Good electronics simulator for beginner?

[hamiltont]

Hi folks,

Curious what others are using to simulate small example/learning circuits. I currently use http://everycircuit.com (both the webapp and the mobile) which is fantastic for me - love the ease of graphing any of the circuit points so I can instantly see relationships e.g. watching inductors resist current changes in real time. Love that I can dilate time easily - this is a big deal as a lot of what I am playing with I just don't have oscilloscope bandwidth to catch in real life.

My only big complaint is that the app kills my CPU, even on simple circuits, and can crash (so I'm now used to saving my work frequently).

Does anyone have recommendations on beginner-friendly simulators? 

[Mr. Scram]

I like the one below. It's simple and doesn't require an account or logging in like Everycircuit.

https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html

[rstofer]

LTspice

[Wimberleytech]

LTspice

Ditto.

I am a recent adopter to LTSpice.  It took me a bit to make it do what I expect from spice (give me control of models).  While it may not be the most user friendly simulator, it is the best thing going for free, hands down.

Just invest the time and learn it and there will be no turning back!!

[beanflying]

So when engineers would ask Bob Pease what his favorite Spice or his favorite programming language, Bob would loudly pronounce “My favorite programming language is solder!”

Yep

[Wimberleytech]

So when engineers would ask Bob Pease what his favorite Spice or his favorite programming language, Bob would loudly pronounce “My favorite programming language is solder!”

Yep

Yeah, he was a funny guy.  He certainly had valuable insight, but he refused to change with the times.  We would not be having this conversation now if solder were the only simulation tool.

[beanflying]

There was some caveats to that line by him too about Spice having a place for optimization and tweaking after you get a prototype working to save time. (not an exact quote but that was the idea)

Letting the smoke out of some components on a bread or vero board has more learning value but then I am old too

[Wimberleytech]

There was some caveats to that line by him too about Spice having a place for optimization and tweaking after you get a prototype working to save time. (not an exact quote but that was the idea)

Letting the smoke out of some components on a bread or vero board has more learning value but then I am old too

My first Spice simulation was using punch cards on an Amdahl 360 but I spent most of my time (back then) in the lab.  I love and appreciate (and respect) Spice and the lab!

[rstofer]

IBM Electronic Circuit Analysis Program (ECAP) for the IBM 1130 computer that I used in college '69-'73.  There weren't a lot of students with unlimited computer access in those days.

It did DC Steady State, AC and Transient Analysis.  It also did sensitivity analysis for iterating over changes in component values.  The only problem was it just printed pages and pages of output.  I changed the code to punch the data to cards and wrote a little ditty to read the cards and produce a plot on the drum plotter.  My Bode' plots were a thing of art.

I have the source code and the 360 version of the documentation but I don't recall whether I ever got it loaded on my FPGA incantation of the 1130.

[FrankBuss]

Use LTspice. Works on Windows, Mac and Linux (with Wine). Learning it takes some time, but there are lots of videos on Youtube and documentation for it, and you can create and test simple circuits with it in minutes. And it is used in the industry as well by professionals. So if you know it already, it will help you later, too, when you know more. Falstad etc. won't help you much for complicate tasks.

[Wimberleytech]

IBM Electronic Circuit Analysis Program (ECAP) for the IBM 1130 computer that I used in college '69-'73.  There weren't a lot of students with unlimited computer access in those days.

It did DC Steady State, AC and Transient Analysis.  It also did sensitivity analysis for iterating over changes in component values.  The only problem was it just printed pages and pages of output.  I changed the code to punch the data to cards and wrote a little ditty to read the cards and produce a plot on the drum plotter.  My Bode' plots were a thing of art.

I have the source code and the 360 version of the documentation but I don't recall whether I ever got it loaded on my FPGA incantation of the 1130.

I remember ECAP but never used it.  You are 'slightly' older than I!!

[Bassman59]

Does anyone have recommendations on beginner-friendly simulators?

Another vote here for LTSpice.

[MarkL]

I've been using Qucs (Quite Universal Circuit Simulator) for many years.  Works well for me.

  http://qucs.sourceforge.net/index.html

[Mr. Scram]

Another vote here for LTSpice.

LTSpice is a lot more clunky and less friendly than the more modern real-time simulators. Having things move and change in real-time is a boon. I'm not saying LTSpice isn't a very useful tool, but they seem to do somewhat different things. Real-time is good for seeing what circuits do as you mess with them and getting to grips with certain basics, whereas LTSpice is ultimately more versatile and a real engineering tool. They can supplement each other perfectly well.

[Eaglecrest]

LTSpice is a lot more clunky and less friendly than the more modern real-time simulators.

Please explain the point here and examples of what you seem to believe is a better approach.

[mdszy]

I can also recommend LTSpice. Real time and flashy doesn't mean it's professional software. LTSpice is very basic-looking, isn't real time, but is incredibly flexible. If there's any analog chip you want to simulate, just google "[part number] spice model" and, odds are, you can find what you need.

I've used LTSpice all throughout college for varying levels of electronics classes and it has never failed me. It's great to learn how to use SPICE software in general since many of them work very similarly, and LTSpice is free and especially good in my opinion.

[rstofer]

I chose LTspice when I commented above.  Yes, it's excellent.

But one level up, at a system view, MATLAB and Simulink do an excellent job.  Instead of dealing with individual op amps as integrators, I can just plug in an integrator to a model.  In effect, I can create an analog computer solution to a system.  This is clearly the domain of physical analog computers but they're not in favor at the moment.  Obsolete...  Maybe "old school"...

BTW, LTspice does a nice job at the system level as well.  I have some models of integrators that I can just drop in to a schematic.

There is an Electronics pack for MATLAB but I haven't played with it. 

The reason I bring up MATLAB is that there is a concurrent thread about explaining a capacitor.  I wanted to graph the charge and discharge curves and it is easy to do this in MATLAB.

[Mr. Scram]

Please explain the point here and examples of what you seem to believe is a better approach.

I'm not sure what you're asking for. LTSpice isn't real-time, whereas other simulators are. Seeing how things move around can help a lot, especially for beginners.

[Wimberleytech]

There is an Electronics pack for MATLAB but I haven't played with it. 

The reason I bring up MATLAB is that there is a concurrent thread about explaining a capacitor.  I wanted to graph the charge and discharge curves and it is easy to do this in MATLAB.

MATLAB is not cheap.  Are using the HOME version (which is reasonable)?  Octave is cheap (free...of course).

[hamiltont]

Thanks for the input folks!

[rstofer]

There is an Electronics pack for MATLAB but I haven't played with it. 

The reason I bring up MATLAB is that there is a concurrent thread about explaining a capacitor.  I wanted to graph the charge and discharge curves and it is easy to do this in MATLAB.

MATLAB is not cheap.  Are using the HOME version (which is reasonable)?  Octave is cheap (free...of course).

Yes, I am definitely using the Home edition of MATLAB.  There's no way I can afford a commercial license!  I also have a few add-ons that add to the annual fee.  Simulink is one and it is fantastic!  The Arduino interface package is pretty slick.

Octave will run the same exact script (generally).  I don't find the graph output as pleasing and I need to change the fontsize in the various titles but, other than that, Octave works well.  I haven't pursued add-ons with Octave.

MATLAB is pretty well respected in industry.  If I were going to specialize in MATLAB vs Octave, it would be MATLAB first.  For whatever reason, industry doesn't always line up for open source software.  Octave is still a first rate solver.  If I was tight for money or a fan of open source, Octave would be my first choice.

[Wimberleytech]

MATLAB is pretty well respected in industry. 

Indeed we used at all of the places where I have worked.

The kind of work I do not generally does not call for signal processing, so I cannot justify the cost.  If I take a case that needs it, I will justify the cost...always like buying new things!!!

I have octave installed for the rare need.

[Zero999]

Please explain the point here and examples of what you seem to believe is a better approach.

I'm not sure what you're asking for. LTSpice isn't real-time, whereas other simulators are. Seeing how things move around can help a lot, especially for beginners.

I agree that real time simulation can be beneficial for beginners, but woudn't recommend using it much beyond educational purposes.

The problem with any simulator is knowing its limitations.

[Mr. Scram]

I agree that real time simulation can be beneficial for beginners, but woudn't recommend using it much beyond educational purposes.

The problem with any simulator is knowing its limitations.

Agreed. Part of the issue seems to be that LTSpice was developed a while ago now, while these real-time simulators are more modern. The latter also seem to be less mature and more frivolous, sometimes omitting quite a bit of detail. It seems likely that they'll sooner or later mature, or that LTSpice or a successor evolve to include these more modern features. It's undeniable that LTSpice and compatible simulators are well supported by various manufacturers with all kinds of components being available, which is part of their value and why they endure.

[Zero999]

I agree that real time simulation can be beneficial for beginners, but woudn't recommend using it much beyond educational purposes.

The problem with any simulator is knowing its limitations.

Agreed. Part of the issue seems to be that LTSpice was developed a while ago now, while these real-time simulators are more modern. The latter also seem to be less mature and more frivolous, sometimes omitting quite a bit of detail. It seems likely that they'll sooner or later mature, or that LTSpice or a successor evolve to include these more modern features. It's undeniable that LTSpice and compatible simulators are well supported by various manufacturers with all kinds of components being available, which is part of their value and why they endure.

Real-time simulators are optimised for speed and not much else.

LTSpice is optimised for accuracy and is designed to be flexible and give repeatable results.

The requirements for real time simulators and more professional ones such as LTSpice are conflicting. It's not possible to make a real-time simulator as accurate and repeatable as LTSpice. Take a simple circuit with a push-button switch for example. In a real time simulator, the user will click on the switch component, to get the circuit to respond. In LTSpice, the user would implement it as a time controlled resistor, a voltage, or current controlled switch, with set on/off and rise/fall times. The interactive approach of the real-time simulator may seem easy and intuitive, but it's not as repeatable as the LTSpice approach, because it relies on user input, which is non-repeatable.