Author Topic: Hookup wire  (Read 5012 times)

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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Hookup wire
« on: June 06, 2019, 08:37:05 pm »
Is 26 gauge hookup wire ok for my circuit board ?

I am using PCB boards. I think the holes are the standard width apart.
 

Online MarkF

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 08:41:37 pm »
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 08:43:57 pm by MarkF »
 
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Offline DDunfield

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 09:05:27 pm »
Depends on what your circuit board is doing...

If it's jellybean low level signalling etc., it's probably more than enough.

If it's driving the primary side of a high power inverter ... probably not so much.

Wire size suitability depends on the current being carried.

Dave
 
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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 09:32:59 pm »
Sure.
I even use down to 30AWG solid wire-wrapping wire for low current signal connections.

For example:  https://www.amazon.com/YXQ-Breadboard-B-30-1000-Plated-Wrapping/dp/B015L1HVQS/ref=sr_1_17?crid=RV599SW72NHD&keywords=30+awg+wire+wrap&qid=1559853742&s=gateway&sprefix=30+awf+wire%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-17

I read where wire wrapping has some advantages over solder. Though corrosion and dirt could be introduced.

Does it work in IC chips too?

 

Online MarkF

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 09:53:18 pm »
Sure.
I even use down to 30AWG solid wire-wrapping wire for low current signal connections.

For example:  https://www.amazon.com/YXQ-Breadboard-B-30-1000-Plated-Wrapping/dp/B015L1HVQS/ref=sr_1_17?crid=RV599SW72NHD&keywords=30+awg+wire+wrap&qid=1559853742&s=gateway&sprefix=30+awf+wire%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-17

I read where wire wrapping has some advantages over solder. Though corrosion and dirt could be introduced.

Does it work in IC chips too?

You mean actual wire-wrapping or just using the wire as hookup wire to solder?
I use it for both.  Just because I have the wire.  The WW sockets themselves are getting hard to find and expensive.

Wire-wrapping use to be used all the time before PCB were available.
The company I worked for at the time wire-wrapped almost everything.  Large racks (2x3 ft panels with six in a rack).


Edit-
I believe you had to have between 4 to 6 turns per post for a reliable connection.  At least that's what I aim for. 
It's been years since I've seen it used commercially.  It was just as secure as soldering.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 09:57:55 pm by MarkF »
 
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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2019, 09:59:10 pm »
I misunderstand.

The tool isn't that expensive but the powered ones are.

 

Online MarkF

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 10:24:34 pm »
I just use the basic hand tool:
https://www.amazon.com/Strip-Unwrap-Cable-Prototyping-Wrapping/dp/B07L6GDXF1/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=wire+wrap+tool+power&qid=1559859258&s=industrial&sr=1-3

Even the mechanical ones are expensive and you still need to buy the bit.  I have one of these and don't use it. 
https://www.specialized.net/tools/wire-wrap-tools/wire-wrap-guns/jonard-ok-industries-g100-r3278ins-manual-wire-wrap-tool-ins.html

And the power ones:
https://www.specialized.net/tools/wire-wrap-tools/wire-wrap-guns/jdv-standard-pneumatic-sp-6021-electric-wire-wrap-gun-tool.html

Just the first ones to show up on Google.

I was just talking about the wire-wrap IC sockets.  I want to say they are around $5.00 each.

I would just use the wire with the cheap proto-boards and solder it.  Wire-wrapping is too expensive any more.  Especially, when you can get PCB made for $2.00 at JCLPCB.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 11:44:33 pm »
I already bought some of these.

After I use them up I will use the cheaper ones.

 

Online MarkF

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 11:59:33 pm »
I've been using the green ones like you shown with no bus bars.
 
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Online David Hess

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 03:21:49 am »
24 AWG is usually the smallest I use for mechanical reasons but 26 AWG can work fine also.  Get a good set of wire strippers.
 
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 04:15:51 am »
I also use 30AWG single/solid conductor "wrapping wire" more than just about anything else for circuit board-level work, whether pcb rework or for use with protoboards. It looks "wrong" because the holes in the protoboard are so large. But as long as the wires are kept short, they can pass a lot of current with minimal voltage drop and heat. 

There are multiple reasons to use wire this thin besides cost. It is very easy to strip. The small cross section means that the insulation doesn't have time to melt while soldering the connection. And the very thin insulation and conductor make for high density connections without building a mess, and small enough to fit to the pins of almost any IC.

You would think it is too thin to be reliable, mechanically, but IME it works great once you get the hang of getting the wires the right length and placement. Getting the jumpers where they won't be disturbed works a lot better than trying to use wire so thick that it can handle abuse.
 
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Offline bob91343

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 06:04:04 am »
If you really want to get scientific, use a wire size such that the current density in the wire is low.  A rule of thumb might be 400 circular mils per ampere.  Look in a wire chart for the circular mils of the wire size you want to use and divide by the current you expect.  If the result is above 400 you are safe.  (the value 400 is arbitrary based on experience)

Of course there is more to it than that.  Wire has resistance and inductance, so it's possible those parameters will be limiting the suitability of a given wire size.  Plus, thin wire is fragile.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 05:02:27 pm »
If you really want to get scientific, use a wire size such that the current density in the wire is low.  A rule of thumb might be 400 circular mils per ampere.  Look in a wire chart for the circular mils of the wire size you want to use and divide by the current you expect.  If the result is above 400 you are safe.  (the value 400 is arbitrary based on experience)

Of course there is more to it than that.  Wire has resistance and inductance, so it's possible those parameters will be limiting the suitability of a given wire size.  Plus, thin wire is fragile.

I think I will try 22 gauge. Like you said, thinner wire is fragile.

So far, my projects have been low power.

I will use P = E squared  when I get to the point of more complex circuits.
              -----------------
                R

Future projects will be to use AC current for transformers to step down current.

I salvaged a lot of parts from a laser printer.

I think the bulb for the drum is what draws the most current. The input has a 15 amp fuse.




 

Offline bob91343

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2019, 06:01:29 pm »
You may learn, as I have, that salvaging parts from old discarded gear can be very useful.  I have a house full of components of many types, including diodes, transistors, ICs, motors, fans, transformers, capacitors, fuses, on and on.  I file them so that if I need something I can usually find it.

This has paid off for me over and over.  Not only in saving money by already having what I need, but also saving time in searching for sources as well as being able to get on with the current project.

Of course, as in my case, one can carry it too far.  One needs to realize that most people would think it's foolish but I don't much care what people think.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2019, 07:18:25 pm »
You may learn, as I have, that salvaging parts from old discarded gear can be very useful.  I have a house full of components of many types, including diodes, transistors, ICs, motors, fans, transformers, capacitors, fuses, on and on.  I file them so that if I need something I can usually find it.

This has paid off for me over and over.  Not only in saving money by already having what I need, but also saving time in searching for sources as well as being able to get on with the current project.

Of course, as in my case, one can carry it too far.  One needs to realize that most people would think it's foolish but I don't much care what people think.

It is definitely not foolish.

You are recycling what would end up in a landfill. That's commendable.

Just a few things I have found in dumpsters or had been put out for trash in the last  6 months.

Hard drives from a DVR

Enough wood to fill a small closet

Ironing board that had a broken weld

Take care,
                 Andy

 

Offline DBecker

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2019, 08:37:25 pm »
If you really want to get scientific, use a wire size such that the current density in the wire is low. 

Ampacity is primarily based on heat dissipation, not current density.  You have to get to nm scale before current density and electromigration becomes an issue.

Circuit boards can support high current density compared to round wires because of the large surface area.  Small wires are similar -- there is still lots of surface area to shed the heat.

I wonder how much wire wrapping is still done today.  30+ years ago I wire-wrapped my own prototype boards.  The large ones had thousands of connections.  The only way to do those with reliability and  few enough errors was to use an X-Y position machine and a wire-wrap gun.  It's easy to forget how literally painful and tedious that was, for only mediocre (10-50MHz) performance.  The only benefit was how easily fixes and enhancements were made.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of "wire wrap" wire used now is soldered board patches.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2019, 09:36:04 pm »
I have done my own informal tests on 30AWG kynar wire. With a 1 foot section, touching nothing but room temp air, the wire overheats enough to melt insulation at something around 6A. The copper starts to glow  somewhere between 6-10A. Obviously, if ambient temp is higher (crammed in a box of electronics) these figures would be lower. And if bundled in a cable with other high current wires, etc.

But if you are doing only very short jumpers to a circuit board, the circuit board will sink heat, too.

The current you can pass depends on the situation. I don't even blink using 30AWG for up to 3A on things for my own use, where airflow/temp isn't an issue, even though the charts I've seen suggest the max is closer to half an A. Obviously, you have to consider all factors when doing this, including voltage drop due to the resistance of the wire (which increases a bit with temp).

« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 09:44:05 pm by KL27x »
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2019, 04:40:02 am »
I also use 30AWG single/solid conductor "wrapping wire" more than just about anything else for circuit board-level work, whether pcb rework or for use with protoboards. It looks "wrong" because the holes in the protoboard are so large. But as long as the wires are kept short, they can pass a lot of current with minimal voltage drop and heat. 

There are multiple reasons to use wire this thin besides cost. It is very easy to strip. The small cross section means that the insulation doesn't have time to melt while soldering the connection. And the very thin insulation and conductor make for high density connections without building a mess, and small enough to fit to the pins of almost any IC.

You would think it is too thin to be reliable, mechanically, but IME it works great once you get the hang of getting the wires the right length and placement. Getting the jumpers where they won't be disturbed works a lot better than trying to use wire so thick that it can handle abuse.

I also use 30 gauge silver plated Kynar insulated wire wrap wire for point to point work but solid wire like this is not suitable for high vibration environments unless secured.  With the Kynar insulation, it is available in all of the standard colors.

But 30 gauge magnet wire with the insulation which burns off at soldering iron temperatures is even better if you do not require color coding and even this is available in a few different colors and it is less expensive.  Since no wire strippers are needed, there is no issue with nicking the wire and it is faster to use.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2019, 04:45:20 am »
When you are looking for reliability you can always "glue" it down with some solder-able conformal coat removes issues with vibration.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2019, 04:58:22 am »
When you are looking for reliability you can always "glue" it down with some solder-able conformal coat removes issues with vibration.

Super glue works well for this.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2019, 10:53:39 am »
You are recycling what would end up in a landfill. That's commendable.

I tried using that argument with my wife and she says converting the house into a landfill is not commendable. :)
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2019, 05:06:42 pm »
It can go too far. My dad grew up in the depression and often went hungry.I do

He kept screws, bolts, etc in glass peanut butter jars.

I do the same thing except in small quantities.

 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2019, 07:52:43 pm »
I tried using that argument with my wife and she says converting the house into a landfill is not commendable. :)

hmm, what's about all those women? they seem to just not understand, that men evolutionary stayed what they always have been: hunter-gatherers
it's a pain; maybe the best solution is to keep wives out of the lab and adjacent areas
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2019, 11:46:28 am »
You are recycling what would end up in a landfill. That's commendable.

I tried using that argument with my wife and she says converting the house into a landfill is not commendable. :)
I have the same problem, except it’s an inner dialog... part of my brain wants to live fairly minimalist, the other part hates throwing away “useful” stuff...
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Hookup wire
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 11:51:05 am »
It can go too far. My dad grew up in the depression and often went hungry.I do

He kept screws, bolts, etc in glass peanut butter jars.

I do the same thing except in small quantities.
Like this guy?  ;D



And the follow up:


 
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