, exposed by module. Also see beacon schematic on page 18 - this is real example of module usage.

Quote
If you feel you have a need to design that I.C. into your project
This is not an IC, this is module, based on Nordic MCU. Schematic in datasheet has a little misleading title :)
Dude thank you so much I've been banging my head against a wall for like 2 hours trying to figure out why the schematic I'm using doesn't match that diagram.  :palm:
Thank you,
Max
 

Offline tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7574
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX product design
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2024, 07:52:02 am »
Could you point me in the right direction for finding an IC with a built in antenna?
This module has built-in antenna
Right. IDK why they didn't put the antenna on the schematic, it's confusing.
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3549
  • Country: nl
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2024, 01:44:13 pm »
I'm using this IC because I'm working under the assumption that it is the best and easiest way to achieve what I want to achieve,

That's a variant of the Dunning-Kruger effect, also similar to "ignorance is bliss".
 

Offline coromonadalix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6215
  • Country: ca
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2024, 05:30:35 am »
 :-DD

And YOU posted there too     https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/can-someone-explain-what-all-this-stuff-is.201017/

YOU already have 2 pages of thread there, stay there and stop wasting our time


geez
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 05:35:19 am by coromonadalix »
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2024, 05:39:14 am »
:-DD

And YOU posted there too     https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/can-someone-explain-what-all-this-stuff-is.201017/

YOU already have 2 pages of thread there, stay there and stop wasting our time


geez
First of all, I don't know why you're being such a dick. If you didn't want to respond then don't; I'm not forcing you and I'm not wasting anyone's time. Second of all, yes I posted on multiple forums, is there anything wrong with that? I don't get why you care so much. Third of all, I literally posted this in the beginners tab of this forum, so I'm not sure why you're getting so hung up on this. Just leave if you're not gonna help.
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2024, 05:41:16 am »
I'm using this IC because I'm working under the assumption that it is the best and easiest way to achieve what I want to achieve,

That's a variant of the Dunning-Kruger effect, also similar to "ignorance is bliss".
Again, instead of just insulting a beginner who posts in the "beginner" tab, maybe actually help or provide a useful answer. Why you would take the time out of your day to randomly hate on someone trying to learn something new is beyond me. I just asked a simple question. Maybe actually provide me with solutions or alternatives, or be a productive or helpful member of these forums at ALL instead of just pointing fun at beginners.
 

Offline ArdWar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 529
  • Country: sc
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2024, 06:34:16 am »
Dude, just buy some "plug-and-play" wireless development board first and play with them. NRF52-based modules are indeed a good choice for ARM+BLE solution. Others to consider here is maybe some LoRa-based and TI CC-based radios. Familiarize yourself with their performance, requirements and limitations before you set yourself into a project with a lot of constraints.

Direct point to point long range wireless communication is not something trivial. 40 Km is not something trivial. It will either require low frequency (huge antenna) or high power (not battery friendly) or some complicated modulation.
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2024, 08:03:43 am »
Dude, just buy some "plug-and-play" wireless development board

The problem is just the size constraints.

Direct point to point long range wireless communication is not something trivial. 40 Km is not something trivial. It will either require low frequency (huge antenna) or high power (not battery friendly) or some complicated modulation.

I'm not making the bluetooth reach 40km. I'm using the bluetooth to connect to the phones of the users and then using the phones to reach 40km over a server.
 

Offline newbrain

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1740
  • Country: se
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2024, 08:07:53 am »
To the OP:
As you say you don't have a lot of experience with PCB design, are you sure you can solder that module?
I would think a reflow oven is needed, maybe someone skilled with a hot air gun can make it.

If you intend to have the board assembled by one of the PCB factories that provide the service, check their capabilities.
Note that the requirements for pad size and vias are quite strict, e.g. JLCPCB does not support that via size and finish.

As for some "helpful" answers you got - well, there this thing called "ignore list" on your profile...
Nandemo wa shiranai wa yo, shitteru koto dake.
 

Offline ArdWar

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 529
  • Country: sc
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2024, 08:22:50 am »
The problem is just the size constraints.
Don't be too preoccupied with downsizing right away. The whole point of devboards are to develop the prototype product first. Their large size is not a constraint here, it make things easier to fiddle around with. Jumpers instead of solders, USB connection instead of serial programmer, power supplies instead of batteries, etc. More importantly it gives you starting point where you at least know things are working, instead of trying to troubleshoot which one of your design decision is not working. It also allows you to figure out what idea works (or not), how things work,  what performance/feature/constraint are there, and ultimately figuring out if the solution is right or not for the job.

Only after you able to make your idea works with the devboards then you can move to the next step of downsizing it. Don't jump right into designing the end product especially since you appears to be 1) not familiar with hardware development; 2) not familiar with firmware development; and 3) not familiar with how exactly you want your device to work yet.

The problem is just the size constraints.
I'm not making the bluetooth reach 40km. I'm using the bluetooth to connect to the phones of the users and then using the phones to reach 40km over a server.

That makes a lot of sense then. A phone companion? Or is it NB-IOT? (is it even still a thing?)

Add:
By the way, ISP1507, neat MCM. nRF52 with most of requisite close coupled components in one package. But do you really want to use QFN package with hidden pad? Not exactly beginner friendly, unless you plan to assemble it in a production house.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 08:36:48 am by ArdWar »
 
The following users thanked this post: abeyer

Offline coromonadalix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6215
  • Country: ca
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2024, 11:11:59 am »
he's been warned on his other threads  not just me @NewBrain

as for helpful answers :  an respectful  OP should write that he as asked the same thing elsewhere ....   

witch  make many people "work for him" and they where lots of details in them  ....

 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2024, 11:22:47 am »
he's been warned on his other threads  not just me @NewBrain

as for helpful answers :  an respectful  OP should write that he as asked the same thing elsewhere ....   

witch  make many people "work for him" and they where lots of details in them  ....

Actually, I wasn't warned in any other threads, and I would love to be able to read the rest of your message but I cannot understand what you're saying for the life of me/
 

Offline coromonadalix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6215
  • Country: ca
 

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2024, 11:29:43 am »
read

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/whats-with-these-inconsistent-pins/
THIS WAS LITERALLY AFTER THE ORIGINAL THREAD. Do you want me to go back in time to stop myself from posting or what?  :-DD
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3991
  • Country: nl
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2024, 11:35:24 am »
he's been warned on his other threads  not just me @NewBrain

True, but it does not look like Max is interested in the advice given. He wants someone to solve his problems with something he is clearly way out of his depth with. And seen that he claims in his profile to be just 16 years old, it is understandable that he has no experience nor full fledged knowledge on this kind of stuff.

Like newbrain I too told him in another thread that the module is something that needs experience and proper tools to solder it. I would not use it for any of my hobby projects and certainly not in a startup phase where I was working on making a new design. A development board would be a better choice, and then indeed research if a PCB manufacturer is able to solder it to the final board for me.

Hell, basic QFN with a buried ground pad is already a step to far for me due to the lack of the right tools for it, and aging problems for that matter.

He is somewhat lucky to be growing up in this time with all the information available on the internet. When I was young you had to go to a library to read books or magazines on the subject. But most likely non of us oldies jumped straight in to trying to develop something way beyond our knowledge and capabilities. We grew into things by learning from the ground up.

So again my advice to Max is to first learn the basics of electronics.

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3991
  • Country: nl
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2024, 11:39:42 am »
Actually, I wasn't warned in any other threads, and I would love to be able to read the rest of your message but I cannot understand what you're saying for the life of me/

Well you where in this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/ by both ataradov and me.

Offline Max HoldcroftTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2024, 12:27:18 pm »
Actually, I wasn't warned in any other threads, and I would love to be able to read the rest of your message but I cannot understand what you're saying for the life of me/

Well you where in this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/ by both ataradov and me.
I mean I would encourage you to point you to the message where you warned me as I can't seem to find it.
 

Offline Terry Bites

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2466
  • Country: gb
  • Recovering Electrical Engineer
Re: Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2024, 02:15:37 pm »
And using such a vile colour scheme.
I have to look away.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf