Can you recommend a Oscilloscope for less than 450usd?

[patchie]

Hi,


We just started a electronics club.


We need a oscilloscope, and need your help to recommend a good oscilloscope for less than 450usd.


The ones we have had a look at:

- Rigol DS1052E (300usd incl shipment + 25% tax) - Dave explained in a video how to hack/upgrade this one, but the screen is quite small..
- Rigol DS1054Z (430usd incl shipment + 25% tax) - We have been told that this one also can be upgraded to 100mhz, but is it worth to go over budget?
- Siglent SDS1202X-E (440usd incl shipment + 25% tax) - 200mhz, but only 2 channels.


Questions:
- Is there some other Siglent scopes that is hackable/upgradable?
- Any other provider that is upgradable and cheap?
- Is it possible to get any discounts for clubs/makerspace like this?


Please recommend a scope for us..


Thanks in advance.

[lordvader88]

4 channels must be great, I'll soon find out myself.

What about used scopes tho ? You can easily get 2-3 or 4 used analog scopes for that money.  Lots of used 25MHz scopes. I have Tek2215 60MHz, it's great. It only cost about $100 or 125 shipped to Canada.

[Pirateguy]

i just got me one of these:
https://www.banggood.com/nl/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN

cheap chinese brand, but it gets good reviews and is very popular among hobbyists
and can be firmware hacked to 200mhz.

maybe worth wile to look into these cheaper brands...

[tautech]

Questions:
- Is there some other Siglent scopes that is hackable/upgradable?

Yes but you have to spend more than you're planning to......SDS1104X-E, better featured than SDS1202X-E and with 4 channels.

The other only option is a SDS1000CFL but they have limited memory depth and don't have many of the other features the X-E models have, see here: https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000cfl-series-digital-storage-oscilloscopes/

[Wolfgang]

Hi,

I could recommend the Rigol DS1054Z. All options are free now, and the web has some tips how it could be made a 100MHz scope.
This stuff has been on the market long enough to be fairly bug free, its robust and reliable.
Bad experience has told me to stay away from very recent stuff. Let others iron out all the early bugs.

[rstofer]

Hi,

I could recommend the Rigol DS1054Z. All options are free now, and the web has some tips how it could be made a 100MHz scope.
This stuff has been on the market long enough to be fairly bug free, its robust and reliable.
Bad experience has told me to stay away from very recent stuff. Let others iron out all the early bugs.

All correct!  Being on the 'bleeding edge' isn't always the best answer.  It took a couple of years to get the DS1054Z sorted out and it still has a very slow response to knob changes.

Bandwidth is everything!  Except channels...  It is really nice to have 4 channels and getting up to 100 MHz with the DS1054Z is really easy and well understood.

I have the DS1054Z and have unlocked the features - it works well!

My next scope will probably be the Siglent SDS1204X-E for 4 channels and 200 MHz.  There's no real hurry because I have an old Tek 485 with 2 channels and 350 MHz bandwidth.

The Siglent SDS1102X-E is only 2 channels but it seems like quite a nice scope with 100 MHz bandwidth.  Still, I want 4 channels (for decoding SPI among other things) and more bandwidth is always better than less bandwidth.

[Wolfgang]

If you often do digital stuff I can only recommend an MSO.
In case you just have analog channels and a protocol like SPI or I2C the remaining analog channels could be too few to be practical.
I also have a RIGOL MSO1104ZS, this has also 2 function generators in it, plus digital channels. I like this one too, but its probably out of your price frame.

[metrologist]

You folks are getting robed in Norway, $430 +25% tax? I think it's still the best option if you are willing to enter a pirated key to unlock all features and 100MHz BW.

[tautech]

The Siglent SDS1102X-E is only 2 channels but it seems like quite a nice scope with 100 MHz bandwidth.  Still, I want 4 channels (for decoding SPI among other things) and more bandwidth is always better than less bandwidth.

Ah hum.
There is no SDS1102X-E available to western markets, only the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.
OTOH in China, 70, 100 and 200 MHz models are available in both 2 and 4 ch X-E models.

[rstofer]

The Siglent SDS1102X-E is only 2 channels but it seems like quite a nice scope with 100 MHz bandwidth.  Still, I want 4 channels (for decoding SPI among other things) and more bandwidth is always better than less bandwidth.

Ah hum.
There is no SDS1102X-E available to western markets, only the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.
OTOH in China, 70, 100 and 200 MHz models are available in both 2 and 4 ch X-E models.

My bad!  Even the SDS1104X-E is over the budget.  Bummer...

I am still thinking about that SDS1204X-E for my next iteration.  This time I think I'll skip the hack and just pay the street price, part of which is covering the better probes.

But that's way above the budget here...

[tautech]

The Siglent SDS1102X-E is only 2 channels but it seems like quite a nice scope with 100 MHz bandwidth.  Still, I want 4 channels (for decoding SPI among other things) and more bandwidth is always better than less bandwidth.

Ah hum.
There is no SDS1102X-E available to western markets, only the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.
OTOH in China, 70, 100 and 200 MHz models are available in both 2 and 4 ch X-E models.

My bad!  Even the SDS1104X-E is over the budget.  Bummer...

I am still thinking about that SDS1204X-E for my next iteration.  This time I think I'll skip the hack and just pay the street price, part of which is covering the better probes.

Better, in that they're a better match to ensure accurate signal fidelity to 200 MHz BW but the 100 MHz probes still remain within specified system accuracy to 200 MHz
If you study Performa01's frequency sweep charts you'll see this is so.
Otherwise there is no physical difference between the 100 and 200 MHz probes.

No issue on your incorrect assumption on model #, just making sure readers are on the right page. 

[patchie]

i just got me one of these:
https://www.banggood.com/nl/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Channels-100MHz-1GSas-p-1013032.html?rmmds=cart_middle_products&cur_warehouse=CN

cheap chinese brand, but it gets good reviews and is very popular among hobbyists
and can be firmware hacked to 200mhz.

maybe worth wile to look into these cheaper brands...

I will check them out, thanks.

Yes but you have to spend more than you're planning to......SDS1104X-E, better featured than SDS1202X-E and with 4 channels.

The other only option is a SDS1000CFL but they have limited memory depth and don't have many of the other features the X-E models have, see here: https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000cfl-series-digital-storage-oscilloscopes/

I am not quite sure if i need 4 channels?

Hi,

I could recommend the Rigol DS1054Z. All options are free now, and the web has some tips how it could be made a 100MHz scope.
This stuff has been on the market long enough to be fairly bug free, its robust and reliable.
Bad experience has told me to stay away from very recent stuff. Let others iron out all the early bugs.

Yep, it seems to be the best option after upgrading it to 100MHz.

If you often do digital stuff I can only recommend an MSO.
In case you just have analog channels and a protocol like SPI or I2C the remaining analog channels could be too few to be practical.
I also have a RIGOL MSO1104ZS, this has also 2 function generators in it, plus digital channels. I like this one too, but its probably out of your price frame.

But that is over 2x our budget. And, shouldnt i just get a Logic Analyzer from ebay for 5$ or so?

You folks are getting robed in Norway, $430 +25% tax? I think it's still the best option if you are willing to enter a pirated key to unlock all features and 100MHz BW.

Hehe, 25% tax isnt that much compared to our car taxes. If your car has some horsepowers, you can easily pay more tax than to the manufacturer.

Quote from: rstofer on Yesterday at 23:30:25

The Siglent SDS1102X-E is only 2 channels but it seems like quite a nice scope with 100 MHz bandwidth.  Still, I want 4 channels (for decoding SPI among other things) and more bandwidth is always better than less bandwidth.

Ah hum.
There is no SDS1102X-E available to western markets, only the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.
OTOH in China, 70, 100 and 200 MHz models are available in both 2 and 4 ch X-E models.

Probably, we could get a cheap 70MHz SDS1072X-E and upgrade it to 200MHz SDS1202X-E then?




Would you guys rather go for 2 channels with 200MHz, or 4 channels with 100MHz?
I have also created a excel sheet with prices and some data to compare, should i take more manufacturers into account?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mmVgKqwd2C-E1U170yWqNSRL05Y0Yud79c1DUEPkdao/edit?usp=sharing

[Mechatrommer]

Would you guys rather go for 2 channels with 200MHz, or 4 channels with 100MHz?

if me. i'll pick 4ch 100MHz, why? because both of them are no magic 1GSps, nyquist limit is 1000MHz / 2.5 = 400MHz. you can still see 400MHz signal on 4ch dso (only 1ch activated) even though a little bit more attenuated compared to 200MHz DSO, but when you need more than 2ch to view, then the 2ch scope is totally crippled, there is no work around it. but that is just me, the money is not mine.

[rstofer]

Would you guys rather go for 2 channels with 200MHz, or 4 channels with 100MHz?
I have also created a excel sheet with prices and some data to compare, should i take more manufacturers into account?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mmVgKqwd2C-E1U170yWqNSRL05Y0Yud79c1DUEPkdao/edit?usp=sharing

As I see the spreadsheet, it is completely useless when the budget is $450 and the majority of scopes are multiples of thousands.

There are very few credible scopes in the under $450 range and, technically, the Siglent SDS1104X-E isn't quite in range. So, that leaves one that I know of - the DS1054Z.  There may be some USB scopes but I haven't looked for them.

Four channels is really useful in a number of ways but I bought it for decoding SPI where I wanted to see all 4 signals.  I have had code problems where I lifted CS' before the last byte had cleared the shift register.  My fault but it's easier to find with a 4 channel scope.  I can also see the relationship with outgoing and incoming data and how the signals line up with the clock.

It's a choice...

[Crazy_Pete]

>Can you recommend a good scope for under $500?

Just one:  Siglent SDS1104X-E

$499 delivered in the USA on amazon prime today.

I am just breaking into this as a hobby so i have been all over scope research lately.    That siglent looks really good.   I think (sorry if i got this wrong) Dave even upped this over the Rigol 1054Z.  Of course that Rigol is available for $375USD on Amazon today.     The 4 channel siglent has some cool options .

thanks
peter

[Crazy_Pete]

As long as we are on the subject, i was very impressed watching Dave's Demo of the 14 Bit Owon Scope and i have sort of set my heart on a 12 bit scope.    Interestingly one of Dave's criticisms of the scope was "You can push it over just pushing the buttons".   I was interested to see the Company demo of the scope in which the demonstrator laid the scope FLAT ON IT'S BACK and operated it that way.   I am wondering if anyone has any comments on these 12-14 bit Owon scopes?   I am interested in an Oscope <= 1000USD and these owons look pretty interesting.   The user interface software is crappy but i think it is an LXI scope so you can control it from a PC.   How about recommendations on a good beginner scope for <= 1000USD

thanks
crazy pete

[Crazy_Pete]

I am sorry.    This oscope question gets asked over and over again.  (And i have read  the forums and watched Dave's great video on the Rigol Zed.)   But each year the game changes, the scopes are better.  Somebody gets money they didn't expect and the price changes.    I guess i should create a new topic (seriously)  "Whats NEW in oscope recommendations?"

I do want to specifically say to Patchie regarding that Excel Spreadsheet:   maanga takk....  TUSEN TAKK!      (Many thanks....  A THOUSAND THANKS for those of you who don't speak ORIGINAL English. <snikker> )   Speaking of which that spreadsheet is a real nice beginning to a scope database for this sort of question.  Thanks again Patchie!


Best Wishes to All
Crazy Pete

[tautech]

There's a more comprehensive one here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-oscilloscope-comparison-chart/

[Crazy_Pete]

Wow, Thank you TOO Tautech and especially YOU FanOfeeDIY!  (Great nick too.)   That is really some great information!   To put my money where my mouth is, i just made a small donation to Fran Blanche's go fund me as a way to thank you TauTech,  Patchie, FanOfeeDIY and the rest of you (u 2 Dave :-) for all your help.  I want to purchase a scope this year and your information is very helpful.

thanks
peter

[Orlando]

Well I have worked with a GDS-1072B GW Instek  , and it is pretty good, but it all also depends on the use you are going to give them, and as some have suggested you should also consider buying a used one.

[Crazy_Pete]

Pauli Effect, no used electronics for me.   :-)

Thanks
Peter

[patchie]

if me. i'll pick 4ch 100MHz, why? because both of them are no magic 1GSps, nyquist limit is 1000MHz / 2.5 = 400MHz. you can still see 400MHz signal on 4ch dso (only 1ch activated) even though a little bit more attenuated compared to 200MHz DSO, but when you need more than 2ch to view, then the 2ch scope is totally crippled, there is no work around it. but that is just me, the money is not mine.

Are you telling me that its common for all manufacturers to have a function where you can use only 1 channel and get 400mhz on the one channel if the scope actually is 100mhz*4 channels?
I didnt know that.

As I see the spreadsheet, it is completely useless when the budget is $450 and the majority of scopes are multiples of thousands.

There are very few credible scopes in the under $450 range and, technically, the Siglent SDS1104X-E isn't quite in range. So, that leaves one that I know of - the DS1054Z.  There may be some USB scopes but I haven't looked for them.

Four channels is really useful in a number of ways but I bought it for decoding SPI where I wanted to see all 4 signals.  I have had code problems where I lifted CS' before the last byte had cleared the shift register.  My fault but it's easier to find with a 4 channel scope.  I can also see the relationship with outgoing and incoming data and how the signals line up with the clock.

It's a choice...

There is 24 scopes under $450.. The others is for comparing.
The only scope with 4 channels under $450 is the Rigol DS1054Z as you mention.
And this one can be upgraded/hacked to get more MHz.

>Can you recommend a good scope for under $500?

Just one:  Siglent SDS1104X-E

$499 delivered in the USA on amazon prime today.

I am just breaking into this as a hobby so i have been all over scope research lately.    That siglent looks really good.   I think (sorry if i got this wrong) Dave even upped this over the Rigol 1054Z.  Of course that Rigol is available for $375USD on Amazon today.     The 4 channel siglent has some cool options .

thanks
peter

Do you have any recollection of where Dave has upped the Siglent SDS1104X-E over the Rigol DS1054Z?
That would be interresting.

As long as we are on the subject, i was very impressed watching Dave's Demo of the 14 Bit Owon Scope and i have sort of set my heart on a 12 bit scope.    Interestingly one of Dave's criticisms of the scope was "You can push it over just pushing the buttons".   I was interested to see the Company demo of the scope in which the demonstrator laid the scope FLAT ON IT'S BACK and operated it that way.   I am wondering if anyone has any comments on these 12-14 bit Owon scopes?   I am interested in an Oscope <= 1000USD and these owons look pretty interesting.   The user interface software is crappy but i think it is an LXI scope so you can control it from a PC.   How about recommendations on a good beginner scope for <= 1000USD

thanks
crazy pete

What is the modelname of the Owon you are talking about?

I am sorry.    This oscope question gets asked over and over again.  (And i have read  the forums and watched Dave's great video on the Rigol Zed.)   But each year the game changes, the scopes are better.  Somebody gets money they didn't expect and the price changes.    I guess i should create a new topic (seriously)  "Whats NEW in oscope recommendations?"

I do want to specifically say to Patchie regarding that Excel Spreadsheet:   maanga takk....  TUSEN TAKK!      (Many thanks....  A THOUSAND THANKS for those of you who don't speak ORIGINAL English. <snikker> )   Speaking of which that spreadsheet is a real nice beginning to a scope database for this sort of question.  Thanks again Patchie!

Best Wishes to All
Crazy Pete

No problem

There's a more comprehensive one here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-oscilloscope-comparison-chart/

Thanks! I will have a look.

[rstofer]

Are you telling me that its common for all manufacturers to have a function where you can use only 1 channel and get 400mhz on the one channel if the scope actually is 100mhz*4 channels?
I didnt know that.

The sample rate may go quite high (more than just 2.5 x bandwidth) but it doesn't change the bandwidth of the analog front end.  It may very well be that the 100 MHz scope can actually display 300 MHz but it will be severely attenuated.

Keep track of that 2.5 number.  It comes up quite a bit in DSOs. 

(Nominal Bandwidth) * (Number of Channels) * 2.5 = (Total Sample Rate)
100 MHz * 4 Channels * 2.5 = 1 GHz Sample Rate

[Crazy_Pete]

Thanks Again Patchie! :-)

The model # of the Owon i am considering is XDS3104AE.  It is $659 on Amazon in the USA.   EVERY review i have seen says you can push it over, it has no vertical stability.   The chinese demo video shows them operating it on its BACK and if you look, there are rubber feet on the back so the scope can be operated vertically or horizontally.   However from what everyone says, to operate it vertically you need to shore up the back.  I want to say AFAIK only XDS***AE  models have the 8-14 bit resolution.    I wonder what internal OS they are using?   Since it is made in China i can only hope for Linux ;-)


Best Wishes,
Crazy Pete

[glue_ru]

Hantek DSO05102P, $50 on ebay right now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hantek-DSO5102P-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2CH-100MHz-Bandwidth-1GSa-s-N77E/192735649661?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649