EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: Hoover on September 12, 2020, 04:19:54 am
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I'm thinking about doing this 3 year Bachelor of Engineering Technology at a university in Australia Queensland. The description of the degree is advertised to be an engineering technologist position other than a professional engineer. The Australian Qualifications Framework says that a bachelor level degree is at level 7. So would that mean I will be a professional engineer when I graduate other then an engineering technologist?
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586)
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I think they are just trying to seem fancy by saying "technologist" Although the words "Professional engineer" can have a special meaning, i'm not sure of the regulations are where you live.
Keep in mind, the degree is a piece of paper that gets you an interview. Your knowledge and skill is what gets you the job.
The degree may or may not give you the knowledge and skill, depending how good it the course is and how much you study or the effort you put in.
There are degrees out there that are pretty shit, you can pass but come out of it without learning what you need. etc..
Do you currently have any electronics skill/knowledge?
(i'm asking because sometimes people have the skill already (self taught) but feel they need to do a degree to get the piece of paper)
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Terms like "Professional Engineer" are completely separate to anything a degree can give you.
Degrees are "book learning" and do not automatically translate into anything you will find in industry. All they do is demonstrate you have ability to understand some stuff and the discipline to complete the course. Whether what you've learned is at all useful in a job is a question that is, typically, answered with a "No" - but it shows you might be worth talking to.
Examples of practical demonstration and application of knowledge are worth the effort - sometimes more than the degree, but the degree is sometimes a hurdle put in by HR droids. I've had some exposure to job applicant assessment and often having the degree was just a tick off a check list and didn't weigh into the decision process all that much (YMMV). Often, applicants would have an attitude that their degree was a shining star - but when it came down to it, practical abilities for the job at hand were far more important. I have seen the situation where the "I know it all" graduate is a hindrance, since they don't have practical experience and will need to realise they know nothing of how that theory applies to a job - if it is at all of any value.
Same sort of thing for membership to industry organisations, such as IEEE. They can be supportive to an application, but they rarely trump someone who shines in the interview.
In short - don't get too hung up on the titles that are put on things.
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I'm thinking about doing this 3 year Bachelor of Engineering Technology at a university in Australia Queensland. The description of the degree is advertised to be an engineering technologist position other than a professional engineer. The Australian Qualifications Framework says that a bachelor level degree is at level 7. So would that mean I will be a professional engineer when I graduate other then an engineering technologist?
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586)
If it says level 7 then it's level 7, BUT it depends on whether it's accredited by Engineers Australia, and in Australia that's all that matters for "Professional Engineer" member status with them.
I'd be very wary about any program in Australia claiming to be Level 7 bachelors equivalent but only 3 years. I think 4 years EE bachelors are actually Level 8?
As others have said, it basically doesn't mean squat in Australia in the electronics industry, but technically if you want to get formally recognised you really have to make sure it's EA approved.
I suspect it's not, as EA make it quite clear that 4 years required for professional engineer member status, and the degree program itself says quite clearly Engineering Technologist, and that is a 3 years degree equivalent according to EA.
https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/content-files/2016-12/engineers-australia-articulation-guidelines.pdf (https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/content-files/2016-12/engineers-australia-articulation-guidelines.pdf)
EDIT: After looking at the course material, this is most certainly a typical 3 years engineering technologist degree. It would not be equivalent to a 4 years bachelors. No chance of being recognised a professional engineer by EA with this course.
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I'm thinking about doing this 3 year Bachelor of Engineering Technology at a university in Australia Queensland. The description of the degree is advertised to be an engineering technologist position other than a professional engineer. The Australian Qualifications Framework says that a bachelor level degree is at level 7. So would that mean I will be a professional engineer when I graduate other then an engineering technologist?
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586)
If it says level 7 then it's level 7, BUT it depends on whether it's accredited by Engineers Australia, and in Australia that's all that matters for "Professional Engineer" member status with them.
I'd be very wary about any program in Australia claiming to be Level 7 bachelors equivalent but only 3 years. I think 4 years EE bachelors are actually Level 8?
As others have said, it basically doesn't mean squat in Australia in the electronics industry, but technically if you want to get formally recognised you really have to make sure it's EA approved.
I suspect it's not, as EA make it quite clear that 4 years required for professional engineer member status, and the degree program itself says quite clearly Engineering Technologist, and that is a 3 years degree equivalent according to EA.
https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/content-files/2016-12/engineers-australia-articulation-guidelines.pdf (https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/content-files/2016-12/engineers-australia-articulation-guidelines.pdf)
EDIT: After looking at the course material, this is most certainly a typical 3 years engineering technologist degree. It would not be equivalent to a 4 years bachelors. No chance of being recognised a professional engineer by EA with this course.
If I did do this degree, what type of work can I get as an engineering technologist?
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If I did do this degree, what type of work can I get as an engineering technologist?
You're not thinking about this the right way!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tk13MijU4Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tk13MijU4Y)
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If I did do this degree, what type of work can I get as an engineering technologist?
You're not thinking about this the right way!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tk13MijU4Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tk13MijU4Y)
That is really helpful :)
I'd be very wary about any program in Australia claiming to be Level 7 bachelors equivalent but only 3 years. I think 4 years EE bachelors are actually Level 8?
In Australia a general bachelors degree is 3 years. A 4 year degree in Australia is 3 bachelors degree + 1 year honours. I think.
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In Australia a general bachelors degree is 3 years. A 4 year degree in Australia is 3 bachelors degree + 1 year honours. I think.
Not in engineering. A general bachelors in EE has always been 4 years.
A "bachelor" of art or other fields can be 3 years, but engineering is always 4 years. It may or may not have the "honors" components. This is why EA specifically call out a "4 year" bachelors.
There are some 3 years EE "bachelors" around, but they are always assessed by EA as 3 year "Engineering Technologist" level. You will not achieve EA professional member status with a 3 year bachelor.
If you are interested in the strictness of this requirement and how picky they are, you can get rejected with a 3 year EE + 1 year honors + PhD:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/engineers-australia-membership/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/engineers-australia-membership/)
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If you don't have a full engineering degree but do have the skills to do engineering work one of the methods to get a job is get some other lower level job that works along side the engineers in the company.
You and them will likely think along the same lines and talk about projects and engineering stuff, even if it's only during lunch breaks.
They will get to know you and notice that you have skills and can be of use to them and the company. (Engineers always have more work to do than time to do it)
One thing engineers hate is hiring new people, so if an engineering job opens up at the company they will be more likely to promote you, someone they know, rather than hire a random person.
I'm not saying this is the best approach or that it will always work, but it's one way to go about getting an engineering job without an engineering degree
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Below are a couple of things I learned. I am not sure it applies present day since college is becoming a much softer environment. In my college days (before 1980 USA), recruiters and career councilors at the university had said these about a degree:
1. It shows that you stick with it. Details: getting a degree means not just completing courses in your field of interest, you also need to do reasonably well with off-field degree requirements that you do not necessarily like. Courses such as "Writing", "Art History", "Basic Physiology" or "Ancient Greek Philosophy", a few of those off-field course credits are required for your degree whether you are interested in them or not. Just as in a job, there will be things you love doing, and there will be things you absolutely hate but must do - did you get those done and how well? Completing a degree will affirm that you at least do those adequately. Completing those at good grades can be a statement that you will do task with good effort whether that task is of interest to you or not.
2. You more likely have broader knowledge. Details: if someone got into EE because of liking audio stuff, that person may know everything about a good audio system but may have near non-existing level of knowledge with other expected EE needs. A degree means that person likely (but not for sure) have a broader base of fundamental knowledge than one without a degree.
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Be wary of degrees with vague names. I have no idea what a "Bachelor of Engineering Technology" is. If a CV appeared on my desk with that qualification, but without some solid experience, it would probably only get a serious read if I don't have a bunch of CVs to scan with more specific qualifications on them.
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Be wary of degrees with vague names. I have no idea what a "Bachelor of Engineering Technology" is.
In the case of the OP, that's why they have different names, it's generally an indicator of the 3 vs 4 year thing:
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586)
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-honours-1542 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-honours-1542)
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If I did do this degree, what type of work can I get as an engineering technologist?
You can get similar jobs as engineers but for less pay, less respect and less potential employers.
I started with a 2 year college diploma in electronics engineering technology. Started in production and worked my way up to design roles where I would sometimes fix designs that engineers were struggling with. I wasnt happy with my wage so I job hunted for a while, not many design jobs said theyd accept technologists and one of the ones that did had a manager that didnt agree with HR or whoever wrote the ad and told me he is not hiring a technologist.
I returned to school for a 4 year engineering degree, took 3 years though because I skipped first year thanks to college credits.
Before I even finished I had multiple job offers, better wage and bosses that actually listen to me, sometimes.
The sad thing is I learned and remembered more applicable engineering knowledge in 2 years of college where I barely tried and got B average than I did in 3 years of uni where I worked very hard and got straight As. But that doesnt really matter, most of the learning happens at work anyways.
If I had a do over, I would go straight to the 4 year degree or I would have tried harder to become an entrepenuer. As long as you rely on employeers or investors, the extra respect you get from the degree is very valuable.
If 4 years is too much of a commitment, you could try talking to people you want to work for and see what they recommend. 2 different people have told me they hire website designers with 6 months of schooling and pay about 30$/hr which was better than I made as a technologist working as FW / HW designer.
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technologist sounds like a technician to me... here after 2nd school, we have diploma (3 years) thats what qualifies you as a technician more or less, a degree (4-5 years) thats the way to PE (with another 3 years working experience and then application and interview), if you from diploma cert (with good pointer) you can resume another 3-4 years to upgrade to a degree... another meaning is one full circle/rotation is 360 degrees.
I don't think it would be a technician level. A technician is more of an specialist trade that you go to a vocational school for e.g TAFE, not a university level bachelors degree.
Correct me on this if I'm wrong. Crudely speaking, a professional engineer degree is more 60% theory and 40% lab, whilst engineering technologist degree is 60% lab and 40% theory?
For a career, I don't want to be repairing equipment with a bachelor level degree, that makes no sense to go to university for that, if it was a cert 4 or diploma, yea maybe it makes sense for a technician to do that. An engineering technologist should be able to get the same job as an professional engineer, but maybe it is more hands on kinda like you design it and build it.
Be wary of degrees with vague names. I have no idea what a "Bachelor of Engineering Technology" is.
In the case of the OP, that's why they have different names, it's generally an indicator of the 3 vs 4 year thing:
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-technology-in-electronic-and-computer-engineering-1586)
https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-honours-1542 (https://www.griffith.edu.au/study/degrees/bachelor-of-engineering-honours-1542)
There is reason that I can not do the 4 year degree opposed to the 3 year is because of some time issues I have.
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If you can afford it, take your time. The difference of one year of school over a lifetime is tiny. On the other hand, if you apply yourself, there are opportunities to learn more in that additional year that may not come along again. University doesn't have to be about "certifications" -- it should be about learning.
Yes, there are arguments that "school is a waste of time." Perhaps it has been for some. But I graduated from a four year program back in the 80's -- BSEE (and then jobs, gradual school, and jobs). There is not a *single* engineering course I took that wasn't relevant to some task that I've done in 35+ years. That includes thermo, kinetics, rotating machines, and boundary-value problems, as well as the "normal" electronics curriculum. Book learning was part of that, building stuff, fixing stuff, debugging stuff was another part. They were both important. YMMV, but my mileage hasn't.
Most of my career has been in computer systems design (think big boxes with wheels) and high performance microprocessor design.
And take a literature class when you can -- reading good writers can help make good writers.
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I don't think it would be a technician level. A technician is more of an specialist trade that you go to a vocational school for e.g TAFE, not a university level bachelors degree.
Correct me on this if I'm wrong. Crudely speaking, a professional engineer degree is more 60% theory and 40% lab, whilst engineering technologist degree is 60% lab and 40% theory?
For a career, I don't want to be repairing equipment with a bachelor level degree, that makes no sense to go to university for that, if it was a cert 4 or diploma, yea maybe it makes sense for a technician to do that. An engineering technologist should be able to get the same job as an professional engineer, but maybe it is more hands on kinda like you design it and build it.
I have outlined all this in my video.
In Australia, when it comes to most electronics jobs in the industry, experience trumps qualifications. Yoru qualification go to the bottom of your resume once you have experience.
BUT it WILL be harder or even impossible to get some job at companies that do strictly require a 4 year degree. The medical device industry and government are two industries that come to mind.
And if you go to work in other countries, they can be very strict in that regard.
Whilst a 3 year qualification is certainly better than a 2 year one, I don't think there are many jobs out there that are going to care.
Basically you either have the 4 year bachelor and are eligible to be registered as a Professional Engineer or you are not. I don't think many companies in the industry care about "engineering technologist" level, at least not in electronics anyway.
BUT a 3 year degree will enable you to go onto some post graduate masters courses like this one: https://www.deakin.edu.au/course/master-professional-practice-engineering (https://www.deakin.edu.au/course/master-professional-practice-engineering)
Whereas a 2 year one will not.
You can do that part time online.
This is actually a way to "leap frog" your way to a masters level AQF level 9 and professional status with EA without having to do your 4 year bachelors.
Some places may still care that you don't have a bachelors, but when you can show them you have a masters and professional membership you should be home free.
If you want to take that path then just be certain your 3 year will qualify you for that masters course.
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About a decade ago the Bachelor in Engineering *usually* referred to a degree course. They may be compacting a four year degree into three with summer semesters, etc.
The 2-3 year Associate Degree or Diploma (used to be called Associate Diploma) is the next level down. The term 'Bachelor' is the key here, although cash for education may have changed that.
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About a decade ago the Bachelor in Engineering *usually* referred to a degree course. They may be compacting a four year degree into three with summer semesters, etc.
I looked at the course in question here, it's certainly not a 4 year bachelor compressed into 3 years.
The 2-3 year Associate Degree or Diploma (used to be called Associate Diploma) is the next level down. The term 'Bachelor' is the key here, although cash for education may have changed that.
Not to a company that advertises "Must be eligible for membership of Engineers Australia. A 3 year technology "bachelors" won't cut it.