excellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.
They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.
They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.
Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home
Dear all,The first think you should consider, before anything else, is if any of it is covered by any insurance policies you have. Hopefully you can make a claim and get everything replaced, with only the excess to pay.
I have had a bad experience. :palm:
Today It is some kind of “damage control”
2 days ago a water pipe burst in my house and of course spray water ower my new developed electronic lab (note my amateur lab).
I awaited 2 days before power up my gear.
My old FLUKE 79iii was not working correct. It was flicking around in the different UIR modes.
My new purchase HAKKO FX-888D was making some disturbing noise that remind me kind of sparks noise. I think it is busted!
My new RIGOL DS1054X seemed to work.
My new SIGLENT SDM3065X seemed to work also.
My biggest concern is the expensive RIGOL and SIGLENT if there are OK or not.
During their boot sequinse they are not making any error code!
So my big Q should I be nervous?
Please advise
You're right, ideally deionised water should be used, but in reality plain tap water will work. Once it's dry the tiny amount ofexcellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.
They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.
[edit] If Tektronix wash PCB's in tap water - I will never ever buy any piece of equipment from them ;)
It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.
You're right, ideally deionised water should be used, but in reality plain tap water will work. Once it's dry the tiny amount of dissolved salts aren't a problem, because they need water to be conductive or corrosive.
It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.
During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down (https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down)
ISTR there are videos of that process.
It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.
During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down (https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down)
ISTR there are videos of that process.
It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.
During servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down (https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-down)
ISTR there are videos of that process.
Again "small details" are omitted :-DD
1) It was "Back in the 1960s and 1970"
2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“
Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments
The "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.
For the too-lazy-to-click-the-link people:
The "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.
RTFmypost: I did read the article.
Since you chose to omit the inconvenient-to-you context, I'll point out you "missed"
- the picture of the transistorised 7000 series scope being washed
- the text stating "A photo of Charles (Chuck) cheerfully washing a Tek 7000 scope back in 1972 has survived"
That doesn't fit with your statement "Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments" (your emphasis).
2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“
Pay close attention to vacuum tube type instruments of sentence (citation) above
They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.
Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home
Yes I know who he is or to be exact - was. Are you sure his chemistry was as good as his electronics?
Calgonit contains Sodium citrate and Carbonic acid. It's pH is 10. If he would wrote in the book that jumping off the cliff is good for your PCB's - you would do that? Sometimes you shall use your head or just check what electronics industry is actually doing.
You get your authors mixed up. Pease is has nothing to do with AOE.
They missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry.
Pease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home
Calgonit contains Sodium citrate and Carbonic acid. It's pH is 10. If he would wrote in the book that jumping off the cliff is good for your PCB's - you would do that? Sometimes you shall use your head or just check what electronics industry is actually doing.
Hmm. Who to believe, a dead jolly old man, quick to help, with a worldwide reputation in electronics, called on to consult by all sorts of people or a grumpy old man with a reputation for being acerbic and ungrammatical on electronics fora? Hmmm, so difficult to decide.
Na, not really. I'd side with old Bob. Especially as he used to take stuff from his dishwasher and actually measure it in rigs where he was looking to detect femtoamp level leakage currents. Like here (https://www.electronicdesign.com/test-amp-measurement/whats-all-femtoampere-stuff-anyhow). Kind of suggests it works, doesn't it?
I spoke about this with a chemical engineer and he said the crux is the water and the detergent. The water should be the purest you can get, meaning demineralized, deionized, osmosis-treated, i.e. the stuff that does not conduct electricity! Professional window cleaners sell it by the gallon. The detergent should be mild and guaranteed to not leave deposits. |
Back in the seventy's I used hot water and fairy liquid to clean off an old style TV pcb which had been leaked all over by a failing electrolytic capacitor. The manufacturer for some reason had mounted the capacitor upside down on the chassis frame so that any leak automatically covered the board below it. The fault had been a rolling picture and the electrolyte had formed a resistive path across the surface of the pcb. The hot water plus mild detergent treatment cured the problem. Without knowing how wet the instrument gear got inside or whether anything other than water added itself and how long it remained waterlogged it is difficult to recommend much. If the enclosed test gear still meets it's self calibration and has been dried out thoroughly, warm or hot area, for a couple of days it should be OK. Any easily accessible items using hot water and a mild detergent should be OK BUT make sure the items are thoroughly dry before powering them up again. Maybe a few days after the wash and brush up. :)
Dear all thanks for your support.I would be careful mentioning your equipment starting and seemingly working to the insurance company. They may easily mistake the equipment for non defective, "mistake" meaning it's the cheapest route for them. It really isn't unreasonable to claim cleaning and calibration costs for everything that has been wet and that means most of it is written off. It turning on isn't any guarantee it still functions as intended short or long term.
Some feedback for you guys,
I have not power up my equipment, agin, as your advice.
I have contact my insuring company and that road could be another chapter.
But I have open up the FLUKE 79iii and clean the board with alcohol. I did find some deposit that must be old and not related to my water problem. Now it works fine. I learn a lot
I am “chicken out” to do the same action with my RIGOL DS1054X.
And especial the more sensitive SIGLENT SDM3065X, refer to our Mr. tautech commet.
I think I will await the reply from my insurance company.
Take care.
//uc
I frequently wash dirty boards out in the sink with dish soap and warm water. I normally let it dry for several days by a heat register though, or if I'm in a hurry I go over it with a hair dryer or put it in the oven on warm for a while.The problem is what happens if the equipment goes faulty in 15 or 30 months due to lingering. Will the insurer cover it? I can assure you they won't.
Insurance is a different matter. If I were going to deal with insurance I would want the gear to be professionally refurbished, or declared a total loss and then buy it back from the insurance company for salvage value and repair it myself.Exactly that.
Insurance is a different matter. If I were going to deal with insurance I would want the gear to be professionally refurbished, or declared a total loss and then buy it back from the insurance company for salvage value and repair it myself.Exactly that.
Indeed.If the premium's higher next year because of this you need a better insurer.
Also expect that next year's premium will be higher.
And make sure you actually are covered - the Ts&Cs may "require" you to have declared high value, sets, and business items separately. The insurance company will use any and evey means to avoid paying out.
(Tip with any insurance: only skim what is covered, but do carefully read the detailed exclusion clauses - and understand the circumstances in which each clause could bite you)
... but you should be able to buy it back at salvage value which may be next to nothing.
It's quite common to use sale prices of similar gear on ebay or used equipment dealers. The only direct experience I've had was with a car which was quite a rare configuration of an otherwise relatively common car. They looked all over the country for comparable cars to base the value on, failing to find anything that qualifies they hired an appraiser who told them it was worth pretty much exactly what I said it was.It'd be safe to assume they're going to lowball you the first time. It's what they do.
I would expect them to give you a lowball offer and then you'd scour ebay sold items for comparable equipment and in most cases a decent insurance company will cave and pay out as long as the amount you're demanding is not completely obscene.
If you have a lot of equipment you want to insure, take detailed photos of it, record model and serial numbers, make a note of anything unique about the specific equipment. Save any receipts you have, save any sold listings you happen to come across. It's not always trivial but it happens every day, there are people out there who's whole job is to assess the value of just about anything.
I hope your policy covers the equipment. I've come across several home and contents insurance policies that get a bit particular once you step outside the regular household stuff like a fridge, lounge, clothing, etc. There is sometimes an allowance of X amount for things like collections and hobbies, but if you have more than that, you have to detail what it is you want covered. They then calculate an extra component for your premium.In that case it's time to get creative. An oscilloscope is a terrible yet expensive radio. A multimeter is a battery tester. A soldering iron is a wildly ineffective clothes iron or some strange cooking implement.
In that case it's time to get creative. An oscilloscope is a terrible yet expensive radio. A multimeter is a battery tester. A soldering iron is a wildly ineffective clothes iron or some strange cooking implement.
I hope your policy covers the equipment. I've come across several home and contents insurance policies that get a bit particular once you step outside the regular household stuff like a fridge, lounge, clothing, etc. There is sometimes an allowance of X amount for things like collections and hobbies, but if you have more than that, you have to detail what it is you want covered. They then calculate an extra component for your premium.In that case it's time to get creative. An oscilloscope is a terrible yet expensive radio. A multimeter is a battery tester. A soldering iron is a wildly ineffective clothes iron or some strange cooking implement.
There can be disadvantages if they spot that and deny the claim.I assumed it was pretty obvious that I was joking and that I'm not advocating insurance fraud. If there was any doubt: don't commit insurance fraud.
Over here when you take out insurance of any sort, they often ask whether you have ever had an insurance claim refused. If you answer "yes", then the cherry-picking algorithm comes into effect.
If you didn't disclose such a "material fact", then you would pay the insurance fee and get an insurance document. But if you had to make a claim, at that point they would look at your history, see you had lied when taking out the insurance, and declare the policy void. But awkward if that is travel insurance :)