Author Topic: Dremel / Dremel like device?  (Read 6834 times)

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Online beanflying

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2018, 07:56:15 am »
As someone who has used Dremels for well over 20 years they are great BUT !!!

Plastics melt and in particular Chineseum ones instead of cutting clean and yes I do have an extensive range of milling and abrasive bits of all sorts. This is not to say don't buy one they are invaluable but as the OP wanted to know about plastic enclosures seems everyone has forgotten about the humble nibbler.

Yesterdays job on Steel with little to no burr and no melt back on the powder coat. Equally well at home on plastic up to a couple of mm thick too. Once again not a perfect item for all situations but everyone should have one.


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Offline ikrase

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2018, 08:23:01 am »
I was just wondering when somebody was finally going to mention the Nibbler.

I have an Adel nibbler. It can be inserted through a roughly half-inch hole (or a smaller hole filed into a square shape) and using only hand-power, you can kachunk kachunk kachunk your way into a square or other shape hole. I found it vastly easier to get a uniform shaped hole than with any kind of freehand rotary tool plus it is cheap, quiet, and does not produce noxious dust.


 

Offline Emi

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2018, 08:25:08 am »
Definitely in two words..Proxxon  are smooth, quiet and precise hobbistic tools; not very poweful but ideal for "silent"domestic use..
But it depends on how much spindle concentricity is required..
Dremel and other brands are perfect ( and cheaper..) in all other situations  :-+

PS: usually insert bits quality is much important than motor itself..
 
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Online Electro Detective

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2018, 09:41:36 am »
I have the exact Nibbler in the photo above, it was top dog back in the day for those irritating cutting jobs that needed gear one could not afford or never knew existed (or what offbeat name it had)

I reckon there's not much you can't do with a Nibbler and a rotary tool together on a metal, plastic or PCB hack fest   >:D

Good rotary bits on a knockoff tool works a lot better (and safer) than knockoff bits, but you still have to take it easy and not go too 'industrial' with a knockoff Rotary tool 

or full size handheld grinders and drills for that matter

and watch those speed limits the tool manufacturer recommends for the bit/disc and material being worked on

i.e. read the list and keep it with the tool always, along with the eyewear...  :scared:


« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 09:44:23 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2018, 12:57:40 pm »
Definitely in two words..Proxxon  are smooth, quiet and precise hobbistic tools; not very poweful but ideal for "silent"domestic use..
That’s 17 words, not two!  >:D

But it depends on how much spindle concentricity is required..
Dremel and other brands are perfect ( and cheaper..) in all other situations  :-+
When using tungsten carbide drill bits for PCB drilling, high spindle concentricity (low run-out) is critical, because tungsten carbide is so brittle. If you’ve got 0.1mm wobble on a 0.7mm drill bit, that’ll snap tungsten carbide. Proxxon does much better at this, both with the spindle design, but also in the attachment between machine and drill stand, and the stability of the drill stand itself.

I don’t think you have any authority to declare that Dremel is better in ALL otherr situations.

Nor is Dremel necessarily cheaper. Here in Switzerland, Dremel is often more expensive than Proxxon.


PS: usually insert bits quality is much important than motor itself..
Well, both are important!

I read a while ago somewhere that while the Proxxon machines are better, the Dremel bits are superior. So indeed, I got a nice Dremel-brand bit assortment to use with my Proxxon, and it’s a great combination. (The only downside is having to switch between the 2.4mm collet for the Proxxon bits and the 3.2mm one for Dremel bits!)
 

Offline Emi

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2018, 01:53:17 pm »
Ok...i simply said that Dremel is more heavy duty, noisy and powerful but less accurate than Proxxon  ..Products with slightly different targets..
I agree about bits ;)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 01:57:22 pm by Emi »
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2018, 02:07:53 pm »
I have both a Dremel and a no name.

Dremel was about 5 times more expensive and less centered (the bit wobbles more on Dremel) than on the no name one. Consumable branded 'Dremel' are even more expensive, like 10 times or more. Obviously, Dremel branded consumables won't last you 10 times longer.

In the long term, I ended up using the no name tool all the time, while the Dremel 400i Digital is gathering dust in brand new condition. The no name still works just fine. I have it for more 10 years now, but used it only occasionally. Maybe I was lucky with an exceptionally good no-name tool, or maybe I don't use it hard or often enough to see the difference, or maybe there is no such big difference to justify the price, I don't know.

TL;DR
A "Dremel like" rotary tool is nice to have around, and comes in very useful many times.

For my eyes, Dremel tools and adapters looks very "toy-ish", like a wrench key made out of plastic, yet very expensive for no particular reason.

Offline Burczyk

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2018, 05:32:44 am »
I use a Proxxon IBS/E. It is very quiet and does not wobble at all. The only drawback is it's price. I also have a MB 140/S drill stand for it. It is mostly being used to drill PCBs, but when I sometimes need to cut plastic, it does so without any problems. :-+
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Offline ggchab

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2018, 09:27:33 am »
I use a Proxxon IBS/E. It is very quiet and does not wobble at all. The only drawback is it's price. I also have a MB 140/S drill stand for it. It is mostly being used to drill PCBs, but when I sometimes need to cut plastic, it does so without any problems. :-+
I have the same model but previous version and it's still working perfectly. I bought it at least 15 years ago.
I am also using the rubber band trick ;)
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2018, 10:58:03 pm »
I use a Proxxon IBS/E. It is very quiet and does not wobble at all. The only drawback is it's price. I also have a MB 140/S drill stand for it. It is mostly being used to drill PCBs, but when I sometimes need to cut plastic, it does so without any problems. :-+
I have the IBS/E as well. Price wasn't too bad — I think about €70 on Amazon.de. Similar to Dremel.

I have the MB 200 drill stand for mine. Haven't used it much yet though. Does work beautifully for PCB holes, of course!
 

Offline paulca

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2018, 10:16:49 am »
So my latest enclosure I just used a normal drill and files.  Worked out okay.  Will probably consider a dremel later, but I gather the dremel with routing bits probably won't make things much easier than drill+files.

My holes were too small for a nibbler but I don't have one of those either.

Quick question on drilling while I have experienced folks about.

Sometimes when I start a hole into ABS plastic or drilling out a soldered hole in a PCB the drill catches immediately and out comes a lovely spiral of material and the drill goes through the hole in a mater of seconds.  Other times it seems to just polish the hole and produces dust, takes ages to get the hole drilled.

Is there a trick to getting the bit to catch properly?
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2018, 03:05:45 pm »
As someone who has used Dremels for well over 20 years they are great BUT !!!

Plastics melt and in particular Chineseum ones instead of cutting clean and yes I do have an extensive range of milling and abrasive bits of all sorts. This is not to say don't buy one they are invaluable but as the OP wanted to know about plastic enclosures seems everyone has forgotten about the humble nibbler.

Yesterdays job on Steel with little to no burr and no melt back on the powder coat. Equally well at home on plastic up to a couple of mm thick too. Once again not a perfect item for all situations but everyone should have one.

Can you give a link for a good one on aliexpress or banggood? I hope there are since it is cheaper (no shipping cost) but if not then what is the best one to have. I am in Jordan (the country next to Palestine) so shipping will not be like you.

I have some plastic enclosures as well as altoid-like enclosures, can the nibbler do it? what to use for aluminum?

Quote
TL;DR
A "Dremel like" rotary tool is nice to have around, and comes in very useful many times.

For my eyes, Dremel tools and adapters looks very "toy-ish", like a wrench key made out of plastic, yet very expensive for no particular reason.

I have got these:

https://www.banggood.com/220V-72W-Micro-Electric-Hand-Drill-Adjustable-Variable-Speed-Electric-Drill-p-1110910.html
https://www.banggood.com/10pcs-Diamond-Saw-Discs-Wheel-Blade-Rotary-Tool-Set-For-Dremel-p-936102.html
https://www.banggood.com/3Pcs-14-Inch-Hex-Shank-HSS-Titanium-Coated-Step-Drill-Bit-Set-3-124-124-20mm-p-1003275.html

and I think they will be enough for electronics enclosures. What do you think?
 

Offline SirAlucard

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2018, 09:20:36 pm »
^ That's really not a bad idea. I've actually got a spare engine from a drill I threw away. Might have to go and make something along these lines. The other thought I had for it's use was a small lathe. However I don't really know how much use for that I'd get.
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2018, 09:38:54 pm »
I have got these:

https://www.banggood.com/220V-72W-Micro-Electric-Hand-Drill-Adjustable-Variable-Speed-Electric-Drill-p-1110910.html
https://www.banggood.com/10pcs-Diamond-Saw-Discs-Wheel-Blade-Rotary-Tool-Set-For-Dremel-p-936102.html
https://www.banggood.com/3Pcs-14-Inch-Hex-Shank-HSS-Titanium-Coated-Step-Drill-Bit-Set-3-124-124-20mm-p-1003275.html

and I think they will be enough for electronics enclosures. What do you think?

Let's hope they'll cut-it.
:)

All I can talk is from my own limited experience. I am not a mechanic, and I rarely cut ABS, so I can not give you an informed advice. Also, my Dremels are slightly different than your pick: they are 5000-33000/min, 130W for Dremel I 400 Digital, and respectively 8000-30000/min, 140W for the no name one (actually it has a sticker with the name Power Action). Both have the max diameter of 3.2mm, and both have small pin-chucks. Instead, the tool in the link have a bigger key-chuck, 72W and 5000-8500 RPM.

About the step drill bits, yes they are also very useful for general drilling big holes in sheets of various material, but they are very big and heavy. I don't think it's possible to use them at many thousands of RPM. AFAIK, step drill bits are for drilling machines with much lower RPMs, like hundreds of RPM, instead of thousands.

I don't know if diamond discs are good for plastic, they are recommended for cutting hard and abrasive materials, like e.g. ceramics. My favorite cutting discs are the Fiberglass Reinforced Cut Off Wheel 32mm. Those disks can cut through almost anything, including metals. They wear in diameter during time, but they are very cheap, like $10 for a pack of 100pcs.

This is the first link returned when searching for "dremel accessories usage": https://blueroofdesigns.com/2009/07/29/what-are-these-dremel-thingies-for/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 10:46:32 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2018, 11:11:28 pm »

Can you give a link for a good one on aliexpress or banggood? I hope there are since it is cheaper (no shipping cost) but if not then what is the best one to have. I am in Jordan (the country next to Palestine) so shipping will not be like you.

I have some plastic enclosures as well as altoid-like enclosures, can the nibbler do it? what to use for aluminum?


Use this search on eBay should get you one "NIBBLING TOOL HT204" for some reason no sellers use the term Nibbler and that gets you the powered types generally.


I don't know if diamond discs are good for plastic, they are recommended for cutting hard and abrasive materials, like e.g. ceramics. My favorite cutting discs are the Fiberglass Reinforced Cut Off Wheel 32mm. Those disks can cut through almost anything, including metals. They wear in diameter during time, but they are very cheap, like $10 for a pack of 100pcs.

This is the first link returned when searching for "dremel accessories usage": https://blueroofdesigns.com/2009/07/29/what-are-these-dremel-thingies-for/

Diamond discs will tend to melt plastics. The abrasive wheels are fine with some plastics but tend to melt badly on a lot. Much as it is obvious the thing to avoid with plastics is heat. Also to rough on some with router type bits will chip the face of what you are doing.

Re aluminium nibblers are great. The couple of shots below are of a conversion from a Belden to IEC socket on my old 740B I did recently. The file was mainly to remove any burrs on the edge.
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2018, 11:30:40 pm »
I have got these:

https://www.banggood.com/220V-72W-Micro-Electric-Hand-Drill-Adjustable-Variable-Speed-Electric-Drill-p-1110910.html
https://www.banggood.com/10pcs-Diamond-Saw-Discs-Wheel-Blade-Rotary-Tool-Set-For-Dremel-p-936102.html
https://www.banggood.com/3Pcs-14-Inch-Hex-Shank-HSS-Titanium-Coated-Step-Drill-Bit-Set-3-124-124-20mm-p-1003275.html

and I think they will be enough for electronics enclosures. What do you think?

Let's hope they'll cut-it.
:)

All I can talk is from my own limited experience. I am not a mechanic, and I rarely cut ABS, so I can not give you an informed advice. Also, my Dremels are slightly different than your pick: they are 5000-33000/min, 130W for Dremel I 400 Digital, and respectively 8000-30000/min, 140W for the no name one (actually it has a sticker with the name Power Action). Both have the max diameter of 3.2mm, and both have small pin-chucks. Instead, the tool in the link have a bigger key-chuck, 72W and 5000-8500 RPM.

About the step drill bits, yes they are also very useful for general drilling big holes in sheets of various material, but they are very big and heavy. I don't think it's possible to use them at many thousands of RPM. AFAIK, step drill bits are for drilling machines with much lower RPMs, like hundreds of RPM, instead of thousands.

I don't know if diamond discs are good for plastic, they are recommended for cutting hard and abrasive materials, like e.g. ceramics. My favorite cutting discs are the Fiberglass Reinforced Cut Off Wheel 32mm. Those disks can cut through almost anything, including metals. They wear in diameter during time, but they are very cheap, like $10 for a pack of 100pcs.

This is the first link returned when searching for "dremel accessories usage": https://blueroofdesigns.com/2009/07/29/what-are-these-dremel-thingies-for/


I want to drill some holes in the concrete walls to put my shelves for my lab, will these help? I don't know about such topics.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2018, 11:35:12 pm »
I want to drill some holes in the concrete walls to put my shelves for my lab, will these help? I don't know about such topics.
No, you need carbide tipped masonry drill-bits (and preferably a hammer-drill).
Often "tapcon cement screws" (blue colored) are sold with the masonary bits.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2018, 11:42:36 pm »
..could be he made an assumption that concrete drilling requires high-speed?  :-//  (maybe an excuse to tell the wife he needs a $200 dremel)
 

Offline SirAlucard

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2018, 11:47:20 pm »
Diamond discs will tend to melt plastics. The abrasive wheels are fine with some plastics but tend to melt badly on a lot. Much as it is obvious the thing to avoid with plastics is heat. Also to rough on some with router type bits will chip the face of what you are doing.

If your melting plastic your rpm setting is to high, and your pushing to hard. When it comes to plastics an abrasive set at slow speed and going slowly with it will help a lot. To fast or to much pressure and you'll end up melting it. Like with anything just take your time and you'll be golden, but yea no need for a more expensive diamond disk.
 

Offline Back2Volts

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2018, 02:21:57 am »
... Freehanding with Proxxon router table worked faster and cleaner...

Do you know the model of that router table?   Or a link ?
 

Online KL27x

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2018, 03:38:32 am »
I made it after looking at dozens of builds, online. And Matthias Wandel's router table lift is about 1000x better than anything else that I have ever seen. Simple and effective. And it tilts! (The tilt is absolutely wonderful for cutting FR-4. With a normal 3mm endmil tilted 45 degrees, you can score FR-4 with a 90 degree V groove. Eats FR-4 for lunch).

Matthias Wandel's Tilting Router Lift Build
http://woodgears.ca/router_lift/index.html

Essentially, mine is a pretty close (but crude) copy to this, minus the gear lifting mechanism. For a rotary tool, it's easy enough to just lift it yourself, lol. Plywood isn't very sexy, but it is way more rigid than any molded plastic and sheet metal rotary tool router table you can buy off-the-shelf.

It's just bolted to the underside of a Harbor Freight drill press table. Loosen the knob on the back, and you can move the whole tool up/down. Loosen the knobs on the sides and you can tilt the entire tool. I made a pretty mediocre "Instructable," years ago. Basically, I took a few pics while making it, is all, then put them up with a bunch of boring words. It looks like it's still viewable. This was done before I added the legs and the tilt mechanism, which was eezy peezy to add-on after the fact. I link it so you can see the drill press table and the wooden Proxxon tool mount. I paid $30.00 for the table, and it is perfect. Other than those specific things, the top link to Matthias's webpage is what you want to see.

Crummy Pictures of my Proxxon Router Table Build:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Garbage-Can-Dremel-Router-Table/

In a way, perhaps it is better to see the simplified version, first. After you have this working, the tilt mechanism is easier to figure out. You just unscrew the "back plate" from the table and reattach it with just hinges on the front. Then affix two slotted arbors* to the table, right up against either side of the plate. These arbors are the part that must be solidly bolted to the underside of the table; the hinges can be gimpy as heck. Then you attach a length of threaded rod to the back of the "back plate" which extends out either side to slide through the curved slot in the arbors and make some knobs to lock it in place in any position thru the arc.

*Arbor might be the wrong word. I know there's a word for a plate with an arc cut in it for a bolt to slide around in.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:34:38 am by KL27x »
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2018, 06:13:08 am »

I want to drill some holes in the concrete walls to put my shelves for my lab, will these help? I don't know about such topics.

I don't see anything in this thread useful for mounting shelves. I'd suggest a drill with a "hammer" action and a good masonry bit. That's what I use.

I don't have a drill like that and I am in a distant place now, hard to get one. So the only thing I have is the hand drill I linked above with some bits that came with it. I don't know if the bits are for iron or concrete.
 

Offline ikrase

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2018, 06:38:02 am »
If you don't have access to a hammer drill an ordinary *sturdy* handheld drill will do. You need masonry bits, some cooling water, and to go slowly while using pressure.

https://goo.gl/images/1kSxo2


You also may be able to get star drill to hammer by hand.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2018, 06:43:03 am »
If you don't have access to a hammer drill an ordinary *sturdy* handheld drill will do. You need masonry bits, some cooling water, and to go slowly while using pressure.

https://goo.gl/images/1kSxo2


You also may be able to get star drill to hammer by hand.

unfortunately I only have the one I linked above. I wonder if it works if I went slow. I need to dig around 12 holes not just one.
 

Offline boffin

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Re: Dremel / Dremel like device?
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2018, 07:41:13 am »
For PCBs I have one of these.  It looks like it's much bigger than it really is, about 35cm tall (that's 13" for those three countries that refuse to modernize).
It's not the best, with not a lot of torque, but it's very solid, and much better than a dremel and its wobbly stand. 



From a jewelry making supply company called Rio Grande
https://products.riogrande.com/products/330012IN1.jpg

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