Electronics > Beginners

Hello, advice on my lab, and what solder to buy please

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HobGoblyn:

--- Quote from: mariush on December 31, 2019, 03:51:21 pm ---
Scroll down to bottles.  No-clean and RMA are fairly safe. The RMA ones are a bit more active, may need to be removed with isopropyl alcohol afterwards...  stay away from water soluble and try to avoid "organic" / "green" fluxes as they're more toxic for your lungs when they're burnt by the iron tip.
--- End quote ---

Something like

https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/te410_1/fluxes/cynel/

I presume I should avoid lead free flux as I'm using lead solder?

Many thanks




 

mariush:

--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:12:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: mariush on December 31, 2019, 03:51:21 pm ---
Scroll down to bottles.  No-clean and RMA are fairly safe. The RMA ones are a bit more active, may need to be removed with isopropyl alcohol afterwards...  stay away from water soluble and try to avoid "organic" / "green" fluxes as they're more toxic for your lungs when they're burnt by the iron tip.
--- End quote ---

Something like

https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/te410_1/fluxes/cynel/

I presume I should avoid lead free flux as I'm using lead solder?

Many thanks

--- End quote ---

I can't vouch for Cynel, which as far as I know is some Spanish brand.  In the past, I checked reviews of solders on Youtube and Cynel solders weren't great compared to others. I don't know how well the fluxes are, they may be ok, I just can't recommend them as I never personally used them.

I use the fluxes from AG Thermopasty, in particular the TK series (no clean, rosin based, can be left on board after use, it's not so active to require cleaning) :

50ml : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_50/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-044/
100ml : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_100/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-045/

Lead free flux can be used with leaded solder. 

Flux doesn't have lead anyway, so the term is somewhat incorrect.  Basically, when they say lead free, they just mean it's a flux formula that's optimized for lead free solders, which require higher temperature to melt (you need 180c for 60/40 or 183 for 63/37 but ~215-217c for lead free solders, so you often can live with 300c set on iron tips with leaded solders, but may need 350c on lead free solders).

So, the idea is these lead free fluxes are a bit stronger because they have to activate and do their work in much shorter time, before the higher heat from the solder iron tip burns the flux. 
Stronger fluxes means worse for your lungs if you breathe in the flux vapors   


To add to this thread, I'd suggest also buying a crimping tool for making your own connectors, if you didn't already buy one.
A very good one is this one, which can crimp lots of series of connectors from AWG 28 to AWG18 wires : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/fut.pa-20/crimping-tools-for-terminals/engineer/pa-20/

It's expensive, but worth it.

And if you place order at TME, you may want to consider buying a bottle of isopropyl alcohol (for electronics, you can get 97% or better), they have them in bottles up to 1 liter : https://www.tme.eu/gb/katalog/?search=isopropyl%20alcohol&s_field=1000014&s_order=desc&limit=20&currency=GBP&page=1

not1xor1:

--- Quote from: magic on December 29, 2019, 10:53:06 pm ---That's RoHS and it has nothing to do with consumer use.

Leaded solder is banned in the EU because somebody really smart determined that it may cause birth defects if ingested ::)

We should probably request a similar investigation into the fluxes used in lead-free solders now ;D

--- End quote ---

It looks like hunters have no restriction and can go on spreading lead into the environment (17500 tons per year in Italy alone).
BTW a while ago I read that game eaters have high levels of lead in their body because bullets fragment in many small pieces and so it is not possible to completely remove it from the meat.

HobGoblyn:

--- Quote from: mariush on December 31, 2019, 04:28:36 pm ---

I can't vouch for Cynel, which as far as I know is some Spanish brand.  In the past, I checked reviews of solders on Youtube and Cynel solders weren't great compared to others. I don't know how well the fluxes are, they may be ok, I just can't recommend them as I never personally used them.

I use the fluxes from AG Thermopasty, in particular the TK series (no clean, rosin based, can be left on board after use, it's not so active to require cleaning) :

50ml : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_50/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-044/
100ml : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_100/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-045/
--- End quote ---

Many thanks I will order the 100ml, would much rather order something someone can vouch for than do a lucky dip


--- Quote --- 


To add to this thread, I'd suggest also buying a crimping tool for making your own connectors, if you didn't already buy one.
A very good one is this one, which can crimp lots of series of connectors from AWG 28 to AWG18 wires : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/fut.pa-20/crimping-tools-for-terminals/engineer/pa-20/

It's expensive, but worth it.
--- End quote ---

I will add that to my order

I  bought 1lt of 99% isopropyl alcohol a couple of weeks ago :)

Many thanks for your help

I'm very nearly there

tooki:

--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on December 30, 2019, 10:40:32 am ---Finally, what I don't see on your list at all is MOSFETs. I find these easier to work with than BJTs in many cases. I suggest getting some logic-level n-channel MOSFETs like something in the IRLZ series, for example the IRLZ44N. (Twist the end of the leads 90˚ using flat pliers so that they won't damage the breadboard when inserted!)
--- End quote ---

Completely new to MOSFETs.

RS has: 
IRLZ34NPBF  (£2.40 each)
IRLZ44NPBF  (£2.40 each)
IRLZ44ZPBF  (£4.68 for 5)
IRLZ24NPBF  (84p each)
IRLZ24PBF    (£1.91 for 5)
IRLZ14PBF    (76p each)

Do I need a few of each type?  Happy to spend, but haven't a clue :)

--- End quote ---
Nah. I'd just go for whatever's cheapest, so in this case, the IRLZ24PBF 5-pack for 1.91. It's a nice part with balanced characteristics that'll do fine for experimenting with a few amps load (for example, PWM dimming an LED strip using an Arduino or 555 timer). Later, if/when you have a specific use case in mind, you can go about choosing an optimized part (e.g. one optimized for speed vs one optimized for higher current).



--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm ---
--- Quote ---Tweezers. Absolutely essential for working with SMD, but also handy for all manner of other tasks. Invest in a top quality brand -- cheapies work OK, but the imprecisely ground tips just wobble around more. I happen to have a Wiha one and I'm thoroughly pleased with it.
--- End quote ---

I have a set, but they didn't cost a lot, and I find the ends of many to be very sharp and bend incredibly easily, so shall splash out on a decent pair.
--- End quote ---
RS seems to have a lot of name-brand tweezers with variously sharp points, and likely any of them would be fine.

I know Idealtek is a good brand, made in Switzerland, and nonetheless not expensive:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/7870279/ (bare)
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/1367337/ (with grippy black paint, like mine)
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/1367329/ (with foam handles)

(These are the same shape/size as my Wiha tweezers, the "AA SA" type. There seems to be some agreement between manufacturers about these designations.)



--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm ---
--- Quote ---If you haven't already, invest in a pair of top quality forged diagonal cutters, like Knipex 77 or 79 series, or Erem, and never, ever let them near anything but copper wire, solder, and soft plastic, so as to maintain their edge. They will reward you with effortless cutting. Try to get a pair with the wire retainer that keeps the snippings from flying across the room. (Regular stamped cutters, even from top brands, aren't quite as precise, and take a bit more effort. Additionally, those struggle with non-wire items like heat shrink tubing, whereas the forged ones will cut those neatly.)
--- End quote ---


I have a pair of cheap cutters, but not very good.   

Will these be OK or do I need to spend more? https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cutters/1585710/
--- End quote ---
Those will do perfectly. In fact, I was just looking at those in a store the other day and was very impressed by them. The jaws are very, very precisely made.

RS also carries a wide selection of Idealtek cutters and pliers. I don't have any personal experience with them, but I'd expect them to be of equivalent quality. (I talk about Knipex stuff because I have lots of hands-on experience with it.)



--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm ---When you say only to use them on copper and solder, does that mean I need something else to cut the legs off caps and resistors?
--- End quote ---
I apologize, I oversimplified.

Basically, the idea is to avoid cutting excessively hard and/or thick wire. Copper, aluminum, lead, plastic, etc. are all very soft and electronics-thickness wire will not damage the blades. Steel covers a large range of hardnesses, but the thin steel of electronic components will absolutely not be a problem. The main purpose of these cutters is to trim component legs, cut thin wires, and trim small zip ties, so you'll definitely be fine cutting those. Just don't be tempted to cut piano wire, wire fencing and things like that with them.

If you look at the Knipex catalog, it lists the maximum capacity for its cutters, for soft, medium, and hard wires, and for super-hard wire like piano wire. For example, on that model, 1.6mm/1.2/0.6mm/- diameter, respectively. (The limits are also printed right on the handle of the cutters!) So you wouldn't use these cutters to cut nails, nor would you use them to cut 6mm thick copper mains wiring. Not that you'd want to given their size! :)


Speaking of Knipex, I just remembered two things you might consider, if you don't already own some: round-nose pliers (like 35 32 115) and flat-jaw pliers (like 35 12 115). I've come to rely on these constantly for forming component legs, bending wires, etc. The round-nose ones don't need the tight precision of the cutters and flat-jaw pliers, so if you need to economize, they're the ones where I would go cheaper, just make sure they're small.


Reichelt, a German mail-order vendor with an explicit UK site, carries a much larger Knipex selection than RS, and at lower prices. In fact, they have the same round-nose pliers I have (the 34 32 130) on sale now for £25: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/precision-electronics-gripping-pliers-round-pointed-kn-34-32-130-p66314.html?&trstct=pol_4

The 77 02 115 cutters are £28: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/side-cutters-115-mm-small-bevel-kn-77-02-115-p24879.html?&trstct=pol_5

And the 35 12 115 flat-jaw pliers for £23: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/electronics-gripping-pliers-115-mm-flat-wide-jaws-kn-35-12-115-p24896.html?&trstct=pol_2

They also carry Knipex tweezers that appear identical to my daily-driver Wiha: https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/precision-tweezers-esd-kn-92-28-69-esd-p184292.html?&trstct=pol_1


Even with £9 shipping, you'd likely come out ahead on those, plus they have many other Knipex models, too.





--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm ---
--- Quote ---The other big thing I don't see on your list is anything Arduino. That's a great way to get started with microcontrollers, which nowadays are an inescapable core competency in electronics. (You, being an experienced programmer, will have a leg up in this!) There are some great Arduino kits on eBay that come with dozens of sensors, displays, and other doohickeys, knick-knacks, and gewgaws. Those are awesome for learning how to interface with real-world peripheral devices, as well as the pitfalls and limitations of the Arduino ecosystem (and why you might eventually leave it for a more "grown up" development environment).
--- End quote ---

I've got one of those kits  (Uno) with every sensor known to mankind :)  Will  also order a few clone uno/nano and mega boards

--- End quote ---
OK, then you're set! :) In fact, maybe just wait on the mega (just get one if you actually exceed the capabilities of an uno/nano) and just get a couple of $2 uno/nano clones from eBay so you aren't monopolizing the one Uno. :)

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