Electronics > Beginners
Chip making process
ZeroResistance:
--- Quote ---Just tried X-raying a 10F200 and 10F322 - unfortunately the die wasn't visible through the leadframe, but estimating from where the bond pads were, I'd guess 2-3mm^2
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What kind of equipment did you use to xray that chip?
wraper:
--- Quote from: ZeroResistance on October 16, 2018, 04:00:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: srce on October 16, 2018, 01:57:39 pm ---You will get the dies from Europractice in a little tray like this:
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Whats the problem in soldering the die directly to a pcb? are the bond pads too small that they can't be soldered directly to the board, similar to a LGA package? And then pour epoxy on it similar to a COB package. Like many chinese items have.
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:palm: Not only they are too small, why do you think they are solderable in the first place? You can make die it solderable to the PCB but it's a special process.
ZeroResistance:
Ok, so lets say Microchip wants to release a new 10F chip and its a 2mm^2 area per chip.
The would obviously have to get it made in a foundry.
What kind of costs would be they be looking at.
For the masks, and for getting it made at the foundry. Would Microchip need to place an order for 1 million pcs of the chip?
How do these things work out, will the foundry charge by area of silicon, that would me 2 million mm^2 of area.
Packaging would be a seperate expense right?
mikeselectricstuff:
--- Quote from: ZeroResistance on October 16, 2018, 04:03:52 pm ---
--- Quote ---Just tried X-raying a 10F200 and 10F322 - unfortunately the die wasn't visible through the leadframe, but estimating from where the bond pads were, I'd guess 2-3mm^2
--- End quote ---
What kind of equipment did you use to xray that chip?
--- End quote ---
Faxitron MX20 - unfortunately only does 35kv so barely makes it through the leadframe
coppice:
--- Quote from: ZeroResistance on October 16, 2018, 04:10:07 pm ---Ok, so lets say Microchip wants to release a new 10F chip and its a 2mm^2 area per chip.
The would obviously have to get it made in a foundry.
What kind of costs would be they be looking at.
For the masks, and for getting it made at the foundry. Would Microchip need to place an order for 1 million pcs of the chip?
How do these things work out, will the foundry charge by area of silicon, that would me 2 million mm^2 of area.
Packaging would be a seperate expense right?
--- End quote ---
Someone like Microchip would not contract for a complete device. They might use an in house fab or they might use a foundry, but the production of the wafers will be one commercial step. They will contract for a specified number of wafers, based on the expected yield of good dies meeting their needs. Next they will send the wafers to an assembly and test place, as a second commercial step, separate from the wafer production. Again this may be an in house operation, or the work may be given to an assembly and test contractor. These two operations - assembly and test - usually go together. You need to test a wafer, to locate the good dies. Then you package the good dies. Finally you need to test again, to make sure the packaging went OK. Having the packaging step between two test steps usually leads to them being bundled into an activity at a single site. People like TSMC and UMC are famous as wafer foundries, but there is also a group of less widely known large contract assembly and test companies. The program for the tester will usually be provided and maintained by the chip designers - they are the ones who know what the chip should do, and what needs testing.
Many of the largest silicon companies have no fabs, assembly or test facilities of their own. They do, however, usually have extensive labs of their own. These can get really expensive for a startup, but trying to work without them can be a huge drag on productivity. Things like FIB (focused ion beam) machines don't come cheap, but can be a huge boon when trying to diagnose and work around silicon bugs.
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