Author Topic: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100  (Read 19714 times)

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Offline analogo

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2018, 06:57:04 pm »
Why is (for the TS100) a grounded PSU a better option than a floating PSU?

BTW, three prongs does not always mean grounded, some are three-pronged PSUs are floating.
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2018, 07:14:28 pm »
anyone  have any experience  with this power supply?: https://www.banggood.com/AC-100V-240V-DC-24V-4A-96W-Power-Supply-Charger-Converter-Adapter-p-970663.html?p=2@3021069489201207MV&cur_warehouse=CN

it's a 3 prong one but it's also very cheap

Can't say that i do.. But having watched hours and hours of Youtube vids from people like "bigclivedotcom" and "Voltlog" and not  to mention "DiodeGoneWild" i can tell you this.. stay away from cheap Chinese power supply.
i got this one from tme.eu and payed €24,20 plus €8 shipping ..And user "Rooster Cogburn" just told me to check continuity and see if the power supply was mains earth referenced.. conclusion it is not..!!  |O
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/gs90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

i can't imagine what you would be getting with the one that costs €6.
Besides "analogo" is 100% right as i'm starting to find out ..painfully so it will cost me €8 to ship everything back to TME.eu..

i'm going to have a closer look at something like this..
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/lrs-100-24/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/

i'm kind of pissed having spend all that €€ and not having what i want.. starting to regret all the hassle..Ahh well i am learning a lot..at least that's a good thing..Appreciate all the help guys and your patience can't be easy dealing with such a noob..
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 07:16:35 pm by TuxKey »
 

Offline analogo

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2018, 09:30:53 pm »
i got this one from tme.eu and payed €24,20 plus €8 shipping ..And user "Rooster Cogburn" just told me to check continuity and see if the power supply was mains earth referenced.. conclusion it is not..!!  |O
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/gs90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

The GS90 series is quite good (was, it is now discontinued) but it explicitly says in the datasheet "-V not connected to AC FG".

The new GS90 series comes in two versions: GST90 (floating) and GSM90 (-V connected to earth). Ask for a replacement maybe.

I still don't understand why non-floating PSU should be better...  :-//
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2018, 09:54:55 pm »
i got this one from tme.eu and payed €24,20 plus €8 shipping ..And user "Rooster Cogburn" just told me to check continuity and see if the power supply was mains earth referenced.. conclusion it is not..!!  |O
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/gs90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

The GS90 series is quite good (was, it is now discontinued) but it explicitly says in the datasheet "-V not connected to AC FG".

The new GS90 series comes in two versions: GST90 (floating) and GSM90 (-V connected to earth). Ask for a replacement maybe.

I still don't understand why non-floating PSU should be better...  :-//

Seriously i asked  tme.eu for help that i wanted a earthed power supply.. and they did not mention what you are saying..
Of course it makes 100% sense. And reading the "-V not connected to AC FG" i feel stupid but i did not know about that and what to look for you are the first person that's explaining this to me..!!  :-+

So it's clear this is the one i would need..
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/gsm90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

wanting to compare and understand i did found a second power supply : GS90A24-P1M
The one you pointed to states "Medical Applications" While this one does not mention anything.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/gs90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

and the data sheet doesn't mention anything about -V connect to earth or not.
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2018, 10:02:26 pm »
since i'm going to use a flexible silicone cable and a dc-power jack cable like "Rooster Cogburn" thid in this post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/25/

and not wanting to cut in to a brand new power supply , i would make an extension cable.
Would this power supply not be a better option ?? i'm not sure about all does screw terminals if that's a good idea..
Would love to hear what you guys think i should get..And if i get this one .. how would i terminate the  cables that go in to the power supply ??Or should i just stick with the desktop models ???

https://www.tme.eu/en/details/lrs-100-24/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2018, 10:12:40 pm »
according to this reviewer tear down my idea of the supply i was looking at as a second option was / is not that good..

https://youtu.be/H8-LTXsHyZA

will ask him if he knows of a better one ,,, he is kind of critical not a bad thing.. and i'm a noob so 90% of what he's saying sounds like magic to me ahhahaha 
 

Offline Gregg

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2018, 11:36:49 pm »
I wouldn’t shy away from a Meanwell open power supply because of this video.  For the price point and application, it is quite reasonable.  It is hands down a better power supply for a TS100 than some of the enclosed brick power supplies in this thread.  The video is criticizing its use for LED lighting in a house where it will be tucked away sight unseen for years, an application quite different than on a bench where if magic smoke starts to be released, you probably will be very aware before it actually catches fire.  The power supply is built to a price and things like deburring the inner edges of sheet metal stampings just aren’t manufacturing considerations.  To make a power supply that the video producer would find no fault would cost two to four times as much.  You know going in the terminal arrangement and could easily glue a strip of plastic over them or desolder them and add whatever suits your purpose.
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2018, 07:17:17 am »
I wouldn’t shy away from a Meanwell open power supply because of this video.  For the price point and application, it is quite reasonable.  It is hands down a better power supply for a TS100 than some of the enclosed brick power supplies in this thread.  The video is criticizing its use for LED lighting in a house where it will be tucked away sight unseen for years, an application quite different than on a bench where if magic smoke starts to be released, you probably will be very aware before it actually catches fire.  The power supply is built to a price and things like deburring the inner edges of sheet metal stampings just aren’t manufacturing considerations.  To make a power supply that the video producer would find no fault would cost two to four times as much.  You know going in the terminal arrangement and could easily glue a strip of plastic over them or desolder them and add whatever suits your purpose.

Two questions.

1) which terminal should i get
2) will this solution result in a "mains earth referenced" cable plug ?


The connection is explained here so i'm clear on that.
https://youtu.be/ETbgiXe8o58
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2018, 06:54:42 pm »
Can someone with technical know how please help me with my question regarding the "MEAN WELL LRS-100-24".
i downloaded the spec sheet from the seller.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/lrs-100-24/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/

And looking for something like "V connected to AC FG"..
One thing i did find was a Block Diagram..Being an absolute noob i enjoy hearing "bigclivedotcom" on youtube go true a diagram but i'm light years from really understanding what i'm seeing..
i do however recognize the ground sign from all the youtube vids i watched.. and i do see that the -v seems to be connected to a ground wire. so does that mean this power supply is not a floating one ? is it "mains earth referenced" .

i want to make the same cable user Rooster Cogburn made here. and user it with this supply
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/msg1493014/#msg1493014

or should i just forget the whole thing and get this one..and make an extension cable. buy adding a female to the male connection.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/gsm90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

i really need sum help because i asked to return the power supply and i want to order a new one .. and all the parts needed to use it connect to it..
 

Offline epigramx

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2018, 11:37:33 pm »
This topic brings to mind the same question I get when I read another TS100 topic, more specific about grounding. It was generally suggested - and here too - to get a grounded power supply.

Fine so far; and that other thread also suggested to ground the device (from its provided connection) to the negative of such supply.

That raises the question though: If it's that so, why wouldn't it be safe to simply ground a non-grounded PSU's negative directly?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 11:40:28 pm by epigramx »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2018, 10:02:24 am »
Sure that's no problem at all, from the electrical perspective. Any power supply (mains brick or otherwise) must be capable of having its output grounded - at some point, that's going to happen though somebody's flesh when they touch the output connector. With cheap on-name mains blocks it would actually be a valuable safety precaution!

The general reluctance to do it is purely a matter of physical implementation - it means a separate ground wire from the mains plug to the negative of the output lead. The output lead is actually less of a problem as they are normally constructed as a coaxial lead with the outer braid being negative (do check, but if the outer barrel is negative then so is the braid). With some cable ties and / or heatshrink it wouldn't be hard to make a neat job.

Note that the ground lead at the mains plug needs to be securely connected and strain relieved so that it can't pull out and catch the live terminals though.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 10:04:08 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Eka

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2018, 03:58:40 am »
This topic brings to mind the same question I get when I read another TS100 topic, more specific about grounding. It was generally suggested - and here too - to get a grounded power supply.

Fine so far; and that other thread also suggested to ground the device (from its provided connection) to the negative of such supply.

That raises the question though: If it's that so, why wouldn't it be safe to simply ground a non-grounded PSU's negative directly?
I won't get into the safety issues as they can be complex. If the power supply is isolated it generally is OK to ground either of it's V+ or V- output, but obviously not both. If you ground the V- and then use it to ground the TS100 tip, there is a small AC signal at the TS100 tip due to the pulsed current flowing through the V- wire. The solution to this is to run a separate ground wire to the tip ground point on the TS100. That means three wires in the cable to the soldering iron.

I ran a separate ground wire from the ground point on the TS100 to my common ground. This means the TS100's tip is at the same potential as my grounded ESD mat. I then grounded the V- wire at the power supply end to stop the 42VAC micro Amp capacitive coupled component of my cheap power supply from interfering with stability of the temperature output. There is still a small AC component at the TS100 end of the V- wire due to the pulsed current flow in the wire, but it is less than 0.2V. I maybe should connect the V- to the TS100 tip ground point, and disconnect V- from the common ground point at the power supply end.
 

Offline epigramx

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2019, 03:47:28 pm »
I just had a back and forth with that YouTube reviewer, and was exactly as I thought. He had a bad tip, didn’t test read it first, and was using a 10 amp PSU, which would still be fine if his tip was not shorted. The kits with the 19v PSU are perhaps their choice to save money and keep the kit costs down, but for me personally, I wanted to get their units rated and advertised 65 watt output, which is only possible with the 24 volt PSU.

So I recommend that TS100 users test read their tips when new, before heating them up. And if you get a TIP WARNING, to immediately disconnect the power. I logged my tips when new:

TS-B2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-BC2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-C1 = 8.6 ohms.
TS-K = 8.6 ohms.
I received a B2 that is 7.4 and a BC2 that is 6.6. I guess the multimeters might differ though I wonder why the ones I have differ between them.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2019, 06:25:26 pm »
I just had a back and forth with that YouTube reviewer, and was exactly as I thought. He had a bad tip, didn’t test read it first, and was using a 10 amp PSU, which would still be fine if his tip was not shorted. The kits with the 19v PSU are perhaps their choice to save money and keep the kit costs down, but for me personally, I wanted to get their units rated and advertised 65 watt output, which is only possible with the 24 volt PSU.

So I recommend that TS100 users test read their tips when new, before heating them up. And if you get a TIP WARNING, to immediately disconnect the power. I logged my tips when new:

TS-B2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-BC2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-C1 = 8.6 ohms.
TS-K = 8.6 ohms.
I received a B2 that is 7.4 and a BC2 that is 6.6. I guess the multimeters might differ though I wonder why the ones I have differ between them.

I may be wrong, but your numbers look close enough, and as you say, there may be a small difference in the DMM being used. Since your numbers are so close, and there is no dead short, you should be fine. Those were just my measurements, not sure there is a known published reading for these tips anyway.
 

Offline poliorcetes

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2019, 02:02:18 pm »
Hi

I have an AC/DC adapter 12V/6A. I tested it and it works.

Does it present any risk at the long run?

TIA



 

Offline Gyro

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2019, 06:25:36 pm »
Not a long term problem as such, but 12V supply will limit the maximum heat output to 17W (versus the 65W maximum at 24V, figures from the user manual).

If the reduced output power and longer warm-up aren't a problem for you then it won't damage the iron.
Chris

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Offline shinji2009

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #91 on: September 02, 2019, 03:21:04 pm »
I just had a back and forth with that YouTube reviewer, and was exactly as I thought. He had a bad tip, didn’t test read it first, and was using a 10 amp PSU, which would still be fine if his tip was not shorted. The kits with the 19v PSU are perhaps their choice to save money and keep the kit costs down, but for me personally, I wanted to get their units rated and advertised 65 watt output, which is only possible with the 24 volt PSU.

So I recommend that TS100 users test read their tips when new, before heating them up. And if you get a TIP WARNING, to immediately disconnect the power. I logged my tips when new:

TS-B2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-BC2 = 7.1 ohms.
TS-C1 = 8.6 ohms.
TS-K = 8.6 ohms.

hi.
"read their tips" what to you mean by that? how to do it?

can anybody please  tell what resistance must be from rings (contacts) of a tip to its body? i got two tips for ts-100 today and one shows megaohms and other gust 100 ohms so i wonder if one of them faulty and maybe i shouldn't use it.
 

Offline hyperknot

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2019, 12:57:36 pm »
Hi, I've read through this topic and I have a few question.

1. The tip. Meanwell has this page. What exactly is the difference here between the tuning for style and the barrel style? Which one do we need for the TS100? P1M/P2M both good? L versions as well?


2. I am a bit confused about all these grounding issues. As long as I want to solder DIY amplifier kits (cables, speaker plugs, etc.) do I need to worry about grounding at all? I was thinking about using either a Lenovo 20V 90W PSU or a Meanwell 24V one, do I need to worry about if their V- pin is connected to ground? If I buy a new Meanwell I can choose between the GST90 and GSM90A and GSM90B, which one is better? Am I OK with my Lenovo 90W one (for very infrequent soldering jobs)?

3. What is the opinion on some cheap chinese PSU-s like this. Generally not recommended?
https://www.banggood.com/Excellway-9-24V-3A-72W-ACDC-Adapter-Switching-Power-Supply-Regulated-Power-Adapter-Display-EU-p-1250656.html
or
https://www.banggood.com/AC-100V-240V-DC-24V-4A-96W-Power-Supply-Charger-Converter-Adapter-p-970663.html
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 12:59:25 pm by hyperknot »
 

Offline shinji2009

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2019, 01:08:40 pm »
hyperknot
1 tuning fork style better because it holds center pin better, delivers more currents
I or L version - think for yourself, what will be more comfortable for you. personally i haven't seen irons with wire at 90 degees) i think there is a reason for this)
2 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/mini-ts100-soldering-iron-and-current-leakage/
3 cheap chinese PSUs is  cheap chinese PSUs. they can be not complant with some regulations, but they are cheap and they are work. think for yourself)
 

Offline hyperknot

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2019, 02:07:39 pm »
Thanks. I've read through that thread, and I believe that for soldering speaker wires, connectors, etc. the floating voltage on the tip really doesn't matter. Am I wrong?

About PSU-s, I've read through the comments and found this:
Quote
AFTER DRAWING THE RESOURCE, I DETERMINED THAT THERE IS A Rather DANGEROUS RESOURCE. The mains voltage is directly connected to the rectifier without a dimmed fuse. The fuse is only created by weakening the PCB !! ENTRY DOES NOT CONTAIN EMC FILTER OR SURGE PROTECTION. ACCORDING TO THE SIZE OF COOLERS I RECOMMEND LOAD MAX. NA 2A. MEASURED VALUES: WITHOUT LOAD = 24.8V, AT LOAD 1.6A = 24.2V.




So that's probably not a good choice.

Still, the 2 prong adjustable Excellway seems to be a good choice, no such bad reviews with that, I'm planning to order that one.
 

Offline Ian.M

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2019, 03:42:53 pm »
'Floating voltage' on the tip doesn't matter as long as you are only working on cables that aren't connected to any electronics, or are working on a device that's isolated on your bench with absolutely no external connections to it.   However if you work on anything that's ground referenced, or has a power lead plugged in, even though its switched off at the socket, you risk zapping it.   e.g. CMOS analog switches commonly used in consumer AV equipment for input selection are notably sensitive to ESD and leakage current damage.

It would be easy enough to mod that PSU to resolve the issues.  Its got pads for a fuse, so just cut and peel off the 'fuse' track and fit a suitable wire ended fuse.  The leakage current through the Y capacitor to the floating output can be resolved one of two ways - ground the output, or add a cap of 10x the Y cap value in series with Y cap on the output side, and ground the junction of the new cap and the Y cap.  In all cases the added ground wire should be insulated, and sleeved where it crosses the primary side circuit. 
 

Offline hyperknot

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Re: choosing/understanding the right powersuply for the TS100
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2019, 11:17:42 pm »
OK, I've just done some basic tests. Set my multimeter to AC Voltage mode and connected one probe to the wall socket's earth pin and the other to the outer ring on two power supplies:
- cheap 24V power supply I had at home, 2 prong plug: 115 Volt
- Lenovo 20V 90W power supply, 3 prong plug: 0 Volt

So I guess this means that the Lenovo power supply has grounded V- and the cheap one has floating V-?
 


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