Getting a soldering station

[PotatoBox]

Hi,

As of now, I've been using one of those cheapo soldering irons from aliexpress for 3 dollars. But now, I think I want to get a soldering station with removeable tips. Now, I don't have enough money to get a weller or hakko, so I've been looking at some of these:

https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Removable-Design-ESD/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-7&keywords=soldering+station

https://www.amazon.ca/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-soldering-SHIPPING/dp/B009BXYOWC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+station

Any thoughts?

[rstofer]

I imagine they will work just fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ref=sr_1_1

I gave this soldering iron to my grandson and his first project looked fine.  But I see no reason the two irons you are looking at won't workl.  They do. however, lack an indicating knob or a temperature display.

[PotatoBox]

How about tips? What kind of tips do you guys recommend?

[Shock]

Depends what you prefer.

The basic types are hoof/oval shaped, chisel/spade, and pointed tips.
Typically you want a tip just a little larger than the diameter or width of the solder pad.
Due to the shape of chisel/spade tips it can be difficult drag soldering (a soldering technique for surface mounted IC's or doing wide pin connectors).

In addition to hoof/oval tips, other more exotic tip types like blades and hook tips can be used for drag soldering and also removing solder bridges (solder linked pins/joints). Drag soldering typically uses a tip large enough to cover several legs at once and take enough solder to complete the drag.

[Paul Price]

Why spend USD $50 when you can make your own ceramic heating element, hakko compatible tips, precise controlled temperature  Hackko for $5??

If you are really interested in learning about electronics, want to save money and like the idea of being able to use your electronic knowledge to do something that will help you, then try this..DIY.



[url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840456/#msg840456]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840456/#msg840456[/url]
Make your own for pennies.



[url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840584/#msg840584]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840584/#msg840584[/url]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/?action=dlattach;attach=193130



[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-5-Pin-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-for-HAKKO-907-ESD-907-936-937-928-926-/331741879087?hash=item4d3d5b5b2f:g:Ef4AAOSwQTVV-opZ]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-5-Pin-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-for-HAKKO-907-ESD-907-936-937-928-926-/331741879087?hash=item4d3d5b5b2f:g:Ef4AAOSwQTVV-opZ[/url]

[boffin]

Hi,

As of now, I've been using one of those cheapo soldering irons from aliexpress for 3 dollars. But now, I think I want to get a soldering station with removeable tips. Now, I don't have enough money to get a weller or hakko, so I've been looking at some of these:

https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Removable-Design-ESD/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-7&keywords=soldering+station

https://www.amazon.ca/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-soldering-SHIPPING/dp/B009BXYOWC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+station

Any thoughts?

Go onto Craigslist (or Kijiji) and type in "Soldering".  In addition to the load of crap you'll see for cheap Chinese/CdnTire/Princess Auto stuff, you'll come across decent soldering stations by Weller, Pace or Hakko.  For example here in metro Vancouver there are a couple of decent Weller stations for well under 1/2 price on Craigslist right now.
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/ele/5718065687.html
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/ele/5686807522.html

I've personally had my Weller for 35 years (and it was used when I got it), but I hear good things from people who have Hakkos

[Paul Price]

Craigslist, Smaigslist!

Why spend USD $50 when you can make your own ceramic element precise controlled temperature  Hackko for $5??

See my previous post.

[PotatoBox]

Why spend USD $50 when you can make your own ceramic heating element, hakko compatible tips, precise controlled temperature  Hackko for $5??

If you are really interested in learning about electronics, want to save money and like the idea of being able to use your electronic knowledge to do something that will help you, then try this..DIY.



[url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840456/#msg840456]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840456/#msg840456[/url]
Make your own for pennies.



[url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840584/#msg840584]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/msg840584/#msg840584[/url]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/picking-a-soldering-station/?action=dlattach;attach=193130



[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-5-Pin-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-for-HAKKO-907-ESD-907-936-937-928-926-/331741879087?hash=item4d3d5b5b2f:g:Ef4AAOSwQTVV-opZ]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-5-Pin-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-for-HAKKO-907-ESD-907-936-937-928-926-/331741879087?hash=item4d3d5b5b2f:g:Ef4AAOSwQTVV-opZ[/url]

In that schematic, the component that looks like 2 diodes side by side, what is that? Its below the 5pin din socket.

[Dave]

Why spend USD $50 when you can make your own ceramic heating element, hakko compatible tips, precise controlled temperature  Hackko for $5??

Except you can't.

The $3 handle isn't going to be anywhere near the quality of something decent. Even the ebay ad shows the strain relief popped out. Then again, what do you expect to get for that money?

Your "precise" temperature control is far from anything a decent solder station would do. You basically have a comparator that compares the set point and the feedback it gets from the thermistor. That thing overshoots, I guarantee it. A decent solder station needs a carefully tweaked PID control loop, whether it is analog or digital.

In that schematic, the component that looks like 2 diodes side by side, what is that? Its below the 5pin din socket.

A triac.

[PotatoBox]

Anyone have experience with hakko 936 clones?


http://m.ebay.ca/itm/YiHUA-936-220V-ESD-Rework-Electric-SMD-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-Set-Welding-EU-/371605922994?nav=SEARCH

[Shock]

Anyone have experience with hakko 936 clones?

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/YiHUA-936-220V-ESD-Rework-Electric-SMD-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-Set-Welding-EU-/371605922994?nav=SEARCH

I got 4 of them, the transformer capacity is less than the Hakko 936 according to someone who mentioned testing it. The fine soldering tip it comes with is not much good for anything but can easily be replaced with either clone tips (very cheap on Ebay) or genuine Hakko T18 or 900M series (the T18 are superior according to them) which start around $5 USD, buy from a genuine distributor if you do.

Dave did a review on it, but I don't recall him calibrating the iron after changing the tips, you need to do this or adjust the temperature to compensate (common to many Hakko models). When I brought my 4 it came to $15.74 each (shipped!) they have almost doubled in price but they used to be crazy cheap.

Apart from that it always pays to take a quick look under the hood for any funny business, such as bad earthing, you will also want to confirm if it has the correct mains plug and voltage for your country. Obviously don't do anything outside your skill level.

[setq]

Avoid the Aoyue clones. I had one and it spent most of its time falling apart and the heater didn't touch the tip properly.

[wraper]

Avoid the Aoyue clones. I had one and it spent most of its time falling apart and the heater didn't touch the tip properly.

They are somewhat decent enough for most of non demanding soldering jobs. Would buy it (only is I had tight budget) over this useless garbage (with power, not temperature control) any day:

https://www.amazon.ca/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-soldering-SHIPPING/dp/B009BXYOWC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+station

[setq]

Yes I'd buy it over that as well!

[GreyWoolfe]

potatobox, the best thing you can do for yourself is to save money for a longer period of time and get a quality soldering station.  There have been more than enough threads here over the years I've been a member that complain about the quality of the cheap stations or how to modify them to be better.  When you buy the right tool, the best tool you can buy, you only buy once.  Why drive a Yugo when, for not a huge amount of money more, you can drive a Mercedes.  Remember you can't modify that Yugo to be a Mercedes.

I learned to solder with a firestick just like you.  Then I got a Hakko 936 brand new that I saved money for.  Huge difference.  Now I have a Hakko FX-951 and a Metcal MX-500.  Huge difference again.  If you plan to solder a lot, save the extra money, get a selection of OEM tips for whatever station you buy and then there will be no buyer's remorse.  Unless there is an urgent need for one NOW, be patient and buy well.  I do understand that money is tight, it is for me also.  I have what I have because I disposed of a bunch of stuff I accumulated over the years that gave me enough money.  Otherwise, I would still have the 936 and would still be enjoying using it.  Just because money is tight, it doesn't mean you can't have what you want.  It just means it will take a bit longer to get there.

[nanofrog]

+1 ^^^

[setq]

Just a note: you can pick up a used metcal on eBay for not much now.

[Paul Price]

Someone has remaked "Your "precise" temperature control is far from anything a decent solder station would do. You basically have a comparator that compares the set point and the feedback it gets from the thermistor. That thing overshoots, I guarantee it. A decent solder station needs a carefully tweaked PID control loop, whether it is analog or digital."

This is nonsense.  Can you "guarentee it"?

Show me any video or any data to back up your claim for absolute need for a "carefully tweeked PID control loop,,or that other "Professional" soldering stations maybe hundreds of times more expensive are not also showing this behavior?

Having a "carefully tweaked PID control loop' implies a critical need that a competent soldering station has been equipped with a microcontroller and carefully tweaked software. I haven't  yet to see even the uncommon use of any MCU in any soldering station schematic I've ever seen.
There is only reason for MCU's not being used, they are not necessary to achieve good temperature control.
First of all it is not necessary to control the temperature of any soldering iron within  few degrees, soldering is a much an art as a skill and learning how to use the tools you have makes all the difference in using any soldering tool.

Even with the crudest of soldering tools, learning that soldering technique is a "touch and go" situation that can be learned as a skill, and having this skill can allow even a cigarette lighter heating a ball-point pen clip to be used to successfully solder/unsolder tiny SMD components. It does take a little practice.

Having any feedback loop, such as the very simple comparator circuit I've shown is in comparison, is a thousand time more able to stablize temperature and can rival the soldering ease of the most expensive stations.

The temperature of the tip of a soldering stations varies, it varies, with many factors, most notably,  the thermal mass it is applied to, the power available to heat the heating element and the distance/thermal resistance from the heating element from the sensor and the tip and the thermal conductivity of the object being soldered and the surface it is soldered to, the time that tip is applied to the object to be soldered..etc.  It is not constant.

[Dave]

Someone has remaked "Your "precise" temperature control ..."

How about you quote my post properly and not make it seem like you don't know who it was that wrote that?

Your "precise" temperature control is far from anything a decent solder station would do. You basically have a comparator that compares the set point and the feedback it gets from the thermistor. That thing overshoots, I guarantee it.

This is nonsense.  Can you "guarentee it"?

Yes, I can guarantee that the temperature is going to overshoot with a comparator regulator. It takes time for the heat to propagate from the heater element through the metal to the thermistor, therefore by the time the regulator detects that the temperature has reached the set point and cuts the power, the heater will have already put too much heat into the system and the temperature will overshoot. Simple physics.
Look at the behavior of a proper soldering station. The power to the heater will be pulled back before the tip reaches the set point, resulting in minimal/no overshoot.

Show me any video or any data to back up your claim for absolute need for a "carefully tweeked PID control loop,,or that other "Professional" soldering stations maybe hundreds of times more expensive are not also showing this behavior?

If you think that I'm going to put in the effort to dig around the internet or turn on a camera to prove a point to you, you're sadly mistaken. Do your own research.
Furthermore, if you are going to quote me, have the decency to use copy-paste or make damn sure you spelled the words correctly.

Having a "carefully tweaked PID control loop' implies a critical need that a competent soldering station has been equipped with a microcontroller and carefully tweaked software.

Nope.

First of all it is not necessary to control the temperature of any soldering iron within  few degrees, soldering is a much an art as a skill and learning how to use the tools you have makes all the difference in using any soldering tool.

Even with the crudest of soldering tools, learning that soldering technique is a "touch and go" situation that can be learned as a skill, and having this skill can allow even a cigarette lighter heating a ball-point pen clip to be used to successfully solder/unsolder tiny SMD components. It does take a little practice.

Having any feedback loop, such as the very simple comparator circuit I've shown is in comparison, is a thousand time more able to stablize temperature and can rival the soldering ease of the most expensive stations.

The temperature of the tip of a soldering stations varies, it varies, with many factors, most notably,  the thermal mass it is applied to, the power available to heat the heating element and the distance/thermal resistance from the heating element from the sensor and the tip and the thermal conductivity of the object being soldered and the surface it is soldered to, the time that tip is applied to the object to be soldered..etc.  It is not constant.

You could also argue that using a tip of a knife is much better than using a rock to undo a screw, but you couldn't possibly compare it to a screwdriver.

Is your solution better than using a firestick iron? Absolutely.
Does its performance rival the most expensive stations? Not even close.

[ez24]

Hi,

As of now, I've been using one of those cheapo soldering irons from aliexpress for 3 dollars. But now, I think I want to get a soldering station with removeable tips. Now, I don't have enough money to get a weller or hakko, so I've been looking at some of these:

https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Removable-Design-ESD/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-7&keywords=soldering+station

https://www.amazon.ca/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-soldering-SHIPPING/dp/B009BXYOWC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+station

Any thoughts?

Now after everyone's thoughts, what is yours?

[Refrigerator]

The cheap hakko clones are decent.
The reason they don't work very well is because the tip of the heating element ( where the temp sensor is ) does not touch the tip of the iron and there is a gap between the heating element body and the inside of the tip.
This can be fixed to some degree by shimming the tip with tin can aluminum but i've broken a couple heating elements doing that, thankfully they are reasonably cheap.
Some cutting would need to be done to make the tip of the heating element touch the tip of the iron as i found the gap is about 7mm.
Also another problem is the thin conductors in the lead of the iron, which does add resistance and thus losses, the lead is also quite stiff.
I've received a pair of 2$ hand pieces for "hakko" stations from different sellers and one has a nice soft lead, while the other has a stiff one, so they are not all the same.
Tips for these stations are cheap and there is a huge variety of them out there.

[PotatoBox]

Hi,

As of now, I've been using one of those cheapo soldering irons from aliexpress for 3 dollars. But now, I think I want to get a soldering station with removeable tips. Now, I don't have enough money to get a weller or hakko, so I've been looking at some of these:

https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Variable-Soldering-Removable-Design-ESD/dp/B00MCVCHJM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-7&keywords=soldering+station

https://www.amazon.ca/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-soldering-SHIPPING/dp/B009BXYOWC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1470775476&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+station

Any thoughts?

Now after everyone's thoughts, what is yours?

Well, IMO, I dont think I need a Hakko or expensive soldering iron. I have other hobbies that are a lot more expensive then soldering and with little money to play around with I need to choose where to spend my money on these things. So Im sure an Aoyue of some sort will be sufficient.

[R005T3r]

The cheap hakko clones are decent.
The reason they don't work very well is because the tip of the heating element ( where the temp sensor is ) does not touch the tip of the iron and there is a gap between the heating element body and the inside of the tip.
This can be fixed to some degree by shimming the tip with tin can aluminum but i've broken a couple heating elements doing that, thankfully they are reasonably cheap.
Some cutting would need to be done to make the tip of the heating element touch the tip of the iron as i found the gap is about 7mm.
Also another problem is the thin cosnductors in the lead of the iron, which does add resistance and thus losses, the lead is also quite stiff.
I've received a pair of 2$ hand pieces for "hakko" stations from different sellers and one has a nice soft lead, while the other has a stiff one, so they are not all the same.
Tips for these stations are cheap and there is a huge variety of them out there.

There's no point into buying a hakko clones then unless you want crap and you expect a crappy results: get something else instead, or as aforementioned, DIY. It works better.

[setq]

There are quite a few that don't as well, like all the ones I've owned...

[Paul Price]

Someone has made a claim and said "I guarantee it" about the unsuitability of my simple comparator controller circuit to make a very functional soldering station on their own.

But when asked to "guarantee it", the poster claimed he would not, could not.

It is bad manners to post a strong judgement  about the functionality and practical advantage of the  simple circuit I've posted here if you cannot support your claim with facts to back it up.

The word "overshoot" lacks quantitative support, which it must, because it's mangnitude is dependent on the exact instance of soldering, and it might be that the size of this effect might be totally insignificant in allowing someone achieving good and easy soldering results in the greatest number of instances.

It is just not going to help electronic enthusiasts and the OP sort out the real facts from conjecture. Please better help those interested in this topic to make their own choices and not present instead judgements not backed up by actual experience.

I would much prefer something posted here about someone that had decided to buy the $4 handle and then reporting their results of their soldering experience with this DIY tool, but with intellectual honesty. Aside from the questionable visual impression presented by a picture of the handle(showing a drooping strain relief), the other pictures of the insides of this handle appear to match other hakko clones of very high quality.