Electronics > Beginners

How fast is a beginner supposed to grow/learn/make?

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scatterandfocus:
Charles Proteus Steinmetz wrote an interesting paper in 1908 on electrical engineering education.  Here is a snippet of it to draw you in:


--- Quote ---https://www.eeekenya.com/electrical-engineering-education-by-charles-p-steinmetz/

To the subjects taught and the methods of teaching very grave objections may be made. The glaring fault of the college curriculum is that quantity and not quality seems to be the object sought: the amount of instruction crowded into a four years’ course is far beyond that which even the better kind of student can possibly digest. Memorizing details largely takes the place of understanding principles, with the result that a year after graduation much of the matter which had been taught has passed out of the memory of the student, and even examinations given to the senior class on subjects taught during the freshman and sophomore years, reveal conditions which are startling and rather condemnatory to the present methods of teaching.

It stands to reason that with the limited time at his disposal, it is inadvisable for a student to waste time on anything which he forgets in a year or two; only that which it is necessary to know should be taught, and then it should be taught so that at least the better student understands it so thoroughly as never to forget it. That is to say, far better results would be obtained if half or more of the mass of details which the college now attempts to teach, were dropped; if there were taught only the most important subjects-the fundamental principles and their applications-in short, all that is vitally necessary to an intelligent understanding of engineering, but this taught thoroughly, so as not to be forgotten. This, however, requires a far higher grade of teachers than are needed for the mere memorizing of text-book matters, reciting them, at the end of the term passing an examination on the subject and then dropping it.  The salaries offered by the colleges are not such as to attract such men. When the student enters college he is not receptive to an intelligent understanding, for after a four years’ dose in the high school of the same vicious method of memorizing a large mass of half and even less understood matters, the student finds it far easier to memorize the contents of his textbooks than to use his intelligence to understand the subject matter. After graduation, years of practice do for the better class of students what the college should have done-teach them to understand things. It is, however, significant that even now young graduates of foreign universities, in spite of the inferior facilities afforded abroad, do some of the most important electrical development work of this country. Men who never had a college education rise ahead of college graduates. This would be impossible if our college training gave what it should, an intelligent understanding of electrical engineering subjects.
--- End quote ---

FreddieChopin:

--- Quote from: scatterandfocus on September 22, 2019, 05:40:54 am ---Charles Proteus Steinmetz wrote an interesting paper in 1908 on electrical engineering education.  Here is a snippet of it to draw you in:


--- Quote ---https://www.eeekenya.com/electrical-engineering-education-by-charles-p-steinmetz/

To the subjects taught and the methods of teaching very grave objections may be made. The glaring fault of the college curriculum is that quantity and not quality seems to be the object sought: the amount of instruction crowded into a four years’ course is far beyond that which even the better kind of student can possibly digest. Memorizing details largely takes the place of understanding principles, with the result that a year after graduation much of the matter which had been taught has passed out of the memory of the student, and even examinations given to the senior class on subjects taught during the freshman and sophomore years, reveal conditions which are startling and rather condemnatory to the present methods of teaching.

It stands to reason that with the limited time at his disposal, it is inadvisable for a student to waste time on anything which he forgets in a year or two; only that which it is necessary to know should be taught, and then it should be taught so that at least the better student understands it so thoroughly as never to forget it. That is to say, far better results would be obtained if half or more of the mass of details which the college now attempts to teach, were dropped; if there were taught only the most important subjects-the fundamental principles and their applications-in short, all that is vitally necessary to an intelligent understanding of engineering, but this taught thoroughly, so as not to be forgotten. This, however, requires a far higher grade of teachers than are needed for the mere memorizing of text-book matters, reciting them, at the end of the term passing an examination on the subject and then dropping it.  The salaries offered by the colleges are not such as to attract such men. When the student enters college he is not receptive to an intelligent understanding, for after a four years’ dose in the high school of the same vicious method of memorizing a large mass of half and even less understood matters, the student finds it far easier to memorize the contents of his textbooks than to use his intelligence to understand the subject matter. After graduation, years of practice do for the better class of students what the college should have done-teach them to understand things. It is, however, significant that even now young graduates of foreign universities, in spite of the inferior facilities afforded abroad, do some of the most important electrical development work of this country. Men who never had a college education rise ahead of college graduates. This would be impossible if our college training gave what it should, an intelligent understanding of electrical engineering subjects.
--- End quote ---

I once heared a quote: if someone can work he works, if he's too incompetent for work then he teaches if he is too noob to teach the he becomes a subhuman.
--- End quote ---

nigelwright7557:
I have been in electronics for 40 years and have never stopped learning.
Always something new coming out.

worsthorse:

--- Quote from: rstofer on September 20, 2019, 02:25:57 pm ---At a hobby level, most 'make' projects are copy-and-paste.  Somebody else did the engineering calcs and thousands of people use the results.  Progress in the 'make' field can be quite fast as long as the hobbyist doesn't bother to go back and figure out how the circuit really works.  I'm thinking about the simple 1 transistor capacitor coupled amplifier with emitter degeneration.  There's a lot of arithmetic in that little circuit.

What is being 'learned'?  Unless the hobbyist is willing to spend the time with datasheets and calculations, the project is just copy-and-paste and very little is actually learned.  That's why college doesn't spend all that much time in the lab and lots of time with calcs.  The standing joke is that new engineers couldn't build a circuit if their life depended on it.  But there wouldn't be a design for the technicians to build were it not for engineers doing the math.

First, decide 'at what level' and then decide on what is to be learned.

--- End quote ---

I don't know if I agree with this. Well, actually I do know, I don't agree that hobbyists are mostly restricted to doing cut-and-paste copies of some engineer's design.  All you have to do is pick up a copy of Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur, Art of Electronics, or EMRFD to see that hobbyists, if willing to learn some practical theory and rules, are capable of building quite sophisticated electronic equipment.

I say this as a hobbyist who happens to have a degree in electrical engineering and experience building commercial gear. I think a substantive difference between engineering and hobbyist level work is in reproducibility, reliability, and predictability rather than electronics theory.  As an engineer I focus on designing stuff that can be manufactured, installed, used, maintained and make a profit. As a hobbyist, I probably don't care about any of those things very much. Think of it this way: the hobbyist' work usually stops at the prototype and the engineer's work really starts there.

Why does this matter?  Because it is easy to think, as a beginner, that you have to have an engineering or software degree or a lot of maths training before you will know enough to design and build interesting stuff and that just isn't so.  Should a beginner eventually know how to work with complex numbers, understand vectors, etc? Yes, eventually and for the same reasons they will want to work their way through a book like Electronics of Radio or spend some time learning how to solder or use an oscilloscope.  But do you need a lot of finite analysis or calculus or solid state physics to design and build interesting and complex circuits? Not really, though you better know all that stuff if you are planning on building a thousand of anything.

PS - I do agree with one thing... if you are going to design stuff, you will spend a lot of time doing calculations and looking at data books, though the calculations are likely to be algebraic and the databook research of the "hmm, that looks good enough" sort.


rstofer:
There are hobbyists at all levels.  I have never worked a day in my life as an electronics engineer (I did consult on one project, back in the early '80s) and even my MSEE was done as a hobby.  I just like digital and that's the part of the sandbox I play in.  I wanted to know a lot about computers but electronics has always been a hobby.

I didn't care for analog, this math was too cumbersome and, back in the early '70s, we didn't have 'solvers' to help with the work.  Today we have fantastic tools and I'm spending a little more time with analog - notably, analog computing.  I struggled with differential equations in college but they are fun with an analog computer!  Of course, they are also solvable with MATLAB (and neatly with Simulink) and even FORTRAN.  Well, maybe not 'solvable', but they can definitely be viewed.

So, given a range of hobbyists, we need to settle in on "what is a beginner", "what is somewhat accomplished" and "what is over-the-top".  People can progress as far as they want but from the posts I read around here, most are at the "playing with Arduino" level.  This is good!  It takes quite a bit of effort to get some of those projects to work.  Then there is the possibility of modifying them for some other function.  The fact that example projects can be copied and pasted can be a real boon to education - if they are viewed in that light.  Otherwise, they are just a duplicate of somebody else's project.

For the newcomer, wanting to actually learn electronics as opposed to just doing the copy and paste thing, I would expect them to know DC circuits in about 6 months.  It could be much sooner, it could take longer, but for table stakes, I would say Ohm's Law, Kirchhoff's Laws, Thevenin and Norton should be well in hand within a few months. Pretty much the same as the first semester in EE school.   It just  doesn't take that long to go through the Khan Academy Electrical Engineering videos.  But there needs to be time at the breadboard and that will drag it out.  Personally, I learn very little from lectures.  I'm more of a hands on type of learner.  AC circuits would take another couple of months and then it's off to transistors, op amps and other more advanced topics.

Then there is the issue of "do we really need Kirchhoff's Laws (and the others?".  Well, now we get back to the concept of "learn electronics".  Are we learning to be capable of designing/understanding circuits or are we just learning the resistor color code?

Everybody makes their own choices.  I made mine a long time ago and saved electronics for my hobby and worked in electrical for my living.


With all the resources on the web, the beginner can go as far as they want and they can progress at their own rate.  Everything is out there for the taking.

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