Author Topic: How long should electronics last  (Read 4322 times)

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Online chris_leyson

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2017, 06:11:30 am »
Quote
Those LNK304 DC/DC converters seem to violently loose their chip package right often in Whirlpool devices
I'm going to to be testing a Power Integrations flyback in the new, hopefully the MOVs will do their job, we'll see.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2017, 10:07:31 am »
Those LNK304 DC/DC converters seem to violently loose their chip package right often in Whirlpool devices.
Is this a problem with the Whirlpool products, rather than the Power Integration device? I've seen customers use those Power Integrations devices in some high volume long life applications with pretty solid results. Solid enough that it was hard to displace them.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2017, 01:43:19 pm »
I didn't say having a water tank was odd. Read Brian's post I was responding to, which you removed. It's odd to have a steel hot water, which is heated directly by a gas flame. I've never seen that before!

Read line 1 of the features of this natural gaz water heater tank at this site:
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/atmospheric-vent
Or google 'glass lined water heaters'
With a quality glass lined tank and installation, you hot tap water is as clean to drink as your normal cold water, that is until enough of the glass lining fractures/dissolves (it's vapor deposited to only a few microns thick) over time and will still be ok as most tanks are stainless steel, but, the heating eventually begins to break this down.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 03:25:45 pm by BrianHG »
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Offline SeanB

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2017, 04:45:22 pm »
Those steel tanks with the glass lining typically just make it out of warranty before failing, despite having a sacrificial anode in there. They are not make out of stainless steel, just regular mild steel with a coating of glass fused to it. They suffer from pressure cycling crazing the glass, and are pretty much going to fail from the get go, especially as they are run at a high pressure.

To find a manufacturer that makes a non mild steel tank at any price other than insane is near impossible, though there are still a few around that make copper tanks, that essentially last nearly forever, but are limited in being gravity flow only.
 

Offline Seekonk

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2017, 07:07:22 pm »
This is getting way off topic, but if you replace the anode rod in a heater every 5 years the tank will easily last 40 years. If you pull yours out right now it is likely there is nothing there. This is only likely possible if when the heater is new you remove the anode rod and reseal it with a good non hardening thread sealant. Installers don't even try to unscrew anything from an old water heater.  Another tip. The cold water inlet has a plastic feed pipe inside. This takes cold feed water to the bottom of the tank.  These have a tendency to break off with age.  This causes you to run out of hot water quickly from feed water instantly mixing with hot.
 
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Offline SeanB

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2017, 07:44:55 pm »
I had a unit that was just out of warranty ( 5 years 1 month, thank you Kwikhot) and the element failed with leakage to the grounded casing. There was still half of the anode left, but that cold water baffle came out as white plastic powder and crumb as I undid the element from the bottom where it was mounted. New element in, new thermostat ( 50C instead of the as new setting of "just short of boil") plugged in and a little insulation to reduce standing loss, and the tank itself failed 6 months later, leaking from most likely the pipe stub welds rusting through, as the glaze is thinnest there. Put in a new one, which is even more plastic than the old one.

Scrap yards literally only take those at no payment or you pay them, as they spend a week there stripping the sleeves and insulation off them before compacting the 10m high pile into around 50 cubes of steel, and then have to pay for dumping the removed foam in a landfill site.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2017, 10:17:20 am »
I didn't say having a water tank was odd. Read Brian's post I was responding to, which you removed. It's odd to have a steel hot water, which is heated directly by a gas flame. I've never seen that before!

Read line 1 of the features of this natural gaz water heater tank at this site:
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/atmospheric-vent
Or google 'glass lined water heaters'
With a quality glass lined tank and installation, you hot tap water is as clean to drink as your normal cold water, that is until enough of the glass lining fractures/dissolves (it's vapor deposited to only a few microns thick) over time and will still be ok as most tanks are stainless steel, but, the heating eventually begins to break this down.
No, I've never seen one of those before. In the UK the water tank is normally separate from the boiler.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2017, 10:45:58 am »
The longest boiler guarantees I have seen are for 9 years.

The  most reliable brands are Worcester-Bosch and Vaillant.

Draw your own conclusions.
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Offline Simon

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2017, 10:53:17 pm »
I didn't say having a water tank was odd. Read Brian's post I was responding to, which you removed. It's odd to have a steel hot water, which is heated directly by a gas flame. I've never seen that before!

Read line 1 of the features of this natural gaz water heater tank at this site:
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/atmospheric-vent
Or google 'glass lined water heaters'
With a quality glass lined tank and installation, you hot tap water is as clean to drink as your normal cold water, that is until enough of the glass lining fractures/dissolves (it's vapor deposited to only a few microns thick) over time and will still be ok as most tanks are stainless steel, but, the heating eventually begins to break this down.



In the UK all plumbing including tanks is copper. We use plastic for pipes as well now.
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Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2017, 11:02:26 pm »
I didn't say having a water tank was odd. Read Brian's post I was responding to, which you removed. It's odd to have a steel hot water, which is heated directly by a gas flame. I've never seen that before!

Read line 1 of the features of this natural gaz water heater tank at this site:
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/atmospheric-vent
Or google 'glass lined water heaters'
With a quality glass lined tank and installation, you hot tap water is as clean to drink as your normal cold water, that is until enough of the glass lining fractures/dissolves (it's vapor deposited to only a few microns thick) over time and will still be ok as most tanks are stainless steel, but, the heating eventually begins to break this down.



In the UK all plumbing including tanks is copper. We use plastic for pipes as well now.
Most UK radiators are steel. Many houses still have galvanised steel header tanks, although the majority have been replaced. The incoming pipe in millions of houses is still lead.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2017, 11:54:40 pm »
I didn't say having a water tank was odd. Read Brian's post I was responding to, which you removed. It's odd to have a steel hot water, which is heated directly by a gas flame. I've never seen that before!

Read line 1 of the features of this natural gaz water heater tank at this site:
http://www.gsw-wh.com/en/products/atmospheric-vent
Or google 'glass lined water heaters'
With a quality glass lined tank and installation, you hot tap water is as clean to drink as your normal cold water, that is until enough of the glass lining fractures/dissolves (it's vapor deposited to only a few microns thick) over time and will still be ok as most tanks are stainless steel, but, the heating eventually begins to break this down.



In the UK all plumbing including tanks is copper. We use plastic for pipes as well now.
Most UK radiators are steel. Many houses still have galvanised steel header tanks, although the majority have been replaced. The incoming pipe in millions of houses is still lead.
Radiators work as a closed loop, so corrosion is less of an issue.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2017, 11:58:14 pm »
Most UK radiators are steel. Many houses still have galvanised steel header tanks, although the majority have been replaced. The incoming pipe in millions of houses is still lead.
Radiators work as a closed loop, so corrosion is less of an issue.
Corrosion is only a minor issue with radiators because there is corrosion inhibitor in the closed loop. Without that, the radiators rot through quite quickly. I guess if 100% of the heating loop were steel this wouldn't happen, but mix metals and one of them is going to fail fast.
 

Online SparkyFX

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2017, 12:37:19 am »
Is this a problem with the Whirlpool products, rather than the Power Integration device? I've seen customers use those Power Integrations devices in some high volume long life applications with pretty solid results. Solid enough that it was hard to displace them.
Hard to tell from a single sample in my case, but google "LNK304 repair kit" and the compatible device list gives you quite some impression.

Checked my photos of the PCB again, there is an intact looking MOV included in the circuit, even a non-aging SIOV type, so the cause might not be transients at all. Degrading related to overheating might be an issue, the machine has got an included 12h timer which i use quite often, so it is in operation (providing DC power) longer than just the one cycle.
 

Online Towger

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2018, 08:23:00 am »
In my experience 9 years is good for a 'modern' boiler's PCB.  The build quality of Potterton, Glowworm etc is to use the technical term 'shite'.

UPDATE:

PCB 2 died this morning.  A 400v capacitor let out the magic smoke and molten polystyrene. 

Life = 3 Years. The date on this board is 2011.

I installed PCB 3 tonight, same version (7) but 2016, different brand capacitors.

Symptoms: Heating started, but did not heat for long.  Over temp tripped.  Reset.  Restarted.  Pump did not appear to be running.  Assumed pump failed (original 20? years old).  Checked voltages.  No power going to pump.  Replaced PCB.  Wife happy again :-)


« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 08:26:37 am by Towger »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2018, 08:33:06 am »
How old is old? My water heater is a few years old and Ive been thinking about doing this (replacing the anode) now.. its maybe (guessing) five years old.. Its still a current model..

It still works fine.. no issues.. have not tried to remove it.

This is getting way off topic, but if you replace the anode rod in a heater every 5 years the tank will easily last 40 years. If you pull yours out right now it is likely there is nothing there. This is only likely possible if when the heater is new you remove the anode rod and reseal it with a good non hardening thread sealant. Installers don't even try to unscrew anything from an old water heater.  Another tip. The cold water inlet has a plastic feed pipe inside. This takes cold feed water to the bottom of the tank.  These have a tendency to break off with age.  This causes you to run out of hot water quickly from feed water instantly mixing with hot.
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Online paulca

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Re: How long should electronics last
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2018, 08:35:55 am »
This is a gas combi boiler, it heats both radiators for heating and hot water instantly for domestic use. The controller board looks brand new, like i say a thermistor would go straight to the uC so if it's saying that the fault is there then it must be the uC itself, one of the hardiest components surely?

Mine went bang about 2 years ago.  Dead, no status lights nothing.  Plumber replaced the board, showed me the old one.  It had a huge black charred mess that looked like it was close to actually catching fire, the board was nearly charred though.  I wasn't into electronics at the time so I have no idea what failed in such a horrible way.

Fire is not something you want near a gas boiler.  I can only assume the gas value fails shut.
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