Author Topic: Extended characters?  (Read 7405 times)

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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Extended characters?
« on: August 27, 2016, 02:16:13 am »
Did... I just see a mu?  :scared: :scared:

µ ?

( ?° ?? ?°)

Unicode?  Don't push my luck? ;D


Well... degrees and mu, it's a start I guess  :horse:


Tim
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 02:24:54 am by T3sl4co1l »
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Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 02:22:43 am »
Thats odd, in the notification email some of those carachters looked like a face but not in the post.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2016, 02:23:35 am »
and the ohm is a questionmark. Maybe because I am forcing a particular font on the browser.
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Offline Galaxyrise

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 02:26:08 am »
µ has worked forever, I think.  I first noticed it with the µCurrent posts (like this one.) I don't know why µ is special... it's up in the same character range as ? (capital omega).
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Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2016, 02:27:18 am »
could it be something to do what is available in the ASCII set ? Or simply that all fonts go so far but not all.
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Offline Aodhan145

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2016, 02:29:45 am »
? ohm seems to work for me.
[ahaha never mind it turned into a question mark]
 

Offline Galaxyrise

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2016, 02:30:58 am »
? ohm seems to work for me.
[ahaha never mind it turned into a question mark]
Yep! It works when you're typing up the post, but get's elided by the forum software. Many people have fallen into that trap :)
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Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2016, 02:47:29 am »
Yet it shows on the notification email
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2016, 10:04:51 am »
The page announces that it is outputting UTF-8

Quote
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/>

However, the data itself may be getting munged by the forum (i.e., converted to ASCII, Windows 1252, etc.).
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Offline helius

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 11:58:58 am »
The page announces that it is outputting UTF-8

Quote
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/>

However, the data itself may be getting munged by the forum (i.e., converted to ASCII, Windows 1252, etc.).

The forum loads a script that tries to convert anything, Lord to anything, Lord:

Code: [Select]
String.prototype.php_to8bit = function()
{
    if (smf_charset == 'UTF-8')
    {
        var n, sReturn = '';
        for (var i = 0, iTextLen = this.length; i < iTextLen; i++)
        {
            n = this.charCodeAt(i);
            if (n < 128)
                sReturn += String.fromCharCode(n)
            else if (n < 2048)
                sReturn += String.fromCharCode(192 | n>>6) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n & 63);
            else if (n < 65536)
                sReturn += String.fromCharCode(224 | n>>12) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n>>6 & 63) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n & 63);
            else
                sReturn += String.fromCharCode(240 | n>>18) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n>>12 & 63) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n>>6 & 63) + String.fromCharCode(128 | n & 63);
        }
        return sReturn;
    } else if (this.oCharsetConversion.from.length == 0)
    {
        switch (smf_charset)
        {
        case'ISO-8859-1':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\xa0-\xff',
                to: '\xa0-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'ISO-8859-2':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\xa0\u0104\u02d8\u0141\xa4\u013d\u015a\xa7\xa8\u0160\u015e\u0164\u0179\xad\u017d\u017b\xb0\u0105\u02db\u0142\xb4\u013e\u015b\u02c7\xb8\u0161\u015f\u0165\u017a\u02dd\u017e\u017c\u0154\xc1\xc2\u0102\xc4\u0139\u0106\xc7\u010c\xc9\u0118\xcb\u011a\xcd\xce\u010e\u0110\u0143\u0147\xd3\xd4\u0150\xd6\xd7\u0158\u016e\xda\u0170\xdc\xdd\u0162\xdf\u0155\xe1\xe2\u0103\xe4\u013a\u0107\xe7\u010d\xe9\u0119\xeb\u011b\xed\xee\u010f\u0111\u0144\u0148\xf3\xf4\u0151\xf6\xf7\u0159\u016f\xfa\u0171\xfc\xfd\u0163\u02d9',
                to: '\xa0-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'ISO-8859-5':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\xa0\u0401-\u040c\xad\u040e-\u044f\u2116\u0451-\u045c\xa7\u045e\u045f',
                to: '\xa0-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'ISO-8859-9':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\xa0-\xcf\u011e\xd1-\xdc\u0130\u015e\xdf-\xef\u011f\xf1-\xfc\u0131\u015f\xff',
                to: '\xa0-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'ISO-8859-15':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\xa0-\xa3\u20ac\xa5\u0160\xa7\u0161\xa9-\xb3\u017d\xb5-\xb7\u017e\xb9-\xbb\u0152\u0153\u0178\xbf-\xff',
                to: '\xa0-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'tis-620':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\u20ac\u2026\u2018\u2019\u201c\u201d\u2022\u2013\u2014\xa0\u0e01-\u0e3a\u0e3f-\u0e5b',
                to: '\x80\x85\x91-\x97\xa0-\xda\xdf-\xfb'
            };
            break;
        case'windows-1251':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\u0402\u0403\u201a\u0453\u201e\u2026\u2020\u2021\u20ac\u2030\u0409\u2039\u040a\u040c\u040b\u040f\u0452\u2018\u2019\u201c\u201d\u2022\u2013\u2014\u2122\u0459\u203a\u045a\u045c\u045b\u045f\xa0\u040e\u045e\u0408\xa4\u0490\xa6\xa7\u0401\xa9\u0404\xab-\xae\u0407\xb0\xb1\u0406\u0456\u0491\xb5-\xb7\u0451\u2116\u0454\xbb\u0458\u0405\u0455\u0457\u0410-\u044f',
                to: '\x80-\x97\x99-\xff'
            };
            break;
        case'windows-1253':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\u20ac\u201a\u0192\u201e\u2026\u2020\u2021\u2030\u2039\u2018\u2019\u201c\u201d\u2022\u2013\u2014\u2122\u203a\xa0\u0385\u0386\xa3-\xa9\xab-\xae\u2015\xb0-\xb3\u0384\xb5-\xb7\u0388-\u038a\xbb\u038c\xbd\u038e-\u03a1\u03a3-\u03ce',
                to: '\x80\x82-\x87\x89\x8b\x91-\x97\x99\x9b\xa0-\xa9\xab-\xd1\xd3-\xfe'
            };
            break;
        case'windows-1255':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\u20ac\u201a\u0192\u201e\u2026\u2020\u2021\u02c6\u2030\u2039\u2018\u2019\u201c\u201d\u2022\u2013\u2014\u02dc\u2122\u203a\xa0-\xa3\u20aa\xa5-\xa9\xd7\xab-\xb9\xf7\xbb-\xbf\u05b0-\u05b9\u05bb-\u05c3\u05f0-\u05f4\u05d0-\u05ea\u200e\u200f',
                to: '\x80\x82-\x89\x8b\x91-\x99\x9b\xa0-\xc9\xcb-\xd8\xe0-\xfa\xfd\xfe'
            };
            break;
        case'windows-1256':
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '\u20ac\u067e\u201a\u0192\u201e\u2026\u2020\u2021\u02c6\u2030\u0679\u2039\u0152\u0686\u0698\u0688\u06af\u2018\u2019\u201c\u201d\u2022\u2013\u2014\u06a9\u2122\u0691\u203a\u0153\u200c\u200d\u06ba\xa0\u060c\xa2-\xa9\u06be\xab-\xb9\u061b\xbb-\xbe\u061f\u06c1\u0621-\u0636\xd7\u0637-\u063a\u0640-\u0643\xe0\u0644\xe2\u0645-\u0648\xe7-\xeb\u0649\u064a\xee\xef\u064b-\u064e\xf4\u064f\u0650\xf7\u0651\xf9\u0652\xfb\xfc\u200e\u200f\u06d2',
                to: '\x80-\xff'
            };
            break;
        default:
            this.oCharsetConversion = {
                from: '',
                to: ''
            };
            break;
        }
        var funcExpandString = function(sSearch) {
            var sInsert = '';
            for (var i = sSearch.charCodeAt(0), n = sSearch.charCodeAt(2); i <= n; i++)
                sInsert += String.fromCharCode(i);
            return sInsert;
        };
        this.oCharsetConversion.from = this.oCharsetConversion.from.replace(/.\-./g, funcExpandString);
        this.oCharsetConversion.to = this.oCharsetConversion.to.replace(/.\-./g, funcExpandString);
    }
    var sReturn = '', iOffsetFrom = 0;
    for (var i = 0, n = this.length; i < n; i++)
    {
        iOffsetFrom = this.oCharsetConversion.from.indexOf(this.charAt(i));
        sReturn += iOffsetFrom>-1 ? this.oCharsetConversion.to.charAt(iOffsetFrom) : (this.charCodeAt(i) > 127 ? '&#' + this.charCodeAt(i) + ';' : this.charAt(i));
    }
    return sReturn
}

Lord knows what they were thinking.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2016, 01:42:29 pm »
Bizarre. It's UTF-8! It's made to handle lots of characters. :palm:
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Offline Galaxyrise

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2016, 01:51:40 pm »
Lord knows what they were thinking.
The SMF documentation on converting a database to UTF-8 talks about the database being in a code page if it's not in UTF-8 (apparently old enough SMF wasn't utf-8?)  So presumably that's related.

The only character sets in that script which I see support ? (\u03bc) are UTF-8 and windows-1253, both of which support upper-case Omega (\u03a9).  Since ? makes it through but capital omega gets lost, the data loss is somewhere else...
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Offline apelly

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2016, 01:57:38 pm »
Latex is installed on the board. You can \$\Omega\$ all you like, and it will display correctly
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2016, 02:33:21 pm »
? ohm seems to work for me.
[ahaha never mind it turned into a question mark]
Yep! It works when you're typing up the post, but get's elided by the forum software. Many people have fallen into that trap :)
What's the trick with ohms then?
Dave's trying to sort it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/can-we-have-an-omega-smiley/
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Offline helius

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2016, 02:49:28 pm »
What's the trick with ohms then?
The trick is to use two dollar signs (each preceded by a backslash), and put \Omega between them. This makes it render using MathJax, which has all of the greek and other math symbols (and is processed in the browser, so SMF scripts aren't involved).
You can see more commands here: http://meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/mathjax-basic-tutorial-and-quick-reference

\$ \Omega \$
\$ \mathfrak {Judas \; Priest} \$

Unfortunately, it causes the page to resize after rendering in an annoying way.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 03:02:32 pm by helius »
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2016, 04:43:34 pm »
Here is a list of special characters which survive in posts without being converted to question marks:

£ ¥ § © ® « » ¬ ° ± ² ³ µ ¼ ½ ¾ ÷
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Offline IanB

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2016, 04:48:40 pm »
These, I think, will get turned into "?", but let me try anyway:

™ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2016, 05:04:02 pm »
The SMF documentation on converting a database to UTF-8 talks about the database being in a code page if it's not in UTF-8 (apparently old enough SMF wasn't utf-8?)  So presumably that's related.

BTW, I have asked gnif (resident forum penguin master) about converting to UTF-8 and he does not recommend it, it never goes smoothly, and we have a massive back database of posts that it could mess up.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2016, 05:12:06 pm »
Here is a list of special characters which survive in posts without being converted to question marks:

£ ¥ § © ® « » ¬ ° ± ² ³ µ ¼ ½ ¾ ÷


Im Pretty sure those are all in the ASCII set
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Offline Karel

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2016, 05:25:16 pm »
Here is a list of special characters which survive in posts without being converted to question marks:

£ ¥ § © ® « » ¬ ° ± ² ³ µ ¼ ½ ¾ ÷


Im Pretty sure those are all in the ASCII set

No, they are not. ASCII is 7 bit only, hence has only 128 characters including some "invisible" control-characters.

I gues you are confused with "extended" ASCII which are unofficial 8 bit extensions.
Because of all the different extended ASCII tables, there's no guarantee your special character will look the same
on another computer.

Quote
The term extended ASCII (EASCII or high ASCII) refers to eight-bit or larger character encodings that include
the standard seven-bit ASCII characters, plus additional characters. The use of the term is sometimes criticized,
because it can be mistakenly interpreted to mean that the ASCII standard has been updated to include more
than 128 characters or that the term unambiguously identifies a single encoding, both of which are not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ASCII



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Offline Simon

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2016, 05:34:18 pm »
oh I see
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Offline Galaxyrise

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2016, 08:26:47 am »
Here is a list of special characters which survive in posts without being converted to question marks:

£ ¥ § © ® « » ¬ ° ± ² ³ µ ¼ ½ ¾ ÷


Im Pretty sure those are all in the ASCII set

Presuming the database is in ISO8859-1, then the extended characters should be:

  ¡ ¢ £ ¤ ¥ ¦ § ¨ © ª «   ¬ ® ¯
° ± ² ³ ´ µ ¶ · ¸ ¹ º » ¼ ½ ¾ ¿
À Á Â Ã Ä Å Æ Ç È É Ê Ë Ì Í Î Ï
Ð Ñ Ò Ó Ô Õ Ö × Ø Ù Ú Û Ü Ý Þ ß
à á â ã ä å æ ç è é ê ë ì í î ï
ð ñ ò ó ô õ ö ÷ ø ù ú û ü ý þ ÿ


ISO8859-1 leaves 33 undefined from 127-159, which must be where ™ ends up. So I sent myself a message with some other similar characters, and also found:

€ ‚ ƒ „ … † ‡ ˆ ‰ Š ‹ Œ Ž ‘ ’ “ ” • – — ˜  ™ š › œ ž Ÿ

 I wonder if these are part of why converting to UTF-8 is a pain. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 08:49:22 am by Galaxyrise »
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Offline helius

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2016, 10:05:01 am »
Quote
ISO8859-1 leaves 33 undefined from 127-159, which must be where ™ ends up. So I sent myself a message with some other similar characters, and also found:

Those are Windows-1252 characters.
Oddly, I can't use "Insert Quote" to quote your message; some script gets wedged trying to translate the characters in it.
 

Offline bson

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2016, 10:27:14 am »
The page announces that it is outputting UTF-8

Yeah, but it gets stored in a database, and mysql and a lot of forum software have very poor multibyte support with unpredictable problems with things like strings that end mid-sequence or use invalid/undefined codes.  Apart from crashing or producing unpredictable results it's also an SQL injection attack vector.  So it's customary to scrub text before storing it.  That's why it can look correct in a forum preview, but then when you post it gets scrubbed when committed to the db, and when output again you get the scrubbed version.
 
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Offline Len

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2016, 01:52:57 am »
Does that mean forum software typically does not cater for multibyte code pages? What about SMF in particular? How long will it take to get mysql to properly support multi-byte languages?

Of course MySQL (recent versions) supports Unicode characters for all languages. But, of course, it also allows you to not use Unicode if you choose. The same is true of most other software (operating systems, web browsers, forums, etc.) It's easy to design a system that fails to properly support multi-lingual text from end to end.

I don't know about the SMF forum software in particular. It might just be a configuration problem in SMF or MySQL, or it might not be possible for an omega character to survive all the from your keyboard to my screen.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2016, 06:23:47 pm »
Someone in another thread posted these smilies which appear to be Unicode or something.
😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/products-you-hate/msg1016096/#msg1016096

I wonder if it's fixed. Now let's try some other characters:
??????

No. It didn't work, so why does it work with 😠 and not the Ohm symbol?

 ??
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 06:31:30 pm by Hero999 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2016, 06:49:31 pm »
Someone in another thread posted these smilies which appear to be Unicode or something.
😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/products-you-hate/msg1016096/#msg1016096

I wonder if it's fixed. Now let's try some other characters:
??????

No. It didn't work, so why does it work with 😠 and not the Ohm symbol?

 ??
Let's see if they copy/paste:
😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠

Nice
So if we search Google for them with a highlight and right click:
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0&rlz=1C1ASUM_enNZ497NZ497&oq=%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0%F0%9F%98%A0&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Following this link from the search results:
http://emojipedia.org/emoji/%F0%9F%98%A0/

We find all manner of symbols, in fact truck loads of stuff but no Ohms.  :rant:

More looking:
From a Google search for Ohms emoji
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%A9

? (U+03A9) or ? (U+2126) Apple: ALT + (lowercase) z

)#A(
or
@!@^
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 07:13:06 pm by tautech »
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Offline Ammar

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2016, 07:11:49 pm »
$\Omega$
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2016, 07:12:29 pm »
I've Google Ohms symbol, copied & pasted it: ?????????????????????

$\Omega$
That doesn't work for me. I'm using my work's computer and the firewall blocks Latex. All I see is the code.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2016, 07:18:37 pm »
$\Omega$
That doesn't work for me. I'm using my work's computer and the firewall blocks Latex. All I see is the code.

I see $\Omega$ too. To make it render you have to put backslashes in front of the dollars, like this: \$\Omega\$
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2016, 07:23:42 pm »
$\Omega$
That doesn't work for me. I'm using my work's computer and the firewall blocks Latex. All I see is the code.

I see $\Omega$ too. To make it render you have to put backslashes in front of the dollars, like this: \$\Omega\$
I still see the code, just with the backslashes in front of the dollars now.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2016, 07:29:43 pm »
$\Omega$
That doesn't work for me. I'm using my work's computer and the firewall blocks Latex. All I see is the code.

I see $\Omega$ too. To make it render you have to put backslashes in front of the dollars, like this: \$\Omega\$
Copy/paste from quoting from Ians post:
\$\Omega\$
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Offline IanB

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2016, 07:30:06 pm »
I still see the code, just with the backslashes in front of the dollars now.

Oh well. Then I guess the only option is to do it like this:
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2016, 07:33:44 pm »
I still see the code, just with the backslashes in front of the dollars now.

Oh well. Then I guess the only option is to do it like this:
Tricky bugger.  :)
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Online Zero999

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Re: Extended characters?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2016, 07:45:58 pm »
I still see the code, just with the backslashes in front of the dollars now.

Oh well. Then I guess the only option is to do it like this:
Tricky bugger.  :)
Yes, that works!

According to Wikipedia. Omega has two Unicode points. I'll try them both by copying and pasting a section of the article:

"Unicode has a separate code point for the ohm sign (U+2126, ?), but it is included only for backward compatibility, and the Greek uppercase omega character (U+03A9, ?) is preferred"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega#The_symbol_.CE.A9_.28uppercase_letter.29
?
No, neither work!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 08:48:51 pm by Hero999 »
 


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