Author Topic: Dumb question  (Read 5228 times)

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Offline NexusKoolaid

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2018, 11:34:10 pm »
I called you an arrogant twat, and stand by the assertion because you've made a huge leap of logic in order to assume my level of knowledge based on a few posts.

Well, to be fair, you presented no indication of your level of experience or expertise, AND you posted your question in a portion of the forum intended for beginners, which you are clearly not.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 12:39:41 am »
Either way, personal attacks are expressly prohibited, and calling someone an arrogant twat is getting pretty close to a personal attack.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 01:21:38 am »
The link doesn't work for me, but I don't understand your question.  If you are asking if you can use a Cockcroft-Walton multiplier (commonly called a voltage multiplier) to convert mains voltage to low current 600 volt DC then the answer is yes.  If you think you need 600 volts as the first step in generation of a much higher voltage then I recommend that you sit back and think some more.  You should understand the basic concept, insulation, spark gaps, field concentration and a number of other concepts better than you seem to before proceeding.
Well, I live in Canada. North American voltage isn't high enough to make a WC ionizer work, even with an abundance of stages. I've been trying to come up with an economical way of doubling or more the mains voltage before putting it into the multiplier.

I've attached a picture of the eBay thing I tried to link earlier.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Voltage multipliers will happily take US 120V to several thousand volts.  Back in the days of CRTs modules to do this we're widely available and inexpensive.  I recall 4000 volts was one standard, which should be enough to operate many ionizers.

I don't know why you have not been successful with this configuration.  There are several traps, which I don't recall at the moment.

I would again caution you to think carefully about working with these higher voltages.  A new world again from the 600 volts of your three phase you are familiar with.  Your chances of killing yourself are really pretty low, albeit higher than many are comfortable with.  But the chances of a painful incident are pretty high.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2018, 01:39:24 am »
I called you an arrogant twat, and stand by the assertion because you've made a huge leap of logic in order to assume my level of knowledge based on a few posts.

Well, to be fair, you presented no indication of your level of experience or expertise,
That point is one I must agree with.

GadgetBoy - Please understand we get every level of skill posting on this forum - and the only way we can judge anyone's competence is by what is shared here.  You could have spent 30 years in IC fabrication - but if you don't say anything, then you are not being fair if you shoot someone down for commenting about current limit of bond wires.

As you will appreciate, when people start talking about 3 digit voltages and higher, most members here start treading carefully - as they should.  If we don't know your background, we ARE going to be conservative and sometimes that will carry with it some strongly expressed opinion - just to make sure the significance of what is being said hits home.  We cannot look over your shoulder, so our advice has to strongly err on the side of safety.  We would rather know you were appropriately challenged about your intentions (based on what we know of you) than make assumptions about your skills and have you die as a result.

We NOW know you have sufficient knowledge to understand the risks involved ... and I ask: If you were presented with someone with the same sort of questions and lack of background as you presented to us, would you have been any less diligent in responding with a safety and knowledge oriented approach?


Quote
AND you posted your question in a portion of the forum intended for beginners, which you are clearly not.
What is the definition of "Beginner"?

Certainly, someone who has little or no experience in electronics qualifies, but I would suggest it is just as appropriate for someone who is not well versed in a particular strand.

Take me for example.  The apex of my experience with RF is being able to SWR in 27MHz CB radio antennae - so if I had an RF question, I'd be considering the Beginner's section for that.
 
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Offline GadgetBoyTopic starter

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2018, 04:18:24 am »


We NOW know you have sufficient knowledge to understand the risks involved ... and I ask: If you were presented with someone with the same sort of questions and lack of background as you presented to us, would you have been any less diligent in responding with a safety and knowledge oriented approach?

Naturally, but I would have been far less condescending.

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Offline Brumby

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2018, 04:41:06 am »
I can appreciate that - but we have a very wide range of personalities.  From grumpy old codgers to the quiet and reserved.  You also have to watch out for communication issues that can arise from cultural backgrounds and non natives of the English language.  This is a true global community.

While people rarely set out to be offensive, sometimes a point is made quite strongly and, on occasions, it can be useful to have a thick skin.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2018, 08:31:44 am »
A quick search for voltage multiplier modules returns dozens of inexpensive results with voltages that go far beyond anything you could want.

But here, as everywhere, numbers are your friend.  The can supply only tiny currents at these voltages.  How much current does your io izer need?  Multiply your proposed current and voltage to get the power consumption.  Something tells me you are asking for a lot of power.  (A lot is contextually defined, but here means more than must voltage multipliers are designed to provide)
 

Offline GadgetBoyTopic starter

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2018, 08:33:27 am »
A quick search for voltage multiplier modules returns dozens of inexpensive results with voltages that go far beyond anything you could want.

But here, as everywhere, numbers are your friend.  The can supply only tiny currents at these voltages.  How much current does your io izer need?  Multiply your proposed current and voltage to get the power consumption.  Something tells me you are asking for a lot of power.  (A lot is contextually defined, but here means more than must voltage multipliers are designed to provide)
A CW ionizer uses micro Watts. Maybe even Nano Watts. They use insanely little power.

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Online macboy

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2018, 07:46:53 pm »
Remember that the voltage or emf induced in a transformer winding is the time derivative of the flux linked in the winding by the core.  At a fixed frequency, the emf is (2 pi)x(f)x(peak flux).  The linked flux is the cross-section area multiplied by the (flux density = B field), multiplied by the number of turns.  For typical iron alloys, the B value at core saturation is about 2 Tesla.  That limits the AC voltage on the winding:  if the transformer is designed to handle 120 V on a primary winding (5 x N turns), it cannot handle 120 V on a winding of only N turns.
I wish it were easier to enter equations here.
You can use LaTeX for equations

\$ V=\sqrt{2}\cdot \pi\cdot f\cdot N\cdot \phi_{max} \$
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dumb question
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2018, 08:21:45 pm »
Years ago I took apart an ionizer. It used a CW multiplier connected directly to the 120VAC input and feeding a needle for the output. There was no transformer in it at all. Seems like it had about 15 stages but I couldn't swear to it, it's been a long time.
 


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