Author Topic: Hakko 926 -- Received it today  (Read 12955 times)

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Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2017, 12:28:48 pm »
Got the set of replacement tips for the Hakko in the mail today.  Threw one on, turned on and set to 750F.
30 seconds later, solder melted like nothing, as I saw the LED turn on when the tip hit the solder instantly keeping it up to temp.
Glad to hear!
I wouldn't really suggest using 750F on a regular basis though.
I'd say using 650F for soldering and 700F for desoldering would be best.
Also, you might wanna get this spare circuit board for it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Used-Good-HAKKO-926-Mainboard-Circuit-/302160810290
Maybe you'll need it someday, and replacing it fully is easier than troubleshooting the existing.
 

Offline JenniferGTopic starter

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2017, 01:38:10 pm »
Thanks RayRay.

I tried 500F even and it melted the solder fine.  Dialed it down to 300F, and it breaks the solder and somewhat melts it if you hold it just right for a sec.

I am not sure what the ideal temps are for each job.   What temp should I use for sensitive IC's?  650F? 600F?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 01:40:34 pm by JenniferG »
Test Equip: GDM-8251a, UT61E, Probemaster, Tektronix 2225
Power Supplies: GPD-3303S (w/o overshoot problem)
Soldering Station:  Hakko 926
 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2017, 04:00:22 pm »
You're welcome  ;)
Anyhow, I've used the temps I've specified for pretty much everything (including ICs) and never had a problem.
I wouldn't advise going lower than 600F though. The iron is suppose to properly wet the surface as well, and not just melt the solder.
And as long as you use the right tip and technique, it's all good.
Generally speaking, you should do your best to get the job done as quickly as possible (and not let the iron touch the joint for too long)
Using Flux also helps a lot (with both soldering and desoldering), and definitely stick to leaded solder (preferably 63/37) and avoid the lead-free junk (which is a pain to work with!). Having a good set of tweezers & solder assist tools helps too, as well as having a "third hand" device (so you'd have both hands free while soldering!) these are intended for small/medium PCBs, but if you get more than one, you could also use em for larger ones. Just make sure you insulate the jaws of the alligator clips (with multiple layers of electrical tape and/or heatshrink) to minimize the odds of damage. Set all that aside though, you might wanna look into calibrating your station!
At 300F, it's not suppose to be melting anything. The melting point for leaded solder is 361-370F, and for lead-free it's 406F-451F.
So I'd say the temp of your iron is definitely a bit off. I'd suggest you get these for calibration:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10014887/2665400-hyelec-ms6501-1-7-lcd-k-type-digital-temperature
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-Type-Thermocouple-Wire-Digital-Thermometer-High-Temperature-Kiln-Oven-PK1000-/222085401163
Just melt some solder onto the end of the probe. You can find calibration instructions on the 926 manual:
http://www.dancap.co.uk/Discontinued/926.pdf
Goodluck.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 04:03:08 pm by RayRay »
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2017, 04:09:48 pm »
For eutectic leaded  310-330 C is just perfect.  So your first estimate for 600-650 is correct.. Higher than that, you just burn tips like crazy, and will more likely damage components..

Long time ago (like 15 or more) I bought Weller TCP (magnastat) that have different tips for different temps..  All 370C tips (number 7) are gone or damaged... 310C(no 6) are like new...
And with lower temps flux burns less so it easier to clean....


 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 04:28:59 pm »
For eutectic leaded  310-330 C is just perfect.  So your first estimate for 600-650 is correct.. Higher than that, you just burn tips like crazy, and will more likely damage components..
I still stick to what I've said earlier. From my experience, for soldering, 350C/650F is ideal, and 370C/700F is better for desoldering (as it's get the job done much quicker). And no, you will definitely not damage components (as long as you know how to solder/desolder properly at least)

Long time ago (like 15 or more) I bought Weller TCP (magnastat) that have different tips for different temps..  All 370C tips (number 7) are gone or damaged... 310C(no 6) are like new...
This might be either a misunderstanding on your part, or a case of defective tips/calibiration issue on your iron.
Sometimes, the tip of the iron can look a bit crusty at a higher temp, but if you apply fresh solder to it (and then wipe it off with a sponge or stick it in a tip cleaner wool) it'd look like new! (and for the record, you're suppose to always apply some fresh solder to the tip before powering it off, and optionally wipe it off as above as well) this extends the life of the tip. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 06:05:13 pm by RayRay »
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2017, 08:46:20 pm »
This might be either a misunderstanding on your part, or a case of defective tips/calibiration issue on your iron.
Sometimes, the tip of the iron can look a bit crusty at a higher temp, but if you apply fresh solder to it (and then wipe it off with a sponge or stick it in a tip cleaner wool) it'd look like new! (and for the record, you're suppose to always apply some fresh solder to the tip before powering it off, and optionally wipe it off as above as well) this extends the life of the tip. 

Thank you for your concerns, but I've been doing soldering for pretty much 40+years, and not as a hobby..
Speed of chemical processes, including oxidation, are very dependent on temperature, and relation is not linear. So increasing temperature just 30-40C might decrease life of tips many times.. Magnastat tips are using Curie point magnetic sensor in a tip itself, and cannot be uncalibrated.. 

Your recommended temperatures are quite OK, I would consider them upper bracket. They are good recommendation, actually, because in real life you get to work with all solder qualities, and those can melt slightly differently than quality solder.   I would agree that as a general recomendation, 330-360C would be best.

And I was talking of tips that had 8+hours a day working, so some of them worked harder in their 10 years than a hobby user would use them in a lifetime..
And it is clearly visible that 370C tips were much more corroded that 310C ones.

Also I would again repeat the issue of rosin flux burning. If you solder in 330-350C area (or 310-320C as I do) you are minimising rosin flux burning and carbonization. It gets properly activated but not decomposed and burned. No clean fluxes are no clean, only if you don't burn them black.  And it is easy to keep tips clean. No hardened burned flux residue. Wipe it to the sponge, solder on. Also no rapid oxidation of the solder itself... And thank you for asking, i pretty much wipe the tip after EVERY soldered point.

High temperatures are legacy of old small power soldering irons of the past. With modern high power sophisticated thermoregulated irons with huge thermal capacity, lower temperatures are better, of course, up to the point.

Best regards.
 
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Offline JenniferGTopic starter

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2017, 09:14:28 pm »
Thanks for the help.  I feel I solder quite decently and desolder okay.  I have a feeling desoldering is going to be much easier with this iron as I was having problems by not having a proper temp controlled iron.

I can make nice looking solder joints and my flux never really burnt.  I get in there and form the joint quickly so the joint doesn't heat up more than necessary.  Going to be so much easier with this new iron I got.

I bought a roll of Kester leaded solder for $25 of Amazon a year or so ago.  63/37 alloy.  0.031" diameter.  Core size 66.   I do my best not to breathe in lead fumes.
Test Equip: GDM-8251a, UT61E, Probemaster, Tektronix 2225
Power Supplies: GPD-3303S (w/o overshoot problem)
Soldering Station:  Hakko 926
 

Offline tpowell1830

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2017, 09:20:47 pm »
Thanks for the help.  I feel I solder quite decently and desolder okay.  I have a feeling desoldering is going to be much easier with this iron as I was having problems by not having a proper temp controlled iron.

I can make nice looking solder joints and my flux never really burnt.  I get in there and form the joint quickly so the joint doesn't heat up more than necessary.  Going to be so much easier with this new iron I got.

I bought a roll of Kester leaded solder for $25 of Amazon a year or so ago.  63/37 alloy.  0.031" diameter.  Core size 66.   I do my best not to breathe in lead fumes.

Solder in peace. Just get one of those tiny little desk fans that are slow-turning at about 3-4" diameter to blow across your work area. No worries.
PEACE===>T
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2017, 09:49:40 pm »
Jenn,

it seems you are doing everything pretty much perfect... Kester is one of very good brands.. I actually prefer 63/37 alloy.
tpowell1830 is right, just a bit of air stream to blow away from your face is usually more than enough, if you don't do production work..
You can try to find one of those fans with carbon filters... They can sometimes be had for very little money.. They are helpful..

Take care.
 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2017, 10:33:51 pm »
I have a feeling desoldering is going to be much easier with this iron as I was having problems by not having a proper temp controlled iron.
Just to verify though, when desoldering, you don't attempt to just have a go at the joint as-is, right?
Because that's not the best way to go about it.
Generally speaking, there are two good techniques to properly melt solder on a used joint.
First one is to apply a bit of flux to it, and second is to apply a bit of fresh solder to it.
After that, just heat it up with the iron and use wick/pump to remove the solder.
Sometimes though, it's easier to remove the component first, and then clean up the solder from the joint.
This is especially true when it comes to wires/capacitors/resistors/diodes. I.E heat up the joint from one side, and wiggle it out from the other (one leg at a time) with a soft cloth/tweezers/solder assist tool.

I bought a roll of Kester leaded solder for $25 of Amazon a year or so ago.  63/37 alloy.  0.031" diameter.  Core size 66.   I do my best not to breathe in lead fumes.
That should be good enough for most uses, although, a smaller diameter could come handy for SMD work, or cases where you have joints that are very close to each other with very little spacing.

Thank you for your concerns, but I've been doing soldering for pretty much 40+years, and not as a hobby..
Speed of chemical processes, including oxidation, are very dependent on temperature, and relation is not linear. So increasing temperature just 30-40C might decrease life of tips many times.. Magnastat tips are using Curie point magnetic sensor in a tip itself, and cannot be uncalibrated.. 
Well, to be fair, I didn't know what your soldering experience is, and I've never suggested that you don't know your stuff, only disagreed with some of the things you've mentioned. Especially the part about damaging components. Heat by itself will not damage components (unless you use an extremely high temp, then it's a possibility) the most important thing is the technique and using the right tip (I.E you don't wanna use a too small tip for a fairly large joint, nor keep the tip on the joint for extended period of time). Also, some people don't know how to properly hold/point a soldering iron, and accidentally fry the components or make a hole in the PCB etc.  But set all that aside, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised from the way you've handled it! Someone else would've probably get a bit angry at me. Anyhow, I definitely agree with you that there is a correlation between the temperature you use to the tip's longevity. That said, 350>370 is hardly that much of a difference. My bad about the Magnastat tips, just didn't had prior experience with em.

Your recommended temperatures are quite OK, I would consider them upper bracket. They are good recommendation, actually, because in real life you get to work with all solder qualities, and those can melt slightly differently than quality solder.   I would agree that as a general recomendation, 330-360C would be best.
It's always nice to have some common ground  ;)

And I was talking of tips that had 8+hours a day working, so some of them worked harder in their 10 years than a hobby user would use them in a lifetime
That's a very good point actually.
Most people rarely use a soldering iron for that much time in a single day.
In a commercial setting (I.E a repair shop) this could be different I guess.

Also I would again repeat the issue of rosin flux burning. If you solder in 330-350C area (or 310-320C as I do) you are minimising rosin flux burning and carbonization. It gets properly activated but not decomposed and burned. No clean fluxes are no clean, only if you don't burn them black.  And it is easy to keep tips clean. No hardened burned flux residue. Wipe it to the sponge, solder on. Also no rapid oxidation of the solder itself... And thank you for asking, i pretty much wipe the tip after EVERY soldered point.
That very rarely happens to me. And I clean it up regardless (I just find it more aesthetically pleasing)
I clean up the tip after each joint also, although, I no longer use a sponge (I much prefer the wool brass!)
Wetting the sponge before each job is a bother, plus, if you don't use distilled water, you risk increased tip oxidation.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2017, 10:42:45 pm »

Ray, no offense on my side, quite the contrary.. I presumed you wanted to help because you don't know me and what I know. Thanks for that.
Likewise, I shared my experience, not tryin to say you're wrong... More like to supplement information to yours...

LOL, I also find it  " more aesthetically pleasing" to keep it clean , tidy and shiny...

Have a good one..
 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2017, 11:07:00 pm »
Actually, I was referring to cleaning the flux from the circuit board on that part.
And have a good one too!  ;)
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2017, 11:19:46 pm »
Thanks for the help.  I feel I solder quite decently and desolder okay.  I have a feeling desoldering is going to be much easier with this iron as I was having problems by not having a proper temp controlled iron.

Besides the correct temperature set (as mentioned here, around 350°C for soldering) it is important, to have enough power in the soldering iron. That is why I have a Weller WD 1M with a WP120 solder iron (it comes with 120W). It helps really, if you have to solder or desolder things
which can suck a huge amount of heat.
What is also very important, is the right technique. You should always make sure, that you have a good thermal contact, so that the heat from the solder iron can flow fast and easily to your solder point. Speed in soldering is the key, not to damage things, especially if you have to solder things like connectors etc. with lots of plastic parts, which can easily melt. And it is a good advice, to put some fresh solder on your tip before soldering. And keep your tip clean after soldering. I like these brass wool sponges for the dry cleaning, they are very good. Avoid water wet sponges, I used them in my early Weller Magnastat days and they are awful.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline JenniferGTopic starter

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2017, 01:24:19 am »
I just used a water sponge last night, it wipes the tip clean to a high shine, as if fresh solder was on it -- in between each use.  I never have to add fresh solder to the tip with it; maybe just at the start of a session.  Been using a water sponge for a few years now with no problems.  I really do like how it totally cleans the tip.

Also I notice, with this new 60w (50w) iron I have, there is enough wattage to almost instantly bring the iron back up to temp after using the sponge.. like  1 second max.

Is the thermal shock bad for the heating element / tip?

I've never tried the brass sponges / wool.  I suppose I should buy one and give it a try.  But I don't have to keep adding solder with the sponge though.
Test Equip: GDM-8251a, UT61E, Probemaster, Tektronix 2225
Power Supplies: GPD-3303S (w/o overshoot problem)
Soldering Station:  Hakko 926
 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2017, 01:51:55 am »
A brass wool would clean it up good also, and is definitely the better choice!
It's much more convenient to use (as you can use it instantly, without the need goto the tap)
Plus, it's healthier for the tip (as it doesn't cool it off) and also decreases the oxidation/scale buildup (it's best to use distilled water with a sponge, but most people just use plain tap water with it). Anyhow, these are usually called "soldering iron tip cleaner" and come in two forms.
There's the fully-contained one, and half-contained.

Fully-contained looks like this:

And half-contained like this:


The first option is better (less messy if you get a lot of solder in there)
These definitely last longer than sponges. And all you have to do is simply shove the tip in there for a few seconds and remove.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2017, 07:11:56 am »
With sponge it is crucial, that sponge shouldn't be full of water. It should be just damp to simply prevent damage to the sponge..
That way thermal shock is smaller too. But sponge gets dry quickly that way.
I use that as an reminder that I need to get up from a chair and stretch. And I go and wash the sponge and squeeze most of the water out.
And repeat...

Brass wool cleaners are simpler to use. Used correctly, both are good.
And my sponges last me a long time.. They look old but no damage and still work ok. I guess I was lucky with their quality..
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2017, 07:39:10 am »
I do my best not to breathe in lead fumes.

Just for the record: Soldering should not produce any lead fumes, as it just heats the solder slightly beyond its melting point, and nowhere near the boiling/evaporation temperature. It's the evaporating and smoking flux components that can constitute a health risk if inhaled (in quantity).

I have tried solder with a "halogen free" flux core a while ago, to minimize health concerns -- but found its fumes so pungent that I never used up that spool. I guess it did reduce health risks, since I very carefully avoided inhaling any of those fumes.  ;)
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2017, 08:19:50 am »
I must repeat what ebastler said.

There are no lead fumes. Period. You have to avoid flux smoke, they are nasty.

But also, must be careful with leaded solder handling and about tiny dust and debris (tiny solder balls) that collects in a sponge and around.

So good hand wash after handling solder is a must..
 

Offline RayRay

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Re: Hakko 926 -- Received it today
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2017, 11:45:29 am »
With sponge it is crucial, that sponge shouldn't be full of water. It should be just damp to simply prevent damage to the sponge..
That way thermal shock is smaller too. But sponge gets dry quickly that way.
I use that as an reminder that I need to get up from a chair and stretch. And I go and wash the sponge and squeeze most of the water out.
And repeat...
Yep, that's true. I've always squeezed it back when I used one.
I still prefer the wool brass though, it's just much easier to use, and is less messy in general.
Sponges just look nasty after a while, and if you don't clean up the excess solder often enough, it can go everywhere.

Brass wool cleaners are simpler to use. Used correctly, both are good.
I agree, although, using ordinary tap water with it is not the best practice (and this is what most people do)
The minerals are not healthy for the tip, and can also make the sponge stiffer.
So distilled water are best. I wouldn't use distilled water with an old sponge though, it's best to start fresh with a new one.
 


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