Author Topic: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!  (Read 54568 times)

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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2016, 08:01:50 pm »
You must remember what measuring equipment was used at the time.
Thank you for sharing. I have read allot about Heathkit products that people have used for years in restoring vintage radios & amplifiers.
Thanks again!

Good list from oldway.  I forgot about Heathkits

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HEATHKIT-IT-11-/122028444079?hash=item1c697649af:g:7OYAAOSwNuxXcUwl

If I had the space I would probably start bidding on this - really cool
Nice!!!
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2016, 10:48:28 pm »
Perfectly logical sequence to follow. Thank you for sharing all those links, we are starting out and it's very exciting receiving all your information. Just fantastic. I think it's time to start a folder and print this information to be used as a bench reference.

Is it recommended to have digital & analog volt meters?
What device checks the total wattage & shows even and odd harmonics readings?

I'll simplify this as best as I can.

Wattage is calculated as a measurement of the output voltage going into a specific impedance, a digital multimeter is fine for this. A non reactive dummy load is ideal for this test and also working on amps in general.

Analog meters are not required but useful sometimes for either loading the circuit under test or to see a visual representation of measurement fluctuations. Digital multimeters are in most cases faster to use to and visually take a reading, but it's entirely up to the individual.

To measure harmonics in the frequency domain you would commonly use a spectrum analyzer. You can also use frequency selective voltmeters and other analyzers.

Don't get hung up on specific's. I did a rough calculation, you can start with spending about $200 on secondhand gear and have most bases covered if you go the software route for spectrum analyzer. Or you can spend thousands on a super nice analyzers that will sit there an gather dust.

Again it's easy buying test equipment, the hard work is putting them to use and learning how to build your projects when you have no experience. $1600 to convert a few hundred dollars of amp seems excessive to me.

When you see the wall of test gear some people own remember they have spent a lifetime of gathering and restoring and slowly upgrading. The modern equivalent seems to be just blowing cash and having no idea of what you are buying or doing, don't fall into the latter category.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline rstofer

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2016, 11:28:29 pm »
Some kind of audio signal generator.  There are kits, there are plans, maybe even some on eBay.  You don't need something that goes way up in frequency - 40 kHz is more than enough.  Twenty kHz is probably adequate.

Simpson 260 is the classic V-O-M analog meter and I have a couple.  Triplet makes a similar model but I don't remember the part number.  In any event, these 260's are all over eBay.  I like analog meters when I want to see things change.  Like the voltage of a car battery when I crank the starter.  Or the voltage drop between the battery and the line input to the starter.  Things where a DMM will still be converting long after the event is over.  If you are buying used, look for the model with the mirrored scale - it helps eliminate parallax errors when trying to get precision results.

I like analog scopes and I have a Tek 485 that I bought off eBay for a couple of hundred bucks.  I've had it about 12 years and it still works well.  HOWEVER...  I bought a Rigol DS1054Z and it will be my most used scope primarily for the features.  If I need to look at signals over 50 MHz or so, I will use the 485.  Hack the thing (directions elsewhere) and get 100 MHz of bandwidth and serial decoding all in a $400 scope.  More than adequate for most hobby needs.  Four channels is great for those of us dealing with digital buses.  Not so terribly important for audio work.  Still, who knows where this hobby goes...

Any DMM will probably work - I bought a couple of EEVBlog badged DMMs just to support the cause and because the branding is cool.  These are fairly expensive meters but they will last a lifetime.  I gave one to my grandson.  I also have one of the very expensive Flukes (because I could) and a Vichy impersonation (still a very nice meter) but the EEVBlog meter is on my bench.  I also bought a half dozen of the cheap Harbor Freight meters.  I'm not sure what to think of them but I gave my grandson 3 of them to do a science fair project demonstrating Ohm's law.  He won...  Guess the judges liked knobs and readouts...

http://www.eevblog.com/store/

I just bought a Hakko FX880D, also for my grandson, and it looked like a really nice unit.  I saw one of his projects and the soldering was excellent.  Personally, I have a Hakko 936 but they are out of production.

For cutters and pliers, I bought a set from Xcelite - they are pricey but they are exactly the right tools for the job.  You can probably guess where they went...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IU2KRS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think a magnifying visor is critical.  I'm getting old:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPWPRK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You may, or may not, want to increase the magnification with a lens change.  The problem is that the focal length changes.  I have another visor with the higher magnification but I'll let you guess where it wound up.

The list could be longer but this should give you something to think about.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 11:30:45 pm by rstofer »
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2016, 12:54:39 am »
Perfectly logical sequence to follow. Thank you for sharing all those links, we are starting out and it's very exciting receiving all your information. Just fantastic. I think it's time to start a folder and print this information to be used as a bench reference.

Is it recommended to have digital & analog volt meters?
What device checks the total wattage & shows even and odd harmonics readings?

I'll simplify this as best as I can.

Wattage is calculated as a measurement of the output voltage going into a specific impedance, a digital multimeter is fine for this. A non reactive dummy load is ideal for this test and also working on amps in general.

Analog meters are not required but useful sometimes for either loading the circuit under test or to see a visual representation of measurement fluctuations. Digital multimeters are in most cases faster to use to and visually take a reading, but it's entirely up to the individual.

To measure harmonics in the frequency domain you would commonly use a spectrum analyzer. You can also use frequency selective voltmeters and other analyzers.

Don't get hung up on specific's. I did a rough calculation, you can start with spending about $200 on secondhand gear and have most bases covered if you go the software route for spectrum analyzer. Or you can spend thousands on a super nice analyzers that will sit there an gather dust.

Again it's easy buying test equipment, the hard work is putting them to use and learning how to build your projects when you have no experience. $1600 to convert a few hundred dollars of amp seems excessive to me.

When you see the wall of test gear some people own remember they have spent a lifetime of gathering and restoring and slowly upgrading. The modern equivalent seems to be just blowing cash and having no idea of what you are buying or doing, don't fall into the latter category.
Your are right, cutting the budget in half will help greatly! It helps greatly when someone is explaining what is really needed for this type of guitar audio work. It has been an real eye opener.

Thanks again!
 

Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2016, 01:05:20 am »
Some kind of audio signal generator.  There are kits, there are plans, maybe even some on eBay.  You don't need something that goes way up in frequency - 40 kHz is more than enough.  Twenty kHz is probably adequate.

Simpson 260 is the classic V-O-M analog meter and I have a couple.  Triplet makes a similar model but I don't remember the part number.  In any event, these 260's are all over eBay.  I like analog meters when I want to see things change.  Like the voltage of a car battery when I crank the starter.  Or the voltage drop between the battery and the line input to the starter.  Things where a DMM will still be converting long after the event is over.  If you are buying used, look for the model with the mirrored scale - it helps eliminate parallax errors when trying to get precision results.

I like analog scopes and I have a Tek 485 that I bought off eBay for a couple of hundred bucks.  I've had it about 12 years and it still works well.  HOWEVER...  I bought a Rigol DS1054Z and it will be my most used scope primarily for the features.  If I need to look at signals over 50 MHz or so, I will use the 485.  Hack the thing (directions elsewhere) and get 100 MHz of bandwidth and serial decoding all in a $400 scope.  More than adequate for most hobby needs.  Four channels is great for those of us dealing with digital buses.  Not so terribly important for audio work.  Still, who knows where this hobby goes...

Any DMM will probably work - I bought a couple of EEVBlog badged DMMs just to support the cause and because the branding is cool.  These are fairly expensive meters but they will last a lifetime.  I gave one to my grandson.  I also have one of the very expensive Flukes (because I could) and a Vichy impersonation (still a very nice meter) but the EEVBlog meter is on my bench.  I also bought a half dozen of the cheap Harbor Freight meters.  I'm not sure what to think of them but I gave my grandson 3 of them to do a science fair project demonstrating Ohm's law.  He won...  Guess the judges liked knobs and readouts...

http://www.eevblog.com/store/

I just bought a Hakko FX880D, also for my grandson, and it looked like a really nice unit.  I saw one of his projects and the soldering was excellent.  Personally, I have a Hakko 936 but they are out of production.

For cutters and pliers, I bought a set from Xcelite - they are pricey but they are exactly the right tools for the job.  You can probably guess where they went...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IU2KRS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think a magnifying visor is critical.  I'm getting old:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPWPRK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You may, or may not, want to increase the magnification with a lens change.  The problem is that the focal length changes.  I have another visor with the higher magnification but I'll let you guess where it wound up.

The list could be longer but this should give you something to think about.
Hello, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. Tell your grandson to go for the Gold and don't hold back on projects, because he will be able to ask you the most important question "why" and you will able to explain it to him. Now that's a Blessing.

I remember the problem about the focal length changing, the more powerful lens on my head set the closer I had to get to the work.

All the best!
 

Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2016, 02:38:05 am »
Perfectly logical sequence to follow. Thank you for sharing all those links, we are starting out and it's very exciting receiving all your information. Just fantastic. I think it's time to start a folder and print this information to be used as a bench reference.

Is it recommended to have digital & analog volt meters?
What device checks the total wattage & shows even and odd harmonics readings?

I'll simplify this as best as I can.

Wattage is calculated as a measurement of the output voltage going into a specific impedance, a digital multimeter is fine for this. A non reactive dummy load is ideal for this test and also working on amps in general.

Analog meters are not required but useful sometimes for either loading the circuit under test or to see a visual representation of measurement fluctuations. Digital multimeters are in most cases faster to use to and visually take a reading, but it's entirely up to the individual.

To measure harmonics in the frequency domain you would commonly use a spectrum analyzer. You can also use frequency selective voltmeters and other analyzers.

Don't get hung up on specific's. I did a rough calculation, you can start with spending about $200 on secondhand gear and have most bases covered if you go the software route for spectrum analyzer. Or you can spend thousands on a super nice analyzers that will sit there an gather dust.

Again it's easy buying test equipment, the hard work is putting them to use and learning how to build your projects when you have no experience. $1600 to convert a few hundred dollars of amp seems excessive to me.

When you see the wall of test gear some people own remember they have spent a lifetime of gathering and restoring and slowly upgrading. The modern equivalent seems to be just blowing cash and having no idea of what you are buying or doing, don't fall into the latter category.
Your are right, cutting the budget in half will help greatly! It helps greatly when someone is explaining what is really needed for this type of guitar audio work. It has been an real eye opener.

Thanks again!


I just found this about when it comes to software and spectrum analyzers:
1.
2.

It looks like the best value for our guitar amp projects.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2016, 04:11:42 am »

I just found this about when it comes to software and spectrum analyzers:
1.
2.

It looks like the best value for our guitar amp projects.

Can you tell us what "value" is?  Please include links.  Also your videos are in the wrong order  - his 30th is on top and his 21st is on bottom.  So viewers look at them in the wrong order.

Here is what I think are the links

http://www.artalabs.hr/index.htm

Could not find how much a license costs.

And the hardware (maybe)

https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarlett-Audio-Interface-Tools/dp/B01E6T56CM/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1467603017&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=scarllet+2i2

Interesting stuff,  I wonder how the Rigol would stand up to this test?
You can get some good Android tablets for $50 and they can be dedicated to a chore.

Can I make a request.  After you get your list together, start a new topic with a title something like:

"My audio amp repair test equipment list - Opinions ? "
(or you can re-title this one)

This has been a good topic with lots of good answers.   So I added a link to this in Beginners.  I think the reason is you had an object in mind - guitar amps.  Most people have no goal so the answers go all over the place.  Keep up the good work and I hope you will make your own videos and let us know.

I do not know if this has been listed
https://www.amazon.com/-5000-Handheld-LCR-Meter-accessories/dp/B00S298KJO/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1467604331&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=lcr+meter+de-5000

If I was to get a LCR meter this would be the one because I do not have space for a Heathkit.
Caps will be a major repair item so do not go cheap on this.

YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2016, 04:53:04 am »

I just found this about when it comes to software and spectrum analyzers:
1.
2.

It looks like the best value for our guitar amp projects.

Can you tell us what "value" is?  Please include links.  Also your videos are in the wrong order  - his 30th is on top and his 21st is on bottom.  So viewers look at them in the wrong order.

Here is what I think are the links

http://www.artalabs.hr/index.htm

Could not find how much a license costs.

And the hardware (maybe)

https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarlett-Audio-Interface-Tools/dp/B01E6T56CM/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1467603017&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=scarllet+2i2

Interesting stuff,  I wonder how the Rigol would stand up to this test?
You can get some good Android tablets for $50 and they can be dedicated to a chore.

Can I make a request.  After you get your list together, start a new topic with a title something like:

"My audio amp repair test equipment list - Opinions ? "
(or you can re-title this one)

This has been a good topic with lots of good answers.   So I added a link to this in Beginners.  I think the reason is you had an object in mind - guitar amps.  Most people have no goal so the answers go all over the place.  Keep up the good work and I hope you will make your own videos and let us know.

I do not know if this has been listed
https://www.amazon.com/-5000-Handheld-LCR-Meter-accessories/dp/B00S298KJO/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1467604331&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=lcr+meter+de-5000

If I was to get a LCR meter this would be the one because I do not have space for a Heathkit.
Caps will be a major repair item so do not go cheap on this.

Great advice, we will definitely follow it. When we finally settle on the main pieces of equipment we will start a new topic as you stated to cover what we learned here to cover our cigar box & other guitar low power pre-amps and higher powered amp projects.

I just remembered watching this a few years back: EEVblog #137 - BK Precision 879B Handheld LCR Meter Review -

Looking at the price, you found the best buy when compared to this: https://www.amazon.com/Precision-879B-Display-Handheld-Universal/dp/B004O8Z8E2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467606823&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=BK+Precision+879B+4-1%2F2+digit+40%2C000+count+Dual+Display+LCZ%2FLCR+Meter+USB

Thank you for sharing your wisdom!!!
 

Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2016, 06:12:56 am »
I want to share this supplier we used for all manufacturing solutions at Westinghouse in the 1970's: EWD Solutions - http://www.testequity.com/categories/Component+Measurement/LCR+Impedance/

We bought everything from this company, you will find some fun items here!!! Get the latest catalog to find the highest quality for your test bench needs.

I would like to thank everyone here for helping us get a great start!!!

I just realized the original EWD Solutions company was quote, "EWD Solutions is pleased to announce that effective June 1, 2014 we were acquired by TestEquity LLC", just heart breaking. There were so many specialty tools that I ordered from them. You may still find some ideas there but it's not the same company.
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 11:36:21 am by finom1 »
 

Offline oldway

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2016, 08:06:47 am »
Some explanations on the list of instruments I have provided:

1) why a 20K / V multimeter? because all values on the old schematics were only valid with this kind of meter.

Tube circuits are high impedance and the measured value is far dependent on the internal resistance of the meter.
So only use a 20K/V multimeter.

2) The importance of the harmonic distortion in a guitar amplifier: if one wishes to focus exclusively on tube guitar amplifiers, it is not necessary to measure the harmonic distortion.

The guitar sound is not pleasant as it is and it is even profitable that the amplifier has a high distortion to "enrich" the sound.

I added a distortion meter to allow work on the Hi-Fi amplifiers too.

It should also be noted that the distortion of a tube amplifier is high enough in the range of 0.3 to 5%, which does not require to make high precision measurements.

Note that a distortion of about 5% or more is visible on the oscilloscope.

I definitively never should use a sound card of a computer with a tube amplifier, that's looking for troubles.

An unload output transformer can generate very high voltages that will blow your sound card for sure.

3) Capacitor Tester:
The main problem encountered with tube amplifiers, is that of capacitor that are leaking because they are subjected to high voltages and grid circuit is generally high impedance.

Any leakage causes a wrong polarization and a malfunction.

It is for this reason that modern RCL testers are not suitable because they test the capacitors at  low voltage and are unable to measure leakage.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 08:15:53 am by oldway »
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2016, 12:09:17 pm »
Some explanations on the list of instruments I have provided:

1) why a 20K / V multimeter? because all values on the old schematics were only valid with this kind of meter.

Tube circuits are high impedance and the measured value is far dependent on the internal resistance of the meter.
So only use a 20K/V multimeter.

2) The importance of the harmonic distortion in a guitar amplifier: if one wishes to focus exclusively on tube guitar amplifiers, it is not necessary to measure the harmonic distortion.

The guitar sound is not pleasant as it is and it is even profitable that the amplifier has a high distortion to "enrich" the sound.

I added a distortion meter to allow work on the Hi-Fi amplifiers too.

It should also be noted that the distortion of a tube amplifier is high enough in the range of 0.3 to 5%, which does not require to make high precision measurements.

Note that a distortion of about 5% or more is visible on the oscilloscope.

I definitively never should use a sound card of a computer with a tube amplifier, that's looking for troubles.

An unload output transformer can generate very high voltages that will blow your sound card for sure.

3) Capacitor Tester:
The main problem encountered with tube amplifiers, is that of capacitor that are leaking because they are subjected to high voltages and grid circuit is generally high impedance.

Any leakage causes a wrong polarization and a malfunction.

It is for this reason that modern RCL testers are not suitable because they test the capacitors at  low voltage and are unable to measure leakage.

Hello oldway,
1. Concerning item #1 above, I should buy the http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVO-8-Mark-5-With-Leather-Case-AVO-Leads-Excellent-Condition-100-Tested-/152126200918 and not a http://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-270-5-Extra-High-Accuracy-VOM-/331747041302?hash=item4d3daa2016:g:1aYAAOSwT~9Wiv6J analog volt meter?

The first meter will be a more accurate meter and will you see a movement in the needle any faster with the first meter?

2. Oldway, which capacitor tester should I buy that would be the most accurate? I am buy each piece of equipment once with my son, so pick the best: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=analog+capacitor+tester&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xvintage+capacitor+tester.TRS0&_nkw=vintage+capacitor+tester&_sacat=0

Thank you for sharing your wisdom here!!!
 

Offline nowlan

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2016, 01:10:33 pm »
Digging the magic eye on that heathkit, but will stick to my $20 esr meter.
 
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Offline rstofer

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2016, 02:26:39 pm »
That Simpson 270 is a fine meter.  Presumably it is an upgrade over the 260.  The 260s are adequate and cheaper but I wouldn't pass up the 270 if it fit in the budget.

The 260 dates back to 1939 and is only slightly changed over the decades.  Look for one in the movie "Apollo 13" - realistic for the era.
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2016, 03:03:39 pm »
That Simpson 270 is a fine meter.  Presumably it is an upgrade over the 260.  The 260s are adequate and cheaper but I wouldn't pass up the 270 if it fit in the budget.

The 260 dates back to 1939 and is only slightly changed over the decades.  Look for one in the movie "Apollo 13" - realistic for the era.
Thank you!
 

Offline R005T3r

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2016, 11:21:08 pm »
In my opinion the best combo would be:
1. combiscope. Analog scope + digital capabilities. 20/100 Mhz
2. power supply: use a cheap wall power supply, voltage selectable + a regulator
3. breadboard
4. signal generator: Rigol, base model
5. resistor kit
6. capacitor kit
7. thin wires. You can use rigid ethernet wires to wire up things...
8. inductors kits
9. dmm. Use a Uni-T one and you are fine.
10. LT spice. It's free.

Remember, the best tool you can get is the oscilloscope: you can read voltages, you can see signals, you can troubleshoot things, you can also test components with it... The second best tool you can get is a waveform gen: you generate signals and you are fine. The third best thing you can have is a multimeter with capacitance. When the times comes, you upgrade them and you take some interesting stuff, but as Now, your best bet is start and see what's interesting to you.

Why I didn't mention a spectrum analyzer? Well you won't need it in your life unless you play with RFs...
 
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Offline oldway

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2016, 12:15:04 am »
Hello oldway,
1. Concerning item #1 above, I should buy the http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVO-8-Mark-5-With-Leather-Case-AVO-Leads-Excellent-Condition-100-Tested-/152126200918 and not a http://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-270-5-Extra-High-Accuracy-VOM-/331747041302?hash=item4d3daa2016:g:1aYAAOSwT~9Wiv6J analog volt meter?

The first meter will be a more accurate meter and will you see a movement in the needle any faster with the first meter?

2. Oldway, which capacitor tester should I buy that would be the most accurate? I am buy each piece of equipment once with my son, so pick the best: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=analog+capacitor+tester&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xvintage+capacitor+tester.TRS0&_nkw=vintage+capacitor+tester&_sacat=0

Thank you for sharing your wisdom here!!!
1) In my opinion, the best Avometer is the model 8 Mk IV, that's the one I have. (I paid it 30€)
http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/avometersdata.html
A lot of others analog 20K/V multimeters may also be choosen.
Don't buy Vacuum Tube Volt Meter (VTVM), buy an old Fluke 75, it is far better.

2) You don't need nothing accurate for capacitor tester.
You don't need to measure ESR, it does not matter in tube circuits.
But you need the availability to test capacitors for leakage.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:17:29 am by oldway »
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2016, 12:27:38 am »
In my opinion the best combo would be:
1. combiscope. Analog scope + digital capabilities. 20/100 Mhz
2. power supply: use a cheap wall power supply, voltage selectable + a regulator
3. breadboard
4. signal generator: Rigol, base model
5. resistor kit
6. capacitor kit
7. thin wires. You can use rigid ethernet wires to wire up things...
8. inductors kits
9. dmm. Use a Uni-T one and you are fine.
10. LT spice. It's free.

Remember, the best tool you can get is the oscilloscope: you can read voltages, you can see signals, you can troubleshoot things, you can also test components with it... The second best tool you can get is a waveform gen: you generate signals and you are fine. The third best thing you can have is a multimeter with capacitance. When the times comes, you upgrade them and you take some interesting stuff, but as Now, your best bet is start and see what's interesting to you.

Why I didn't mention a spectrum analyzer? Well you won't need it in your life unless you play with RFs...
Thank you for sharing your list. There are people here with allot of wisdom to share!!!

Which one would you buy this oscillascope - or one from this list http://www.ebay.com/sch/Electrical-Test-Equipment/92074/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=oscilloscope+analog+tested&_sop=15

while keeping scope the price as close to $400 as possible?

Thank you.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2016, 12:49:28 am »
Well, that leads up back to the analog versus digital scope debate which is endless!  There is a current version of the topic running around right now.

I like analog scopes but the features of the digital scope just make the scope so much more worthwhile.  I don't want a scope "for parts" or "couldn't test" and, all in, I guess I would rather have a new scope with a warranty - all things being equal.  If the budget can stand the DS1054Z then that's what I would do.  And I did...

Now, if the budget was half that amount, a new digital scope would be right out the window.  In that case, I would look for a used analog scope and preferably one that is 'calibrated'.  But who knows if the 'calibration' is traceable?  It could as well be a joke.  Nevertheless, that's where I would head.  Something like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2215A-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Calibrated-Tested-Two-Probes-Power-Cord-/162126488109?hash=item25bf7de22d:g:moQAAOSwwo1Xeu17

I linked that particular scope because it was the first one I ran across on you linked page that was calibrated.  There's nothing special about it other than it is refurbished and calibrated.

I would have to add $30 for shipping.

At some point, by the time you get a decent and working analog scope, you are close to the cost of the DS1054Z and that's a compelling scope.  I certainly like mine!
 
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Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2016, 01:27:08 am »
Hello oldway,
1. Concerning item #1 above, I should buy the http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVO-8-Mark-5-With-Leather-Case-AVO-Leads-Excellent-Condition-100-Tested-/152126200918 and not a http://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-270-5-Extra-High-Accuracy-VOM-/331747041302?hash=item4d3daa2016:g:1aYAAOSwT~9Wiv6J analog volt meter?

The first meter will be a more accurate meter and will you see a movement in the needle any faster with the first meter?

2. Oldway, which capacitor tester should I buy that would be the most accurate? I am buy each piece of equipment once with my son, so pick the best: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=analog+capacitor+tester&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xvintage+capacitor+tester.TRS0&_nkw=vintage+capacitor+tester&_sacat=0

Thank you for sharing your wisdom here!!!
1) In my opinion, the best Avometer is the model 8 Mk IV, that's the one I have. (I paid it 30€)
http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/avometersdata.html
A lot of others analog 20K/V multimeters may also be choosen.
Don't buy Vacuum Tube Volt Meter (VTVM), buy an old Fluke 75, it is far better.

2) You don't need nothing accurate for capacitor tester.
You don't need to measure ESR, it does not matter in tube circuits.
But you need the availability to test capacitors for leakage.
Hello Oldway,
That link is so cool. There is a wealth of history there!!!

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us!!!

I looked at your meter, I think it would look great on our work bench.

Great advice, thanks again. 
 

Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2016, 01:33:14 am »
Well, that leads up back to the analog versus digital scope debate which is endless!  There is a current version of the topic running around right now.

I like analog scopes but the features of the digital scope just make the scope so much more worthwhile.  I don't want a scope "for parts" or "couldn't test" and, all in, I guess I would rather have a new scope with a warranty - all things being equal.  If the budget can stand the DS1054Z then that's what I would do.  And I did...

Now, if the budget was half that amount, a new digital scope would be right out the window.  In that case, I would look for a used analog scope and preferably one that is 'calibrated'.  But who knows if the 'calibration' is traceable?  It could as well be a joke.  Nevertheless, that's where I would head.  Something like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2215A-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Calibrated-Tested-Two-Probes-Power-Cord-/162126488109?hash=item25bf7de22d:g:moQAAOSwwo1Xeu17

I linked that particular scope because it was the first one I ran across on you linked page that was calibrated.  There's nothing special about it other than it is refurbished and calibrated.

I would have to add $30 for shipping.

At some point, by the time you get a decent and working analog scope, you are close to the cost of the DS1054Z and that's a compelling scope.  I certainly like mine!

Thank you for sharing your ideas and what matters most for this type of guitar amplifier work. Keep the ideas flowing.

Thanks again.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2016, 02:30:16 am »

Thank you for sharing your ideas and what matters most for this type of guitar amplifier work. Keep the ideas flowing.

Thanks again.

I don't want to take credit where none is due.  I know absolutely nothing about guitar amplifiers.  About 60 years ago I built a Heathkit 8W tube-type amplifier and that is the extent of my time with audio.

I have some equipment and I know a wee bit about electronics but that's about it.

Good luck with your projects!
 

Offline R005T3r

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2016, 08:14:49 am »
Well, that leads up back to the analog versus digital scope debate which is endless!  There is a current version of the topic running around right now.

I like analog scopes but the features of the digital scope just make the scope so much more worthwhile.  I don't want a scope "for parts" or "couldn't test" and, all in, I guess I would rather have a new scope with a warranty - all things being equal.  If the budget can stand the DS1054Z then that's what I would do.  And I did...

I've came up with a combiscope oscilloscope, because NOW his best bet is to start actually doing some projects. So, instead of bugging out with what is the best instrument or what is the best "convenient" one, the OP should tell us what he's planning to do, what are his interests in electronics (I hardly doubt that he's interested in radars anymore). Are you intended to make only guitar amplifiers and other instrument-oriented projects? If so, an oscilloscope like the DS1054Z is useless  because you will never use it's full bandwidth.

 
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Offline oldway

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2016, 08:27:40 am »
At the time of the Beatles, I was making guitar amplifiers for a group of rock musicians.

I had a very simple and basic measurement equipment because this kind of amplifiers is not demanding.

It is precisely this lack of quality and performance that did, and still do, that these amplifiers have a different sound from that of modern transistors amplifiers.

Wanting to make better amplifiers (distortion and bandwidth) is exactly the mistake not to do.

Why use a completely outdated technology if it is to try to do the same as a 50 bucks actual amplifier "made in PRC" ?

If you want to be consistent, one must use the same measuring devices as those employed at the time.

There is moreover an advantage in that: the tubes measuring devices were much reliable for use with circuits where there were very high voltages (several hundred volts), whereas modern devices are not provided for such accidental overloads.

Of course, you can also use updated high end measuring equipments.

But that does not respect the philosophy and purpose of your project.

Regarding the purchase of these old measuring equipment, you must have patience and look for bargains.

You can certainly buy at very low prices or even get them for free.

The more expensive item is probably the tube tester...(about 200 US§)

NB: the scope I used in this time was a heathkit io-12e....NOT A RIGOL DS1054Z... :-DD

What I had in this time:

Sine square wave generator
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/mble_bem004_bem_004.html

Multimeters
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hioki_multimeter_af105.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hansen_multimeter_uv_47.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html

Oscilloscope
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_laboratory_oscilloscope_i.html
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 09:33:51 am by oldway »
 

Offline finom1Topic starter

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Re: Equip your electronics bench- Help!!!
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2016, 10:02:47 am »
Well, that leads up back to the analog versus digital scope debate which is endless!  There is a current version of the topic running around right now.

I like analog scopes but the features of the digital scope just make the scope so much more worthwhile.  I don't want a scope "for parts" or "couldn't test" and, all in, I guess I would rather have a new scope with a warranty - all things being equal.  If the budget can stand the DS1054Z then that's what I would do.  And I did...

I've came up with a combiscope oscilloscope, because NOW his best bet is to start actually doing some projects. So, instead of bugging out with what is the best instrument or what is the best "convenient" one, the OP should tell us what he's planning to do, what are his interests in electronics (I hardly doubt that he's interested in radars anymore). Are you intended to make only guitar amplifiers and other instrument-oriented projects? If so, an oscilloscope like the DS1054Z is useless  because you will never use it's full bandwidth.
Hello R005T3r,
I want to personally thank you for sharing here. Because of your valuable input and others, we sat down and made a list of what our "projects goal" in life at this time is:
1. Have a test bench that is designed & equipped specifically to completely checking all components and parameters of our projects, "Vacuum Tube Amplifiers".
2. We would like to "restore & modify" vintage Tube Amplifiers for the purpose of turning them into "guitar amplifiers".
3. Some examples would be:
A.
B.
C.
D.
E.

I hope this examples help clarify what we are expecting from our test bench equipment to do now!

Any thought would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.
 


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