Career Switch

[brainwash]

It's just another opinion but I guess some things in life bring the money and other things bring the pleasure.

Just hypothetically, if you suck at your current job and you suck at EE even though you like EE I would guess a career change is not necessarily a good thing. In order to earn good money and also do what you like you have to be really passionate: that passion translates into hours of tinkering and reading, which still counts as education, but that time is spent with pleasure. If you are good in your job then you can make demands, you can work on the R&D team instead of being assigned to all the obsolete projects and designing cases for piezos.

Case in point: I have started programming since I was 7 or 9 years old and kept at it until now, so that's more than 20 years of doing just ONE thing. In my youth I averaged about 16h per day in front of the computer out of which very little was gaming and internet was still unheard of. So that's a few thousand hours of doing just that.
I choosed EE as a college instead of IT since I always liked watching my father tinkering with this stuff. This means I have a degree in EE, sort of, specifically measurement equipment. But I wouldn't hire myself for this job. Even embedded programming which should be just on my alley is a bit out of reach, for getting good money I mean. I quit my job for a few months or maybe a year to pursue some hobbies and I know I can get back into the field whenever I get bored of this or short on money.

So what I'm saying is to strive in your current job to be the best you can so that you can get even more satisfaction in your hobbies and more money to spend on them. You don't need to quit your job to do that, just rearrange priorities.
Procrastination kills the dreams.

[KJDS]

In 25 years of professional engineering, almost exclusively RF, I've occasionally had to do some real maths, but it's been rare. What is important is that you are confident of being able to deal with it on the rare occasions that the need arises.

[Architect_1077]

Ironically, I spend half my day sometimes looking at building schematics thinking like an architect so I can work out where I'm placing and running services

I'm sure the thought process is somewhat familiar, the difference being the subject(s) of the designs (buildings vs electronics).

Just hypothetically, if you suck at your current job and you suck at EE even though you like EE I would guess a career change is not necessarily a good thing.

The issue isn't so much sucking at my job... the issues imho are that:
1. there is a nasty lack of work. Although I'm American born, I've lived an important part of my life in Portugal. I grew up here, I studied here and I live here. Now, I'm sure most people know the drama this country (and a few others) are going through right now. Construction related jobs have nearly vanished. So getting a job in Arch is nearly impossible here.
2. Even though I've never been too passionate about this job I actually only started to lose my initial interest in it only after I started working in the field. I lost interest over time as I hit a variety of difficulties which somewhat opened my eyes to the fact that maybe I just don't really like this line of work all that much. That fact that I'm currently unemployed is only making it worse.

You don't need to quit your job to do that, just rearrange priorities.

That's just it... I'm currently unemployed! Unemployment in Portugal isn't going to improve in the next few years (maybe more??) I'm considering moving to the U.S. as I have some family there to help me... Even though I could try working in my field in the U.S. I'm not sure if it's worth the considerable cost and bureaucracy that's involved in obtaining reciprocity. Hence why I'm considering a career change. Even so I am keeping my options open.

As you can see, it isn't just a career change... it's a major change in life!

[brainwash]

Sorry, I misread between the lines that you were actually getting bored with your current job and not able to reach your full potential.
If it's crisis mode then it's a completely different deal. I think you can (and should) try it now that you have time, there are a lot of online video courses from universities as well as interactive ones, completely free. They will fill in a lot of gaps that are required to land an EE job.

On a different note, I know a friend who has some colleagues at work that are electrical engineers and have tried MULTIPLE times to measure the amperage of a 220V socket. They are doing low and mid line voltage installation stuff like crane controls, security cameras, voltage regulators, not bricks&mortar.
But then again, the job markets are completely different even in countries that are next to each other.

[Architect_1077]

Sorry

No harm done, mate. I just wanted to clarify my situation as I didn't really elaborate too much.

[ddavidebor]

If you can, run to the usa!

I'm in italy, we're in the same ship (shit).

[IanB]

Even though I could try working in my field in the U.S. I'm not sure if it's worth the considerable cost and bureaucracy that's involved in obtaining reciprocity.

I can't speak specifically for architecture, but the extent of the difficulty here may depend on what kind of employment you seek. If you wish to practice in your own right, then you would need to satisfy the state licensing requirements. However, if you have a job working for an employer who can satisfy the licensing requirements corporately, you may not need to be licensed yourself. You would come under your employer's umbrella. So it may still be worth looking into.

[Anquietas]

There is a lot of talk in this thread about whether you should or should not start getting into electrical engineering (of any kind).

I find this besides the point to be frank, assuming that you are actually interested in EE. And I am speaking from the perspective of a person entirely unfamiliar with the EE subculture. If you are interested in EE, you definitely SHOULD get into it irrespective of possible job prospects in this field. Happiness through monetary means isn't particularly desirable, if it's attainable at all, and following up on your passions is always time well spent. It makes you a more interesting and useful person, which are attributes I personally value far beyond happiness. (More often than not, following up on your passions also leads to financial stability.) The Internet delivers to you the unique opportunity now to study what you have always wanted to study, no questions asked. Given that you are unemployed, it's not even like you wouldn't have the time to get into it.

And the mathematics / physics required for practical technician-level EE even at an advanced level don't go beyond second year undergraduate maths / physics, and this is within everyone's reach with some amount of effort. It's not like you wouldn't be doing that in high-school already anyway, just in a more concrete setting. I am fairly confident you can learn whatever mathematics you need to get a job done or a proper mathematical model set up in your mind for the task at hand.

You rarely if ever have to go beyond the package level of abstraction. That is, you do not need to know the specifics of a component's behavior's physical origin for the vast majority of applications. This would be an inefficient way to work, anyway, since you'd get caught up in details that are rendered irrelevant by the physical properties of your system (unless they are not, which is when things get interesting).

True mastery comes, I think, if you can freely switch between different levels of abstraction and go from the very concrete to the very abstract and back with no effort.

I suppose, the bottom line is, if you want it, do it, if you aren't sure, it's not for you.

(This is a simplification, of course, because stuff like this is never a cakewalk, but obstacles should never make a man throw away his passions.)

[Architect_1077]

Given that you are unemployed, it's not even like you wouldn't have the time to get into it.

I've already been getting into it, for around a year. Just that it's been a bit on/off, more as hobby, self-taught. Yet, in spite of this, the more I dig into electronics the more I like it.

[David_AVD]

Most areas of electronic don't require you to know heavy maths or even how things work at a really low level.

For example, some people like to know exactly why a transistor behaves like it does.  As long as I understand how to use something, I don't care exactly how it works at a molecular level.

ICs are another example.  I don't give a rats how most of them work internally, just that they do what the data sheet says.

Use the component to do what you want and move on I reckon.  There's simply too many components / products in electronics to know intimate details on all of them.  IF you did spend the time to know, you'd never have any time to do actual work!

[brainwash]

That only works for basic digital projects. Get to high speed and you have to fsctor in pcb capacitance. Go to low voltages and you have to understand offset voltage. Get an adc and you have to understand inl and dnl. These are just a few examples but to get to a professional level you have to understand a lot of this stuff. There is no subsitute, except getting bit by all of these during the years and having to go back to the book anyway.

[David_AVD]

I agree that you will need an overall increase in electronics knowledge as you get to more exotic projects.  Knowing how a transistor works internally is not the same as reading specs and taking (published) pin specifications into account when designing.

It depends on what type of gear you're involved with.  Common sense and the ability to read data sheets and use Google will get you a long way these days.  High flying engineering will require years of experience and often those people will narrow their field somewhat.

There is plenty of room for people who design and repair everyday electronics.  A passion for learning and experimenting and some patience will see you do well in most areas.

[tylerl]

I've already been getting into it, for around a year. Just that it's been a bit on/off, more as hobby, self-taught. Yet, in spite of this, the more I dig into electronics the more I like it.

While I do programming and server admin work, I've managed to turn what I do into not just a job or a hobby, but now my own company. I left my job as a programmer 7 years ago, started doing contract work, got some hosting companies as clients, and it all turned into a pretty big deal largely because I really know what I'm doing. Sure I have a degree in this, but every important skill was self-taught.

My core industry is CS rather than EE, but the same career principles apply. I'm not going to hire someone who's just trying to break in to the field (and there are lots) unless they've done some wicked-cool stuff already on their own.

And there are plenty of opportunities to do cool stuff on your own in EE.

Think of Limor Fried (adafruit). She makes a living designing and selling kits for interesting projects: clocks, robots, prototyping tools, etc. With the credibility she's built, she could probably get a EE job at any company she wanted. I'm sure the Masters Degree in EECS from MIT helps, but lots of people have those; she also has a track record in designing, building, and selling successful products without needing management oversight.

So before you give up on architecture and go passing out EE résumés, you've got to build up some creditably. And doing so is pretty simple: find something that needs to exist, invent it, design it, and sell it. Rinse and repeat. You don't need to make a fortune, you just need to make an impression. 

If you don't want to build and sell it yourself, there are lots of places that will take care of the fabrication and sales logistics for you, seeedstudio for example. All you have to do is the hard part. You probably won't get rich, but you'll at least be a credible employment candidate. Or you may make enough on your own to stay that way.

Either way, you'll spend productive time doing what you enjoy, even if you ultimately decide to keep your current career path. And that's worth something.

[Architect_1077]

And doing so is pretty simple: find something that needs to exist, invent it, design it, and sell it. Rinse and repeat. You don't need to make a fortune, you just need to make an impression.

Pretty much what I've been thinking. And you're obviously right... it's not just about holding a degree, it's about what you accomplish.