Do kits provide any value to learning electronics

[CatalinaWOW]

Kits often teach quite a bit because they aren't quite up to what they claim.  Figuring out the differences is where the learning occurs. 

This is true even for the best manufacturers.  Some of my best learning came from a Heathkit 25" television kit.  The set worked fine initially, but failed early.  Turned out that a component was being used beyond its rating.  That same set had built in alignment and analysis tools for adjusting the picture.  Learned things I would never have known about video and color processing.

[setq]

Definitely. I have a Heathkit IP-2718 power supply, built by a complete muppet, which had a couple of metering issues on it. Solving these I learned all sorts about moving coil meters, shunts, multipliers and tolerances.

Ikea still do ok so there must be a mid ground somewhere.

I assume said partly in jest but it is a good example, putting together Ikea (and other flat pack) furniture I learnt a lot about how furniture is put together, the shortcomings of the designs and I have successfully build my own storage units etc by copying what I learnt and improving on it.

I was actually completely serious

These are kits that make SWMBO happy, unlike the electronic ones

[djacobow]

If the kit fails to work first go then you learn a lot troubleshooting it.

One of my earliest kits was a Heathkit 19" color television. I was 13 y.o. It was obviously a large, complex kit. Some boards you had to assemble, some came assembled.

In any case, when I first powered it up, magic smoke came out. I found the damaged component on the main board and ordered a new main board to assemble. It smoked the same way. After much time upset, and much time debugging, I finally worked out that the one un-keyed cable harness in the  whole kit was in backwards. After calibrating the beams, the TV worked perfectly for 25 years until my folks tossed it, working, for an LCD jobbie.

The Heathkit manual had a detailed section on theory of operation. I learned a lot from that. Also, you really can't assemble a television without learning a bit how they work. In particular, they require calibration of the RGB beams by moving the control yolk and some fixed magnets. That means you can't escape without learning at least that there are beams.

Well, were beams. Today, all that knowledge of how a CRT TV worked is grampa-level, like knowing how to chink a log cabin.

[eventhorizon]

I think a lot of people did say something that I have said a lot of times but didn't think about.  You learn more when things don't work.  I can't think about how many time I have said that when talking about system design.  I have actually been looking for things that do not work so I can take them apart and try and fix them.  One of the issues that I have with electronics is that I try applying what I do when I have an issue with programming or want to know how some code works is follow the data and when I try to do that with a circuit I get lost in the first couple steps when trying to follow the path of voltage or what not.  A perfect example is the EEVblog #221 - Lab Power Supply Design.  I have tried this 3 times and as soon as he leaves the lm317 to the new design im lost I have even tried to pause the video and draw the circuit on paper and nothing its just lines to me.  This is why I came to this thread is because I figured I would just give a lm317 a go because its simple (so I thought) and I seen kits that do it for me and I was bouncing back and forth on getting the kit or a bag of 317s and well now I have a bag of 317s and heading back to amazon for heatsinks because I forgot.

Sidenote the Heathkit stuff looks really impressive even today and even a color tv kit man thats something. 

[jonovid]

Kits are generally more expensive that just buying the same thing pre-built

So True, But there was a time when Kits did save you money.  see  images  The Z80 based single-board computer released by Talking Electronics in Australia - and
Playmaster 116 40W Valve Amp - Circuit published by Electronics Australia June 1967
 kits Do provide Value to learning electronics . IF say the kit is say in-part pre-built Surface mount components. too fiddly for most without a microscope, but lets the builder decided what to add in customization say using thru-hole parts or re-programming its micro.   one circuit board as a Kit can be lots of similar projects, say a 8 in one audio amp kit  or a 16 in 1  home automation kit,  a saving in cost.  ideal kit circuit boards should be party translucent. not black, if a multi-layer PCB is used, the schematic needs to show this. 

[darrellg]

If they were still in business I would probably be buying even more kits.  They were fun to build!

They're back... https://www.heathkit.com/

[joseph nicholas]

its not going to provide negetive value.

The DSO138 uses positive and negative transistors, if thats what you mean.

[N2IXK]

I have built and restored many Heathkits over the years, and you can get as much electronics education out of them as you want to.  It is certainly possible for the rank novice to simply follow the directions and end up with a working item. Even then, the builder would gain a knowledge of component identification, color codes, soldering and wiring practices, and mechanical assembly.

The more complex kits had excellent "Theory of Operation" sections in the manual, which described the circuitry in exacting detail. I recently assembled a Heathkit 25" color TV kit that had been in storage since the early 1970s, and the circuit theory and schematics fill an entire manual by themselves (the assembly instructions cover 5 volumes, and a 6th is reserved for troubleshooting).  For this particular kit, there were 2 sets of instructions for doing the final setup and alignment, one using the minimal instruments (a VOM and dot generator built into the set), and a more complete procedure using a scope and sweep/marker generator.  Anyone interested in details can see the thread over at Videokarma that I posted during the build:

http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=266891

Heathkits tended to be built like the proverbial brick outhouse, and lent themselves to user modifications and tinkering like no commercial gear ever did.  I'm working up a mod to add composite and S-video inputs to the TV kit to make it more useful now that OTA analog TV is gone. They used largely off the shelf parts and basic circuit designs that served as a good baseline for further experimentation if you developed an interest in the actual workings of the kit, rather than just using it as a consumer device. Heathkit is sorely missed as one of the early influences that pushed me toward a career in electronics, that kids growing up now will never know.  The Heathkit model is MUCH harder to pull off in this age of BGA packages and similar devices that require specialized equipment to handle, solder and test. There is still a lot to be said for components you can actually see and work with using your hands rather than a microscope and tweezers....

[rjardina]

Learning? I build kits to get the women, I can't keep them off me when I out wearing this. Best $6USD I ever spent.

[eventhorizon]

Learning? I build kits to get the women, I can't keep them off me when I out wearing this. Best $6USD I ever spent.

I think we have a winner here. My wife loved me so much more after I finished the dso138

[@rt]

The kids kits that are part of a complete system certainly will... Such as the old 200 in 1 kits, or Dick Smith’s old Funway 1/2/3,
which I think is now forcibly replaced with Jaycar’s Short Circuits.

[rrinker]

Learning? I build kits to get the women, I can't keep them off me when I out wearing this. Best $6USD I ever spent.

If that pulls women, I can only imagine what would happen if I built and wore one of the nixie watches.