| Electronics > Beginners |
| Help with buying a first oscilloscope |
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| Old Printer:
--- Quote from: yngndrw on July 15, 2018, 09:45:34 pm ---I can't comment on the Siglents as I've never used one, but I'd advise staying well clear of the Rigol DS1054Z. I was in the market for a new oscilloscope and for my money I had the choice between a new Rigol DS1054Z and a used Keysight DSOX2002A for around the same money. (Both of which can be hacked to unlock extra features) I decided based on a thread on here to go for the Rigol DS1054Z and while the extra channels are useful and the scope generally does the job, the performance is appalling. The lag when adjusting the vertical position makes using the oscilloscope a chore. How they can make something with such dismal performance and decide to sell it is beyond me, but here we are. Either way I regret my decision and wish I'd gone for the Keysight DSOX2002A, but sadly I can't can't roll back the clock now. Like I say I can't judge the Siglent as I've never used one, but I'm very wary of these budget brands now - The user interface is everything on a device that you're constantly interacting with. --- End quote --- Is your scope use professional or hobby? Is this your "home" scope, and do you use a very good/fast scope at work. I can see your point much better if you use a scope a lot, like all day. For people tinkering nights and weekends this is one of the prices to be paid for having a pretty sophisticated piece of equipment on our desk at home at a price that is affordable or justifiable. I have read most of the threads on the 1054 in the last year and this is the first I can recall being so disappointed in the UI speed. I can live with things at a hobby level I could not tolerate at work. |
| yngndrw:
Well my usage is hobby and I am employed in a different industry (Software) so I don't have one at work. It's a fair point about how much you use these particular features and for my usage, it varies considerably. Vertical position for example is only used when you're using multiple channels and you need to switch between displaying multiple signals and comparing related signals. Having said that for a four channel scope where one of the selling points is that it has four channels over two, I think it's a really big let down as it does impact your use of the four channels. It really doesn't matter how much the scope is used or even the specific features, what Rigol has produced simply isn't of the quality that we should expect for (Any amount of) our hard-earned money. This example isn't an obscure feature such as FFT, it's vertical position which is a core feature of any oscilloscope. The low price is mentioned a lot and for the on paper performance (50MHz over four channels) it is decent, but considering that the used price isn't much lower than the new price due to the lack of availability of used items and what else you can get on the used market from the big brands (Such as the Keysight DSOX2002A which is around the same money if you wait for one to come up, albeit with two less channels - But how often do we need four ? I got greedy with the number of channels) it simply isn't good enough. And it's not just one feature that's slow, there's the trigger level adjustment, scrolling as well as the UI performance in general. The performance bothers me so much that I actively avoid using it, to the extend where after moving house I didn't even bother getting it back out of the box. To me, it's such a prominent issue that I'm left wondering why there aren't more complaints about this - Are people just being extra forgiving because it's a bit cheaper or does everyone else just have different expectations of test equipment ? |
| Old Printer:
--- Quote from: yngndrw on July 16, 2018, 12:58:32 pm ---Well my usage is hobby and I am employed in a different industry (Software) so I don't have one at work. It's a fair point about how much you use these particular features and for my usage, it varies considerably. Vertical position for example is only used when you're using multiple channels and you need to switch between displaying multiple signals and comparing related signals. Having said that for a four channel scope where one of the selling points is that it has four channels over two, I think it's a really big let down as it does impact your use of the four channels. It really doesn't matter how much the scope is used or even the specific features, what Rigol has produced simply isn't of the quality that we should expect for (Any amount of) our hard-earned money. This example isn't an obscure feature such as FFT, it's vertical position which is a core feature of any oscilloscope. The low price is mentioned a lot and for the on paper performance (50MHz over four channels) it is decent, but considering that the used price isn't much lower than the new price due to the lack of availability of used items and what else you can get on the used market from the big brands (Such as the Keysight DSOX2002A which is around the same money if you wait for one to come up, albeit with two less channels - But how often do we need four ? I got greedy with the number of channels) it simply isn't good enough. And it's not just one feature that's slow, there's the trigger level adjustment, scrolling as well as the UI performance in general. The performance bothers me so much that I actively avoid using it, to the extend where after moving house I didn't even bother getting it back out of the box. To me, it's such a prominent issue that I'm left wondering why there aren't more complaints about this - Are people just being extra forgiving because it's a bit cheaper or does everyone else just have different expectations of test equipment ? --- End quote --- I very much would like four individual channel controls, but the next scope I could find in the new market was a GW Instek at about $1100 USD. That's about $600 more and that is a lot of money on a hobby purchase. If you could come up with a good competitor within $200-300 that met your wants, I would be very interested. Right now I am focusing on the 4 channel Siglent unless something better comes along. Keysight makes great equipment, but they are just too pricey for my needs/wants. Everybody has to draw their own price line. |
| rstofer:
That DSOX2002A is a $1300 scope, about 3 times as much as the Rigol so, sure, I would expect a higher level of performance. None of the options, like decoding, are free so that drives the cost up and decoding was the reason I bought the Rigol. The DSOX2002A has a very fast sample rate for a 2 channel scope but it doesn't have very much sample memory compared to the Rigol. It's only 70 MHz vs 100 MHz and it's only 2 channels and that's a show-stopper if the entire reason for buying the scope was to decode both sides of an SPI transaction. The DSOX2002A would never have been on my short list. Buying used to get the price down is always a questionable idea. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. What you don't have is NEW with a warranty. Keysight has a factory store on eBay and I believe those scopes do come with a warranty. I didn't see a DSOX2002A on eBay... Still, if you find one, you should swap out your Rigol. They are in stock at Newark for $1340 but that's full price and no options. I suspect by the time you get all the features of the Rigol, you're probably looking at $2000 or probably higher. Any time a supplier has a "Get Quote" button, I know I can't afford it! I see Siglent taking over the entry level market but they're late to the game. Rigol has flooded the market. Early bird and all that... I haven't seen enough review videos to know what to think about the Siglent UI and I'm not necessarily in the market for another scope. That 4 channel 200 MHz version (SDS1204X-E) is very appealing. I just don't have your level of concern about the UI. It's not great but I just don't use it enough for it to worry me a lot. |
| yngndrw:
Well the DSOX2002A is just as hackable as the DS1054Z, for the decoding options and bandwidth. Having said that, I'd personally prefer to use a USB logic analyser over a scope for decoding so can't say I've ever used the decoding options myself. (Although I guess a scope would be convenient to decode RS232-level serial due to its wide input range) Using a dedicated logic analyser removes the issue regarding channels, bringing me back to the question of whether or not the vast majority of us need four channels as opposed to want. Just to be clear on price, there have been some DSOX2002As on Ebay for £600 that didn't sell, so I don't think an offer of £500 would have been rejected at the time. They aren't always on there, but that kind of scope does come up if you wait a little. If you can wait, they are comparable to the DS1054Z. The SDS1104X-E looks to be priced well, but I'd worry about the UI performance for my self especially seems as nobody reported the issues on the Rigol as much as I'd like - I've already been bitten myself. |
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