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Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: nsled on May 07, 2023, 11:34:32 am

Title: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: nsled on May 07, 2023, 11:34:32 am
Hello, I'm trying to create a slight delay in the voltage rise when a switch is closed, I can see how this would be done if the load and power supply are separate, just put a capacitor in parallel, but how can it be done when the power supply is the load?

The device is a flash unit, with a wired "switch". I want a very slight delay when its triggered.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: BeBuLamar on May 07, 2023, 12:28:49 pm
Do you really want the delay when you activate the switch by hand? If you use some other mean to activate the switch then have the delay before the switch.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: nsled on May 07, 2023, 12:42:01 pm
The switch is symbolic, but it is physically triggered just not by hand. The delay cannot be before the triggering of the switch.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: Shay on May 07, 2023, 12:52:08 pm
If I understand correctly, maybe a capacitor in series to the switch with a bleeder resistor?
As soon as you close the switch, it starts charging, which will add some delay to the rise.

Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: jpanhalt on May 07, 2023, 01:02:36 pm
Basically, you are asking to "debounce" the switch with a 500 us delay. 
http://www.ganssle.com/debouncing.pdf (http://www.ganssle.com/debouncing.pdf)

The image below is from Grassle.  There are other versions.   Just charge a capacitor to hold the flash in standby, then discharge it through a resistor and your switch to ground to make it flash.

500 us is a very short time for debouncing.

EDIT: Attachment #2 shows what I tried to describe.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: BeBuLamar on May 07, 2023, 02:01:57 pm
The switch is symbolic, but it is physically triggered just not by hand. The delay cannot be before the triggering of the switch.

You can use a transistor or SCR as a switch and then you delay the base or gate signal that coming from the triggering device like a photocell or camera sync contact.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: wasedadoc on May 07, 2023, 05:12:42 pm
Depending on the exact circuit of the flash there may be a substantial voltage across those open contacts.  Possibly enough to kill a typical "small signal" transistor.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: jpanhalt on May 07, 2023, 05:38:11 pm
The voltage across the switch is shown as 3.3V.

I suspected something like a pull-low to flash switch.  That is, the positive terminal of the switch does not have a direct connection to VCC.  Voltage may be high, but current capability might be quite low.  In a way, that is good as one would only need to pull to the appropriate "low" (e.g.,TTL or CMOS). On the other hand, charging of the capacitor could be quite slow.  I use a MAX16054 to turn on a circuit (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/max16054.pdf (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/max16054.pdf)).  The pullup is about 100k.  If the TS uses a 100nF capacitor and a 10K resistor, the time constant is 1 ms.  The RC time constant for charging would be 10 ms (i.e., 3.3V/100k = 33 uA), which is probably OK for slow repetitive flash speeds.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: wasedadoc on May 07, 2023, 06:03:45 pm
The voltage across the switch is shown as 3.3V.

I suspected something like a pull-low to flash switch.  That is, the positive terminal of the switch does not have a direct connection to VCC.  Voltage may be high, but current capability might be quite low.  In a way, that is good as one would only need to pull to the appropriate "low" (e.g.,TTL or CMOS). On the other hand, charging of the capacitor could be quite slow.  I use a MAX16054 to turn on a circuit (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/max16054.pdf (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/max16054.pdf)).  The pullup is about 100k.  If the TS uses a 100nF capacitor and a 10K resistor, the time constant is 1 ms.  The RC time constant for charging would be 10 ms (i.e., 3.3V/100k = 33 uA), which is probably OK for slow repetitive flash speeds.
I can interpret the opening post as indicating that the unit is powered from 3.3 Volts, not definitively stating that the switch has 3.3 Volts across it.  I can also interpret "The device is a flash unit, with a wired "switch". I want a very slight delay when its triggered." as indicating that the switch is not a power on-off switch but is the switch that triggers the flash.

The device is referred to as a "flash unit".  Although the built-in flash in mobile phones is invariably a LED, I think a flash tube is much more common in add-on units for cameras.

Need clarification.
Title: Re: Creating a slight (~500us) delay when a switch is closed.
Post by: nsled on May 07, 2023, 10:25:02 pm
The switch has 3.3v across it, it is a >=0.5us LED high speed strobe. Once a bullet trips the switch i want a short delay so the bullet can be photographed away from the switch. 500us is just round abouts in practice it may be 200us etc. In my head I was picturing changing the cap value to change delay. So is what Shay suggested viable? just a cap in series with switch? I know there's certain specifics that need to be done experimentally like what voltage it actually fires at, what inherent delay it already has etc.

I know this can be done any number of ways but I'm specifically after the bullet acting on the switch mechanically.