Electronics > Beginners

Hello, advice on my lab, and what solder to buy please

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tooki:
There's no need to rush. I think most people here will agree that, once you've got the basics, the best approach is to buy things as you discover you need them. (Yes, it's frustrating to not have it at the moment you need it, but it prevents stocking up on crap you never use.) For example, I know I need a function generator because on many occasions, I've been forced to use a phone app to generate signals (limiting it to audio frequencies, of course, among other limitations), or the super-basic square wave generators in some of my multimeters. So you'll discover what you need as you go. IMHO, other than the little things I mentioned, you've got a great setup already. Given the remaining budget, I think you'd be better off (for now) ordering a few $12 Aneng meters than blowing the rest of your budget on a bench meter, nice as they may be. If you google for it, there's an instruction somewhere on how to add some capacitors to the Aneng that makes them perform even better than they do out of the box.

I'm no expert on the BK Precision gear, but given that those are LED, they're probably too old to have the high speed that I find to be a bench meter's big advantage. (FYI, handheld meters, and old bench meters, generally have update rates of 2-5 times per second, vs the tens/hundreds/thousands/millions of updates per second of later bench meters.) Stick with a few handheld meters for now and see how you do.

The only meter speed thing I think is REALLY important is having a really good continuity tester. (Obviously, one single meter with this is sufficient.) Fluke is the hands-down champion in this, but what's really surprising is that a lot of cheap meters with mediocre continuity testers actually are being limited by their intolerance of crappy probes, and pairing them with high quality gold-plated probes improves their performance dramatically. The Aneng is a perfect example of this — continuity is "meh" with the included probes, and great with gold probes. Many of us on the forum (myself included) swear by Probe Master probes, since they are top-notch and nonetheless not particularly costly. One of the forum mods, Simon, even resells them in the UK. The other highly recommended gold probes are from Brymen. These are a bit more traditional looking than the Probe Master, and easier to procure outside of USA. A forum member, Franky, is well-known for having a reliable eBay store where many forum members go for test leads, including the gold Brymen probes.

tooki:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pm ---I don't disagree violently with anything you have said, but the higher melting point of lead free makes soldering a little more difficult and lead free is not really compatible with older equipment that you may be working on (lifting tracks etc.). 

--- End quote ---
IMHO, for new construction, the higher melting point (requiring a hotter iron) has one main disadvantage for beginners, which is that the added heat causes the solder to oxidize faster, so you really can't dawdle and rework, as novice solderers often do.

On the other hand, I completely agree with you that lead-free solder is totally unsuited for repairing pre-RoHS devices, as the older boards and components definitely were not designed to take that kind of heat. This alone should be reason enough for leaded solder to remain available to hobbyists, who may need to repair older gear. (The geniuses behind RoHS and REACH don't think of such things...)


--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pm ---In my experience, SnPbAg mixes very well with old and new solder (both leaded and lead free)...

--- End quote ---
I'm sure it does, but I don't find it burdensome to keep both kinds in my lab, so I use 63/37 and SAC305, depending on the job.


--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pm ---...and reliably yields beautiful shiny joints in pretty much all situations. To me, it is simpler to just always use it.

--- End quote ---
Well, one has to understand that solder shine isn't the same joint quality criterion in lead-free as in leaded. Lead-free is VERY hard to get glossy joints with, but it's also not necessary. A consistent, clean, but satin-finish joint is perfectly fine in lead-free. It shouldn't be dull/matte, but it needn't be a mirror shine. Aesthetics aren't reason enough to dismiss lead-free altogether. (As an aside, I actually find it easier to inspect the satiny lead-free joints, as they don't reflect the surrounding components as much as the mirror shine of leaded.)

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: tooki on December 31, 2019, 09:55:04 am ---[...] Aesthetics aren't reason enough to dismiss lead-free altogether. [...]

--- End quote ---

? ? ?  :scared:

Je suis une ARTISTE, m. Tooki!  - if it don't look good, it ain't good!   :-DD

mariush:

--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pm ---
Finally we come to solder:

Initially a couple of weeks ago I ordered the following solder

RS PRO 0.4mm Wire Lead solder, +183°C Melting Point •60/40 tin/lead solder wire with no rosin (colophony) in flux

However, while RS were happy to supply me with my other stuff, they said they weren't allowed to sell me leaded solder (or my solder paste) as it's for professional use only


--- Quote ---
Thank you for your order, we apologise but we are unable to despatch these items they are restricted.
 

REACH Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006

Substances restricted under REACH Annex XVII

These products contain a substance that is restricted under Annex XVII of the REACH Regulation.

It is restricted to professional users and cannot be supplied to the general public (non-trade customers).

Please refer to the Safety Data Sheet (SDS) for more information.
--- End quote ---

I presume at some point in the past, I have ticked the diy/hobby option on their info.

So I resorted to ebay, and ordered the following.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1MM-Tin-Lead-Flux-Solder-Welding-Iron-Line-Reel-Rosin-Core-Solder-Wire-PB37-SN63/254362182056?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=553927018746&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and bought it in both 0.4 and 0.5mm sizes.

As I'm unsure about the quality of ebay stuff, I also tried buying Multicore 0.5mm 60 / 40  solder from CPC (part of Farnell) at the same time.  They happily sold it to me :)

I want to make sure the solder I have is usable.

After reading this thread, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/solder-choice-aim-sn62pb36ag2-vs-mg-chemicals-6337-no-clean-leaded-solder/msg2834530/#msg2834530

I see on Farnell's UK site (not on CPC)  they have Kester solder

https://uk.farnell.com/kester-solder/24-6337-8806/solder-63-37-0-4mm/dp/1610447?st=63%2037%20solder  which is £58.66 once VAT is added.

I obviously don't want to throw money away, on the other hand, I don't want to be soldering with sub par solder.  If it is better than the CPC stuff, it will last me ages and I will buy it, if it's no better, then I wont :)


--- End quote ---

Please don't buy solder from no-name brands from eBay.  Should be  safe if they're Multicore/Kester or other well known brands, even if they're old stock like 5-10 years old...  flux inside the wire is relatively stable and will last for years inside the solder, and worst case scenario you can drag the solder wire through the folded napkin wet with isopropyl alcohol or acetone, to clean whatever oxides and impurities are now on the surface of the wire due to being stocked for so long time.

63/37 solder is very good, but I don't think you should get 0.4mm, it's a bit too thin. I personally use 0.56mm thick Multicore.

As for liquid flux, I use flux from a Polish company AG Thermopasty, which you can buy from TME.eu in big bottles :

long TME.eu link

Scroll down to bottles.  No-clean and RMA are fairly safe. The RMA ones are a bit more active, may need to be removed with isopropyl alcohol afterwards...  stay away from water soluble and try to avoid "organic" / "green" fluxes as they're more toxic for your lungs when they're burnt by the iron tip.
 
TME is a distributor  like Farnell or RS-Components or Digikey, I ordered from them in the past, they're safe to buy from

They also have cheaper LEDs and passives like resistors, capacitors etc, not as cheap as LCSC or chinese sellers on eBay but you also don't spend weeks waiting for your packages.



 

HobGoblyn:

--- Quote from: tooki on December 30, 2019, 10:40:32 am ---Finally, what I don't see on your list at all is MOSFETs. I find these easier to work with than BJTs in many cases. I suggest getting some logic-level n-channel MOSFETs like something in the IRLZ series, for example the IRLZ44N. (Twist the end of the leads 90˚ using flat pliers so that they won't damage the breadboard when inserted!)
--- End quote ---

Completely new to MOSFETs.

RS has: 
IRLZ34NPBF  (£2.40 each)
IRLZ44NPBF  (£2.40 each)
IRLZ44ZPBF  (£4.68 for 5)
IRLZ24NPBF  (84p each)
IRLZ24PBF    (£1.91 for 5)
IRLZ14PBF    (76p each)

Do I need a few of each type?  Happy to spend, but haven't a clue :)



--- Quote ---Tweezers. Absolutely essential for working with SMD, but also handy for all manner of other tasks. Invest in a top quality brand -- cheapies work OK, but the imprecisely ground tips just wobble around more. I happen to have a Wiha one and I'm thoroughly pleased with it.
--- End quote ---

I have a set, but they didn't cost a lot, and I find the ends of many to be very sharp and bend incredibly easily, so shall splash out on a decent pair.


--- Quote ---If you haven't already, invest in a pair of top quality forged diagonal cutters, like Knipex 77 or 79 series, or Erem, and never, ever let them near anything but copper wire, solder, and soft plastic, so as to maintain their edge. They will reward you with effortless cutting. Try to get a pair with the wire retainer that keeps the snippings from flying across the room. (Regular stamped cutters, even from top brands, aren't quite as precise, and take a bit more effort. Additionally, those struggle with non-wire items like heat shrink tubing, whereas the forged ones will cut those neatly.)
--- End quote ---


I have a pair of cheap cutters, but not very good.   

Will these be OK or do I need to spend more? https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cutters/1585710/

When you say only to use them on copper and solder, does that mean I need something else to cut the legs off caps and resistors?


--- Quote ---The other big thing I don't see on your list is anything Arduino. That's a great way to get started with microcontrollers, which nowadays are an inescapable core competency in electronics. (You, being an experienced programmer, will have a leg up in this!) There are some great Arduino kits on eBay that come with dozens of sensors, displays, and other doohickeys, knick-knacks, and gewgaws. Those are awesome for learning how to interface with real-world peripheral devices, as well as the pitfalls and limitations of the Arduino ecosystem (and why you might eventually leave it for a more "grown up" development environment).
--- End quote ---

I've got one of those kits  (Uno) with every sensor known to mankind :)  Will  also order a few clone uno/nano and mega boards

Many thanks

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