Electronics > Beginners
How much more math do I need to study???
GK:
--- Quote from: kasumyku on January 23, 2013, 11:20:12 pm ---Also instead of me doing all these extra math searches and more math books spendings,
--- End quote ---
Should you ever decide to progress with your studies beyond the technician level, you will need calculus. Here is a book that is free; probably the best introduction to calculus around:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33283/33283-pdf.pdf
Bored@Work:
So herewe go again.
It is totally unpredictable if you later need math again and what kind of math. The worst thing that can happen to you is to get caught totally off-guard in a job where you suddenly need some math - the "wrong kind".
Examples of math I quickly had to (re-)learn in my job as an engineer in the last few years:
Some ugly statistic, in particular a special discrete distribution, because we had to distribute some activities in a machine according to that distribution.
Parts of weighted graph theory, because we used that to model a specific behavior of one of our systems. The actual calculations were done in a Matlab-like software. But in order to understand how to build realistic model we first had to understood the theory.
Geo location stuff. Yes, we use a library to convert all different kinds of coordinate systems (and hell, there are a lot). But to understand the nature and difficulty of the problem and what was relevant for our task I had to learn at least some basics. Once I knew what we were in I managed to get an OK from my management to hire outside consultancy. Yes, I used math to drive a management decision. To give you an idea, here is what Daveland has to say about how they figure out where stuff is in Australia http://www.icsm.gov.au/gda/tech.html And almost every country in the world has multiple own systems. And unfortunately there are sometimes no analytic solutions to transform coordinates from one system to the other.
So never say never. Tomorrow your boss might give you a task requiring math. And then you are happy that you were once allowed to cut your teeth on the stuff they ask you to do during your studies.
Christe4nM:
I'd second that. I find that knowing your math helps to the occasional do quick calculations yourself, but moreover helps to gain understanding of the structures behind the subject. Now that might not apply to everyone, since anyone could have their own way of learning. Yet to me I feel I 'get' my electronics subject better when I can figure out why formula's and calculations are the way they are. Not so say that it's limited to that, just that math is an important structure laying underneath electronics.
I don't think I would've understand control systems, frequency analysis & plots (as an example) fully without first getting through the (advanced) math. (Like linear differential equations, LaPlace transformations etc.) Then again YMMV.
Now if you don't want to go that deep, know that math can still be of aid in knowing when a computer is lying to you or not. I know for a fact that Bob Pease threw a computer from Linear's rooftop when he found the spice simulation providing incorrect results. That might had to do more with his experience in electronics vs the simulation than with math though ;)
On the other hand, I think learning math in high school or any level above, is also used as a way to train abstract thinking. Or maybe they just use it to test who is smart enough or something alike? (Would be preposterous) I don't know, "your guess is as good as mine"
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Bored@Work on January 24, 2013, 07:02:48 am ---So herewe go again.
It is totally unpredictable if you later need math again and what kind of math. The worst thing that can happen to you is to get caught totally off-guard in a job where you suddenly need some math - the "wrong kind".
Examples of math I quickly had to (re-)learn in my job as an engineer in the last few years:
Some ugly statistic, in particular a special discrete distribution, because we had to distribute some activities in a machine according to that distribution.
Parts of weighted graph theory, because we used that to model a specific behavior of one of our systems. The actual calculations were done in a Matlab-like software. But in order to understand how to build realistic model we first had to understood the theory.
Geo location stuff. Yes, we use a library to convert all different kinds of coordinate systems (and hell, there are a lot). But to understand the nature and difficulty of the problem and what was relevant for our task I had to learn at least some basics. Once I knew what we were in I managed to get an OK from my management to hire outside consultancy. Yes, I used math to drive a management decision. To give you an idea, here is what Daveland has to say about how they figure out where stuff is in Australia http://www.icsm.gov.au/gda/tech.html And almost every country in the world has multiple own systems. And unfortunately there are sometimes no analytic solutions to transform coordinates from one system to the other.
So never say never. Tomorrow your boss might give you a task requiring math. And then you are happy that you were once allowed to cut your teeth on the stuff they ask you to do during your studies.
--- End quote ---
Precisely right on all counts.
The OP should be learning what tools are available, when to use them, and how to learn to use a tool they haven't used before.
After they have that understanding they will be in a good position to
* understand what is happening (in simulation/modelling/measurement) so they can predict causes and effect
* know what they don't know
* which claims (technical, sales, management, etc) can/can't be justified
* know where the dragons lie, so they can avoid being bitten Ignore statements like "you won't need X". That's a "misspelling" of "I haven't needed X (yet)", or "I never understood X".
Analogy: nurses don't need to understand the theory of everything that goes on in the body, but doctors do. Who do you want to diagnose you and want to define a course of treatment? Who do you want to take a blood sample? Doctors and nurses different and complementary, and both are necessary.
dmills:
Trig and calculus are IMHO at least useful, and trig comes from geometry, so....
You will absolutely need complex numbers, so at least the beginnings of vector spaces.
AC networks are hard to really understand without trig, and phasors are much easier to understand once you really get Eulers identity (Which comes from Complex analysis and finite dimensional vector spaces).
Matrix methods are sometimes by far the easiest way to solve a network, which is where linear algebra and Gauss Jordan elimination come in.
The Lapalace transform is profoundly useful for making systems of differential equations more tractable (There are simple geometric rules about pole/zero locations that tell you useful things about stability), which (Like the Fourier transform) comes from basis functions.
It is less about being able to do the maths day to day (I would have to hit the books to remember how to integrate F(x)G(x) between limits these days), as being able to recognise what is going on.
One thing to make sure is that you have the fundamentals down, it is amazing how missing some little piece of basic maths can make things very, very confusing in a later class.
Stats is something I must get better at, but sometimes even the little I do know is very useful.
For doing the mathematics in the real world, we have computers, but recognising the required maths for a given desired result, that is still a human task.
Regards, Dan.
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